Feeling very sad and selfish

[ABird]

There seems to be lots of threads at the moment about feeling sad. Perhaps it's the time of the year?

I am a regular, but have namechanged for this as someone I know has tracked me down onto here and I feel really uncomfortable with her knowing the amount of personal information I am probably about to share.

My DH has a very serious illness. We have two little DC. Most of the time I get on with our lives, making sure the DC are ok and doing everything I can to make sure they have everything they need, are kept stimulated, etc. I also do all that I can for DH to make sure he is as comfortable as he can be.

But it's so fucking hard. Harder than I ever thought would be. DH and I no longer have a sex life because of his illness. I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing or if maybe we could get some help. He doesn't appear to be too concerned about it at the moment. And I can't blame him! He is very ill, that's the last thing he probably feels like. And I am such a selfish bitch for even thinking about it. But I feel so sad about it. It used to be a big part of our lives, but it has now gone. As has most other forms of intimacy. We give each other the odd hug, but that's it really.

I am really struggling getting through the day with the DC. I feel there is no let up for me. I do have a little bit of help at home, and in the main I love looking after the DC (whom I adore), but the grind of it gets me down sometimes, especially in the everning time when it seems to go on and on - DH used to always do bathtimes, but is no longer able to.

See, what a bitch. DH is likely to die in the next few years. There, I have said it (I never dare to even think that most of the time). I love him so much, the DC love him so much. And I know I'm going to lose him. I just cannot bear the thought. And at the same time, I am being a selfish cow worrying that I'm not getting any.

Sat here in tears now. What the fuck am I going to do? What a mess. Why does it have to be like this? I don't even know why I'm posting other than to offload. Sorry.

ABird - I am so glad that you are taking steps to help yourself here and to the core that someone thinks it appropriate to be spiteful to you at this time!

Can I also suggest that you talk to the Penny Brohn centre in Bristol - they are very helpful in additional ways in which to help ease the problems of cancer. They are a complementary health centre BUT the clue is in the word "complementary" - they will never go against the medical treatment of your DH, they will only offer additional things that may benefit. Up to you entirely.

Good luck with the counsellor - remember that it is your time to let it all out, regardless.

I feel so relieved that your GP offered support and some help, Abird! And thank you for your kind reply - honestly, you've got so much on your plate, it's way beyond the call to answer a small forum post so generously :)

Which is a long way of saying: you really are lovely, and your personal 'balance' will bring you what you need. But maybe you need to start rationing your output?! In that context, well done for sorting a lift on Friday! Yes, you need time to hang loose (showing my age) properly :)

As they say on the planes: secure your own oxygen before helping others. Perfectly rational.

Un-mumsnetty hugs xxx

Thumb. Thank you so, so much for that link. I have just had a quick look though and it sounds brilliant. I think DH would be very open to it too.

And I plan to let it all out with the counsellor, believe me!

xposts Grace. It really is no sweat (showing my age ) to reply to people. Over the last few months I have found the kindness of strangers to be overwhelming at times. One thing I can do a lot is talk (or in this instance, type). It helps. And if someone has been kind enough to try to help me, I like to say thank you and acknowledge their post. It'd be rude not to!

ABird, no problem. this book might be of use to you as well - a friend of mine with breast cancer for the second time recommended it (she's only 46) as being very useful.

There are no guarantees - but I always look at it like this - you do whatever you can to try, and then you know you've done your best. If it works, that's brilliant - if it doesn't, you've still tried your hardest.

I would just like to add one thing here re. complementary therapy (and I know this probably isn't the place but it might help if anyone brings it up) - when John Diamond had cancer, he tried several different holistic therapies and panned them all, saying they were all snake oil merchants and a bunch of hokey - he wrote the book Snake Oil about his experiences. His cancer (throat, I think) recurred and finally got him - but (and this is the important thing) - he never stopped smoking. So he never gave the other therapies a chance while he was still increasing his cancerous potential on a daily basis.

Thank you for the link, it looks an interesting read. Have just ordered it.

I think John Diamond did have throat cancer. I cannot imagine how anyone would choose to continue smoking once cancer has been diagnosed, most especially if you have young children. Why would you want to make 100% certain that you are going to rob your children of a father?

I have shown DH the website you linked to earlier and he is very interested. Coincidently, his father used to play cricket for that village, so DH spent many a Saturday & Sunday there as a child!

DH is very into the power of positive thinking and to do everything in your power to help yourself. He's been really supportive of me getting some counselling and I think he will be giving the clinic a call in the next day or so.

DH is now booked on to a 2 day course at the clinic at the beginning of January.

Thumbwitch, thank you so much for linking to them. DH is really excited and feels, finally, after 6 months, that he is taking some control back. He is also slightly overwhelmed by the location of the clinic - his father died when DH was just 9 years old. So going to that village again after such a long time will be extremely emotional for him in many, many ways.

That's amazing :)
Good for you, and good for DH - and for thumbwitch! Feeling that there's something you can 'do' to manage your own life & health is uplifting in itself, isn't it?

Hi Abird - just checking back in now I'm home from work (and before I venture out on the ice to DS's school nativity play).

I'm so pleased you have a supportive GP - it must be a relief to have a professional refusing to tell you you're a selfish cow and making a fuss about nothing. Hopefully now you will believe that you are not a bad person and are perfectly justified in how you are feeling.

I'm glad there are some other people on here who are offering practical support in terms of reading matter, websites, etc. I feel a bit inadequate that all I can offer is a listening ear, a waterproof shoulder, and a hug, but I know you'll appreciate them too sometimes.

It's amazing what positive thinking and a strong attitude can do - as you say, just feeling he is taking some control back will make DH feel empowered and not just a victim.

