Toxic friend?

[ToyBoat]

Have namechanged in case she reads this!

Right, I have a friend of about 5 years. We both, I think, would consider us very close friends. She has been extremely supportive to me in the past, practically and emotionally. And I have helped her when needed, of course.

We can get on brilliantly.

BUT....she can be extremely scathing of things that worry me (and other people) that wouldn't worry her. She knows she does this, and occassionally apologises for it. But when she does it, I feel very belittled and stupid; and frustrated and angry with her! I find myself worried when I need to tell her something and spend ages trying to work out a way to say it that might make her not respond in her scathing, incredulous way.

There have also been times when, considering hwo close we are, she has done things that have felt very disloyal. For instance, I had another friend who treated me very badly. Friend A was brilliantly supportive at first...and then became very good friends with Friend B herself and now has become rather dismissive of my hurt feelings whenever Friend B does more mean things. I obviously wouldn't' have expected any of my friends to do a kind of 'an enemy of ToyBoat is an enemy of me' thing, but it felt very disloyal that she was suddenly bestest of friends with someone who had hurt me so badly.

I'm aware I sound like a real victim - I really am not a pathetic person normally! Anyway, WWYD in this sort of situation? A great friend, who can make me feel very uncomfortable and unhappy and does so over and over again - would you just stop seeing them so much and let the friendship fade away a bit? Or would you perservere? Or does anyone have any other words of wisdom!?

Anyone?

I have a friend like this, but when you say it out loud it sounds so silly, doesn't it?
But yes , we get on well and she has been a dear friend when I needed her.
She also has no problem directly contradicting me or dismissing me.
I deal with it by meeting for coffees etc not taking much notice and just developing a thick skin really.

Our approach to parenting is completely different I find I am much more strict with mine and that has caused problems so I restrict the time that our dcs spend together.
Its sad but I am too old for peer pressure! Go your own way and have the courage of your convictions.

I really am very good at not following the crowd - have madea lot of decisions that are 'non-comformist'. I would not change what I do because of how she speaks to me. It's more how it makes me feel.

If it really makes you feel that bad then I would have no problem letting it fizzle out to be honest.
The thing with the third friend is difficult- how could she NOT realise how that makes you feel?

I think you might find a way to continue being friends and enjoying her good bits if you stop expecting a different reaction from her each time you share some of your fears.
Perhaps you can reframe the relationship a little more (at least in your own mind) by realising that she can't be the friend you need when you need to share some of these things. Do you have/can you find other people to share these with?

Yes I do, Lucy. It's difficult, because it's often just general chit chat like 'I was really nervous driving last night in the ice' and she'd respond with something like 'why!? I've driven in ice like that thousands of times and I'm never scared!'. If she's in that sort of impatient mood, you can't say anything to her without her reacting to you like she thinks you're a total wussy thicko.

I do try and distance myself when she's going through one of these phases, but it's easier said than done without it looking like I'm actively avoiding her.

I had a friend who seemed like a good friend until I realise that she was using every opportunity to put me down, especially in front of other people. I turned a blind eye to it for a while but in the end I had to let the friendship go as it was very hurtful. I also found out that she was bad mouthing me to other people and i ended up losing ALL my friends as they all believed her! Hurt enormously at the time but sometimes it's best to let go of these unhealthy relationships.

I think you should have a go at talking to her about it and be really honest about how it makes you feel. If nothing changes then I would dump her. I'd also take up a hobby or evening class or something to broaden your social circle so that you don't feel the gap so much. I wish I had done that as I ended up really lonely.

I have a really good social circle actually, monkey, so I'm ok on that front. I guess it's my sense of loyalty to someone who has been a good friend that stops me stop seeing her alone completely...and the fact that our children are very good friends. And she can be very good company. She is also very scathing and belittling to her husband, in public too, which is very uncomfortable to see.

Gosh! I'm surprised by how much of a cow this thread makes her out to be! She's not, really...or is she? I don't know! She tends to be a better friend when I'm in need of friends, and a rather shit one when I'm not. Is this about her needing to feel needed? Her other very close friend is someone who has a very great need for practical support, for various reasons.

I feel at this stage of my life that friends should make your life easier not harder!
I feel the same about my friend- I know that she's not a cow but she can do or say cow-like things.
Sometimes I wonder does she actually like me at all? So I have put some distance between us because really life is too short.

Yes, I'm coming round to that way of thinking, seanbonbon, after another episode this morning.

Gosh, friendships can be so complicated can't they. I've had this sort of reaction to a friend. The friendship started to feel unpleasant, I came away from time with her feeling more and more defensive and we eventually 'broke up'. Still not entirely sure how or why it started to feel so poisonous, what caused it, how much of it was me etc. I'd never had this problem before so the bust up was horrid. The only advice I can give is to take your time, spend lots of time with neutral friends so you can compare how interactions with her differ and keep in mind these situations are a normal part of life. I felt like a failure that I couldn't work out how to fix it but that was that.

Ah, sorry to hear that. If it gets to the point where you are coming away from her feeling worse instead of better then you are right to protect yourself. Is she like this with anyone else?

Having severed a couple of friendships in my life, I know it can feel really unpleasant. The strange thing is that if a DP does things that make us feel bad we (should) say "when you do that it makes me feel like this, so please don't", and if they're worth being with they take on board what you've said and change. Whereas it's almost impossible to do the same thing to a friend. Saying "I don't like you doing this so I want you to change" seems an acceptable thing to ask of a partner but not of a friend. When I've tried with 2 different people, both times the response has been "well you're not so perfect yourself, so screw you", and the death of a friendship.

This friend sounds, from the little you've said of her, to be exactly the kind of person who will put you down for having the audacity to point out her faults. So I think it may be time to cut your losses, and start introducing some distance.

I have a friend that occasionally I behave towards as you have described.

From my point of view she telephones me constantly to "talk". On the day of the week I don't work she can phone up to 4 or 5 times. IMO she blows up small issues in to big ones and needs constantly reassuring. Therefore I can on occassion be dismissive of her worries. I have got more dismissive over the last 12 months.

Just another point of view - feel free to ignore.

Sean - yes she is, but mostly with people close to her - like she can't be bothered to hide her irritation with people she is close to, but does with people she wants to make an impression on IYSWIM. She's really horrid to her husband sometimes and she admits it too!

I take on board what you're saying, Lisa, and I care about her enough not to want to upset her by challenging her about it. It's not something she would ever change, whether I said something or not, I don't think!

Sonnet - it's not like that, but thanks for the input! This is really little things, even things mentioned in passing. Certainly not me going 'oh gosh, this is a big thing, must ring so and so for help'. I can see how that would be very draining! I'm trying to think of an example - ok, trying to work out how to make a recipe when I'm missing an ingredient, and just saying as I'm doing it 'oh dear, I haven't got this...how will I get some in time' and her saying dismissively 'well I don't know what the problem is, just use...' and barely succeeding in not adding 'you stupid twit, I would have known exactly what to do and wouldn't have been in the slightest bit worried'.