Is my DH sabotaging our relationship? I just can't work it out.

[loves2cycle]

I really can't work out where my and DH are going wrong or how to improve things between us.

We are married 11yrs and have 2 DSs. About a year ago DH developed a close friendship with a work colleague and after coming on here for advice, I started calling it an emotional affair and issued an ultimatum to him that he either take me seriously about this EA or I would leave him.

He changed hugely after being overwhelmingly distressed at the thought of losing me. So lots of his disrespectful behaviours went, he no longer goes out drinking, no non-work contact with OW, he engages much better and more calmly with DSs and he made a open ended commitment to couple counselling - so lots of signs of commitment to working on our relationship. (He has never seen it as an EA and says I am grossly exaggerating when I use that term, but he does admit it was inappropriate of him and hurtful to me.)

In our couple sessions, he is often distressed, in tears and shaken afterwards by what he is learning about himself (he was physically abused by his father and his mother did very little to help). I, on the other hand, find a voice to say what I want to say and feel empowered and strong. I find it very hard to be open and honest about relationship stuff with DH. I don't know why, I find it easy to express positive happy emotions and hug, kiss people a lot, but negative emotions I find very hard to express. And the counsellor has really helped me to see that I must be more open with DH and not be fearful of him being angry. We are both reading a book about anger and DH is trying to control his anger and seems to be doing well. We also think he has depression but this is not diagnosed.

OK so I have been open recently about the type of intimacy that I love, that leads me to feeling close to DH and therefore interested in sex. So after me expressing that he did some of the things for a while, and things were good between us, then his efforts sort of fizzled out and we're back to what he seems to regard as 'normal' intimacy, but I regard as too distant.

So my issue today is that last night he came home very stressed from work. I knew he would be, as this is a very challenging week for him. So I was quiet I suppose but trying to be supportive by just pottering along, not raising any contentious issues. I sorted the boys as I could see he was really tired. He snapped at me a couple of times during the evening, which made me sort of retreat into myself. I wasn't up for an argument so just left it and went off to bed. He came up, we had a brief chat and turned off the lights. Then he started stroking my bum which I took to mean he wanted to have sex. But I didn't after our tense evening, so I turned away and said goodnight. He was bothered and said he wanted to be close to me and I was clearly not interested. Then he started saying he didn't think I loved him in the way he wanted to be loved. I said I thought we were both trying really hard to improve our relationship through our couple counselling, he said very crossly that he disagreed about that - think he meant he disagreed that I was trying hard. So I said nothing else and went to sleep.

But I'm now wondering if he is actively avoiding intimacy and sabotaging our relationship. It is like he is choosing to act in a cranky way, in a way he knows I hate and that he knows will push a wedge between us. Yet when we talk of splitting up he is distraught to the extent that I would worry about his mental health if we parted.

I don't know why he is doing this or what to do about it.

Do you think maybe he might be right in some small way? You seem to think that it is he who has a problem and he who should be making the effort. What are you really doing to improve things? Might be worth bringing up at the next counselling session?

Well I need a bot if a relaity check so not going to flame you myself!

You are right in that I am making him jump htorugh hoops. He says he is trying to address my issues with our relationship but feels like it is never going to be enough for me. And that is becasue I have spend years bottling it up and not being open. So I accept responsibility for the place we're in now to some extent.

But surely, if he knows I need intimacy to feel close to him, he should have more control over his emotions. An apology and a recognition that he was cranky, would have got him a long way.

Sorry for typing errors - need fingerless gloves today!

I think he had a shit day, took it out on you a bit, then felt sad about that, and instead of apologising in a way that you would have responded well to, apologised in a way that HE would have responded to.

Of course it's upsetting for you but don't lose sight of the progress you are making. It's really easy to focus on small setbacks like this but let's face it we all have evenings where we come home and act like a prat (I know I do).

You've also said that his behaviour has changed hugely, that he is being a better parent, that he is going to counselling - this is all good & worth focusing on.

