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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help! Shocked and Hurt

104 replies

UpDownAndAround · 06/12/2010 17:11

I have name changed for this post.

DP and I have been together for six years. I found this e-mail open on his computer while he went out to run a few errands. It was a "reminder" from a friend of his who he is always hanging around. I'm afraid I've been a total sucker for this horrible behavior. I am a very self confident person and never was bothered by him being a bit flirty with other women or having women friends but now I feel betrayed that there was some sort of code. How would you react to this or respond? Should I tell him I found this horrid list? It sounds cruel and awful. We have had a v. good relationship until the last few months - now I think he is getting ready for the last "rule." This is heartbreaking to me!

Here is what the e-mail said:

II. Make her jealous
Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be ?The One? or the center of a man?s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man?s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman?s integrity and not lie to her that she is ?your everything?. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

IV. Don?t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there? strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

V. Adhere to the golden ratio
Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold ? it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

VI. Keep her guessing
True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don?t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight ? his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you?re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Never allow yourself to be a ?kept man?. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

VIII. Say you?re sorry only when absolutely necessary
Do not say you?re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words ?I?m sorry.? Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say ?Mistakes were made? or tell her you ?feel bad? about what you did. You are granted two freebie ?I?m sorry"s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.

IX. Connect with her emotions
Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman?s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendezvous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You?re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You?re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

X. Ignore her beauty
The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle ? through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself ?she?s interesting? or ?she might be worth getting to know?. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren?t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don?t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.

XI. Be irrationally self-confident
No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog?s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don?t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.

XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don?t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don?t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dance floor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.

XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don?t let a woman?s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don?t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.

XV. Maintain your state control
You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don?t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.

OP posts:
ItalianLady · 06/12/2010 17:44

Why not just ask him?

HowTheGrokeStoleChristmas · 06/12/2010 17:44

Yes it is total twaddle. Do Google Pick Up Artist forum though, it's depressingly funny.

GraceAwayInAManger · 06/12/2010 17:47

No, it's the men's version of The Rules. Here. It's plainly gobshite, just like The Rules ... though, come to think of it, a couple would probably get along quite well together if they were each following their 'bibles' Xmas Hmm

My guess, OP, is that your DP has told his mate he's concerned about your relationship - and the mate, being currently a fan of the Commandments, sent them in a well-meant (if stupid) effort to be helpful.

There's no reason why you shouldn't tell him you saw it - you weren't doing anything wrong - and ask [a] if his poor schmuck of a friend actually beleives this tripe, and [b] is he worried about your relationship?

hk78 · 06/12/2010 17:48

omg I googled sixteen commandments of poon and found this forum for saddos

www.seductionism.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=227

and there's a section called 'sex, relationships and intamacy' (their spelling)Grin

op, just say you've had the same email just so you've got a chance to talk about it and see what his attitude is towards this crap.

DuelingFanjo · 06/12/2010 17:48

It is something which gets sent round to be honest.

Like someone else said it's called the the sixteen commandments of poon and it's likely his mate has just sent it as a chain mail.

believeyourtruth · 06/12/2010 17:53

If it was open, and you are not normally in the habit of checking his emails, and you say that, until recently, you have always had a good relationship, just talk to him about it instead of worrying.

It makes me feel quite sick (recognise behaviour).

believeyourtruth · 06/12/2010 17:54

Just talk to him. End of story.

UpDownAndAround · 06/12/2010 17:55

Was just browsing the Poon link. Ahhhhhhh!

What seriously destructive dorks. Now I feel like as a woman I should open other people's women's eyes to the fact that this exists.

I'm 34 years old and never knew this existed or that people wanted to act this way. And my DP is 42!

I think I will say I received the same e-mail from someone (even if that does look a bit suspicious considering I'm female) and make it look ridiculous.

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 18:04

Troll was what sprang to mind, but you do actually sound like a real poster... I am just so taken aback that 'one of ours' is living with and pregnant to a complete and utter wanker - if he is indeed following this set of 'rules'.

I would pack myself a bag.

I would tell him that I have read it.

When he kicks off about you reading his emails, tell him to shut up and focus on what you are saying, he can have his privacy tanty after he tells you why he has that shit.

Unless he says 'I don't know why that twat sent me that shit - I was going to tell him not to be suck a fuckwit and to stop sending crap like that'..... then I would take the bag, go to my friends and tell him I/He would be moving out tomorrow/this weekend.