It sounds like the intimacy stuff was initially working for you but that possibly he didn't realise this and therefore became disheartened. Can you try saying something like "that time we did such-and-such was really great, I really enjoyed it, then we had top sex, hooray for us, let's do that again sometime"?

Did he maybe think YOU were cranky?
He came home from a really hard day at work, and you ignored him and kept out of his way? You retreated into yourself and busied yourself with the kids. Maybe HE wanted intimacy? Maybe he wanted other support than you staying away from him?
It seems to me that YOU were sabotaging your relationship the entire evening after he got home, and he might have been upset due to this. Then he was trying to be intimate, and you continued to cold shoulder him, putting the blame on him and his behaviour.
Can he do ANYTHING right?

Yes, he had had a shit day and he should be allowed to have those sort of days like everyone else. Maybe I should have been more supportive.

BUT, he is distant and it's wierd because when he's not distant, when he's close, we get on so well and have great sex. I would have thought that would be enough of an incentive to get a grip on your own emotions. He also seems to love the non-sexual side of us being close - a bit of teasing, holding hands, joking etc.

I don't know what to do dueling to work on things more than I am. I really don't. He is depressed and I am trying to keep myself and the boys positive and upbeat, but it is hard and draining when I seem to get so little back.

DO bear in mind that if a couple are having counselling and it is working then the problems in the relationship are things that mean both partners have to make an effort and acknowledge that sometimes they are in the wrong. It's not just a matter of him having to earn your forgiveness and do everything you say in order to keep you.
Because it does sound like both of you were a bit in the wrong last night - hey, this happens. Counselling will not make a relationship so perfect that you never argue, or are never grumpy or unreasonalbe or selfish again. Everyone behaves a bit badly sometimes, but in a healthy relationship you accept it, apologise when necessary and move on.

OK so maybe I need to give more and not have unrealistic expectations. This 'working on our relationship' is a slow process and I am feeling pissed off today and impatient.

But I do need to recognise the efforts he has made more, and tell him. And I need to allow him more freedom to have cranky days without me then throwing in the towel in a knee jerk way.

Think I need to start off with an apology.

I think, sometimes the problem with counselling can be that you start over-analysing yourself and your partner in your everyday life. You focus SO much on working with your relationship you forget to just LIVE and BE.

If you want intimacy, GIVE some. The natural way to act if he had a hard day might be to acknowledge it, go give him a hug, or just a pat on the shoulder, and ask how he is doing, and a smile.

I think he was just having a bad day. But I think you need to be aware of two things: firstly, that counselling can be really hard if you've never had it before and sometimes you hate it because it's upsetting and 2) he's working through his own issues and may come to some conclusions about the relationship that might not necessarily be the ones you want him to come to. You may think that the point of counselling is to save your marriage but it's actually to make both people realise what they want and there is a chance that won't be the same thing.

However I think he was just having a bad day.

Yes you're right quintessential. Shit. Maybe I did sabotage things and make it impossible for him to let off steam and get closeness from me. I think I did. I was kind of feeling resentful before he even walked in as he had warned me he was feeling stressed, so I was sort of on edge and thinking 'why is it always about his emotions?' so I probably reacted coldly.

OK I have just sent him email with an apology. I can't phone him till this evening. I just apologised with no excuses, just an apology. Hope we can get back on track.

I am sure you can.
Just open up to him tonight about why you wanted to give him space, and it might not have been the right thing to do.

Not sure about this.....He sounds distant and doesn't seem to accept the EA side of things. Most people that get involved in a EA are underinvested in the relationship in the first place.

It could be that he is sabataging the relstionship....what reassurances have you got that the EA is over, as he is still seeing OW at work?

You're right chateau that counselling is hard and in ways I had never imagined.

I am having to face being more assertive with my mother for one and that is tough for me. I really didn't expect that to come out of counselling but that came from my DH realising how much my lack of assertiveness with her, bothers him. So now I have to try and change 40-odd years of learned behaviour towards her and it's hard and upsetting for me. So we both have 'issues'.

I think we both want the same thing though - to stay together.

I crave intimacy too and my exh used to be very distant with me.

But in a way what you are describing sounds quite forced and despite my liking intimacy if my partner kept asking me for it and badgering me I think I would withdraw.

I agree with counselling too and went to Relate (alone unfortunately) but I also think that counselling can be draining and engaging in counselling speak constantly can be wearing - as another poster said real life intervenes.

Well pinkhair I know he has placed distance between himself and OW and as I had access to his blackberry without him knowing, I could see messages that indicated to me, he was distancing himself.

She now has a boyfriend and he doesn't talk about her in an odd way, quite a benign way infact, whereas it used to be 'odd'.

I think it was a close, flirty friendship, rather than that they had sexual contact.

During the 'friendship' he was very under-invested in our relationship and the family. He was frequently angry to me and DS1 and shit to live with. BUT I can't hold that against him indefinately, I have to move on from that.

And maybe and perhaps I am stating the bleeding obvious here - you can achieve different levels of intimacy with different people so unfortunately if you are married (as I was) to a more closed person you aren't going to get as much as you may want IYWIM

It all sounds a bit forced - Im probably really too jaded and cynical to be posting here - having given more than enough in my marriage I would only now get together with someone where I felt we had a really natural connnection - ie I can never go into a relationship again where its really such hard work.

You both sound like you are working really hard on yourselves and your relationship which is great.

You are expecting him to deal with him emotions but after a bad day/week he comes home and gets nothing from you - perhaps he wanted to moan and shout and get cross about his day - that IS allowed sometimes as long as that anger is against you IYSWIM

He then gets into bed and thinks maybe Ive been uptight tonight lets have a cuddle and sex (I know she likes and wants that)and bit of pillow talk and she gets cross and goes to sleep

He cant really win! Go bit easier on yourself and him - no relationship is perfect and its never going to be

I don't frequently ask him for intimacy sincitylover as I agree that would be too forced.

But in one of our 'being open sessions', I told him I used to love, and now missed, things like taking a bath together on a sunday night, sitting on sofa together cuddled up, teasing each other, passing compliments - those sort of things. He then started doing them and we were close again. But then he started finding excuses/stopped doing them. There is a definate distance between us and I don't always want it to be me that bridges the distance. I also don't want to be keeping scores, BUT surely he should be meeting me halfway?

But then I wonder if his depression prevents him being intimate and I want to be supportive if that's the case.

I would agree sincitylover about going into a new relationship and being wary of it being such hard work.

But when we were first together, there was no 'work' involved, we were close, very sexual, loving and totally committed to each other. The hard work has only come in the last year or so.

And sometimes I feel guilty posting here like this, being disloyal to DH and not having more faith that it will all settle down and be fine again.

He has replied to my email with an apology of his own and desire to communicate better. He said he needed things from me last night that he didn't get and he should have been open about this rather than cross.

Think we are both pretty shit at communicating and just clashed last night.

think the last half of your sentence OP should be:

"... but then today we both made an effort to communicate and now we both feel a bit better."

Don't miss out the good things :)

Sorry if that is a little sickmaking. It must be the time of year, I am feeling uncharacteristically optimistic today.

I remember your threads L2C/W.

I was going to say actually it sounds like you are avoiding intimacy. I personally need the full-on intimacy that sex delivers. He felt rejected by you. That's not to say you had to lie back and think of England!

Thanks grumpla - maybe what I need is optimism as you're right we have gone someway today to sort this. He is away till late thurs night but I've just bought him new CD from one of his fav bands as another "building bridges" thing. Was trying to think of ways he likes to express emotion and music would be high on his list.

Yes queefer I don't want to lie back and think of England as that really would be false. Partic last night when I felt the distance so acutely. But I do need to make sure I'm not the one sabotaging things by not allowing intimacy.

Thank you for all responses. This was really very helpful for me.