Believeyourtruth - you are going through a rough patch as well aren't you? Do you think you partner has been reading/following this shit too?

booyhohoho · 06/12/2010 18:05

OP i would just tell him straight you read the email as it was left open. i can't abide game playing in relationships. be upfront. if you are a shit liar he will know where you read it anyway and that will put you on teh back foot. just be honest.

"what is that email from X about?"
him "you read my emails????"
you" yeah, you left it open. what is it all about?"
and then he will either go off on one about you reading his email, which will tell you he has something to hide or he will answer you straight saying it was just some daft circular that X thought he would like and what a pratt X is, ha ha ha.

ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 18:06

He is 42 - 42 ?? Do some of them never grow up???

ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 18:07
booyhohoho · 06/12/2010 18:10
Grin

i think it is a case of us both being somewhere on a circle of opinion and sometimes we disagree so much we actually go full circle and meet each other going teh otehr way!!

CommanderDrool · 06/12/2010 18:17

i would read bits out and laugh hysterically at them in front of him

spidookly · 06/12/2010 18:17

This is just a stupid, misogynistic chainmail.

But if it reminds you of ways your DP behaves then you have a problem even if he doesn't subscribe to this shit.

The becoming unrecognisable now you're pregnant thing is worrying.

I would deal with that and ignore the e-mail. He's not responsible for what people send him.

Or else I'd be secretly into uplifting ditties with pictures of cute puppies.

UpDownAndAround · 06/12/2010 18:44

Hmmm.

I think the e-mail does bother me because I can recognize a few of the behaviors in my DP - that is obviously troubling.

Also, it's a difficult time for me being pregnant and for him to seem more and more detached. I've been so ill the last two months.

Packing a bag and leaving him because of this e-mail seems daft, but I do get the point.

I'll confront him about it.

Thank you for your advice. I know it's a dumb chain e-mail but I just hope it is not a sign of things to come.

OP posts:
booyhohoho · 06/12/2010 19:59

well you know yourself OP the email is one thing but you clearly had a problem before it existed so you need to work out how to adress that aswell. good luck.

merryxmaswidow · 06/12/2010 21:13

Print it out, show it to him stating what kind of men read this tripe, they must be really stupid emotionally insecure men to believe such utter drivel and if you ever thought he behaved like that you would be out the door.

see how he responds

StuffingGoldBrass · 06/12/2010 22:13

Well some of the behaviours listed in that pile of crap are within the spectrum of normal human behaviour, you know. People do act in selfish, unkind, silly ways sometimes. That your H occasionally behaves like an entitled sexist pig doesn't mean he is doing so as part of some cunning masterplan - it just means that, at those times, he is being selfish and unkind.
YOu might be better off concentrating more on those particular behaviours your DH engages in which annoy you, not worrying about a silly spam email, even though it is possible that the friend who sent it is a male supremacist knob (ie a complete loser) who believes that This Method Will Work On Any Woman.

ChippingIn · 06/12/2010 23:13

You wouldn't be leaving because of an email though would you - you would be leaving because he believes this shit to be right (if he doesn't say otherwise). There is no way I could live under the same roof, let alone be in a relationship, with someone who thought there was any merit in this??

MrsTedHughes · 06/12/2010 23:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

booyhohoho · 06/12/2010 23:26

mrstedhughes nobody is saying her DH has evil intentions Hmm. you say maybe it gives him confidence. i would not want to be anywhere near a man who derived his confidence from putting those rules into practise. far rather be with a man who gets confidence from within rather than from putting another person down, playing games with them, toying with their emotions, withholding affection etc.

MrsTedHughes · 06/12/2010 23:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 06/12/2010 23:35

I think the e-mail does bother me because I can recognize a few of the behaviors in my DP - that is obviously troubling

this is your problem, not some twatty email from some pillock mate of his

If he is acting in any of those ways, you may have a problem. Many abusive men start upping the ante once their partner is pregnant. It is absolutely typical, to get you more dependent on keeping them sweet, you will gradually overlook increasingly unsubtle crossing of boundaries.

Call him on his behaviour. And do it soon. If you have to tell him you read his email, so be it.

Better to be seen as a nosy woman, than brush it under the carpet until you get to the point you don't know what a good relationship looks like any more.

Good luck x

booyhohoho · 06/12/2010 23:42

listen to AF. she is always spot on with her advice.