You yourself sound a bit better now as well - as for that vicious bitch you have told us about, I hope she rots! I won't waste any more energy on her though...she obviously has a very sad little life if she needs to nosey into yours. And she's flattering herself if she thinks she's important enough to discuss any further, so I shan't give her the satisfaction. I should just ditch your old name and leave her guessing.

Hope you have a fab time out on Friday (if I don't "see" you before).

ABird - that is amazing! I am so glad it has had such a positive effect on your DH, and that the placing of the clinic is so significant for him. I really really hope that he gets some great good from the whole experience.

Thank you also for giving me a "warm fuzzy" - it's so nice to be able to help in a practical way, even from the other side of the world.

thumb, pleased you have the 'warm fuzzy' feeling - tis very much deserved

Right, hair is cut & looking good. Lift is sorted out for tomorrow night.

I'm feeling a little more cheerful, thanks to this thread and also to a very good friend. I am looking forward to speaking to a counsellor and being totally honest about how I am feeling. My fears and worries and all the selfish crap I am trying to muddle through.

DH is hopefully going to be moving back into our room in the next night or two. He's had a bad week and so has stayed in the spare room. My mood is definitely dependent on how he's feeling physically. When he's in pain or discomfort my mood plummets.

Thank God for my girls. They are so beautiful and funny and sweet. Just wish DD2 (8 mths) would sleep through so I can get some uninterrupted sleep

Hi Abird - hope you had a great evening out on Friday. I'm glad things are looking a little brighter for you.

Hi Vanilla, I did thank you. Unfortunately it ended with me in floods of tears in my friend's car as she & other friend dropped me home. [[hhm]

DH is starting to feel a little better at the moment. I think I get worse when he's physically down as it hits me hard that this thing isn't just going to go away.

Anyhow, hopefully things will stay on a more even keel for the next few weeks and then he goes to the Penny Brohn Centre at the beginning of January - so really not long to go now. Reading their website has really made us look at DH's diet. If he's happy with his treatment there I think I will do a food course there to get some ideas on what foods I should be cooking and how best to prepare them. Very interestingly, he has been off alcohol for a good couple of years and has really struggled with red meat for many months (before his diagnosis even).

Thank you for thinking of me, it always helps

ABird - just a few quick tips for the foods:
Go as natural as possible, avoid any kind of processed food as much as possible and if you can afford to go organic, do so.

Go right back to basics; limit meat and higher-up-the-food-chain fish; keep dairy low where possible (but have little amounts of normal dairy, rather than opting for low-fat alternatives, which usually have loads of other gunk in them to make up for the missing fat).

Cook only with olive oil, extra virgin preferably and avoid high-temp cooking, such as hot oven roasting, flaming grills, barbecues and frying, especially deep fat frying.

Try to steam veg etc. as much as possible; eat some raw but things like carrots and tomatoes are better cooked, because they release more of their fat-soluble nutrients when cooked (and need to be eaten with oil of some kind - just in the meal, you don't have to have steamed carrots covered in olive oil!).

Mix up the fruit and veg colours - get in lots of purple and red, berries are good for this. Even frozen ones are better than nothing. Juicing can be beneficial as well.

Avoid sugar. Cancer cells love sugar. I mean the white table stuff, stuff that is in sweets/cakes/biscuits/chocolate etc. - not so much the fruit sugars.

There are many more things that are more specific and can even be tailored to your DH's specific type of cancer in some cases, but that is a starter for you.

If you need any more help, do feel free to PM me (or ask on this thread) - I know a fair number of people in the nutritional medicine world.

Thanks for those tips thumbwitch, some really good advice. I think we eat relatively healthily, but I think we could do a lot better. Seeing as how it's me who does all the shopping/cooking I guess it's down to me to try and make it healthier and more 'cancer unfriendly' still.

I am still having a really hard time actually. I cannot stop myself bursting into tears every so often. Mainly because of how DH is - basically a bit of a miserable git, non-communicative and doing stuff like putting the external Christmas lights up and then moaning about it even after I said I would do it It's just bloody stupid of him and let's face it, the world is not going to end if the lights went up tomorrow rather than today.

I am definitely going through a grieving process at the moment - grieving for what we have lost and the future we should be looking forward to. Makes me feel desperately sad.

It's so bloody hard. And I know that DH's treatment has a lot to do with his moods (making him basically menopausal ). Again, hopefully advice given at the clinic can help him/us to manage that.

I want to shout at him to please start talking to me. To start saying 'thank you' when I take him a cup of (herbal) tea or make dinner. To have asked me how my evening out was. Anything really. But then I cannot even begin to imagine what he's going through.

Fuck. I hate this so much.

Abird - don't give yourself such a hard time! I know he is really ill, but manners cost nothing, and talking to you won't use up too much energy! It's also not good for him to be closing down and turning inwards - he needs to take his mind off his illness and keeping communication channels open is really important. After all, it doesn't do to pee off your main carer, does it?! (and I know it wouldn't make you care for him less).

Like you, he needs to make the most of the time left and make it as happy as possible for all of you. Perhaps a shout at him wouldn't be altogether a bad thing - it might make him realise what he's doing to you.

I really hope that the clinic can help you deal with all these more niggling issues, because they all add up even though they are insignificant on their own.

It's totally understandable that you are sad, as I have said before grief takes many forms and you are grieving for several different things right now.

Please, please, be kind to yourself, and let people know when it all becomes too much. Maybe your friends could take the DCs for an afternoon or an evening so you can catch up on some rest or chores at your own pace, not having to work round them. It may also be an idea to have a list by the phone of people who will come and sit with DH when you need to get out (I did this for a friend who had kidney cancer so his wife could get out and have her "me" time to restore her sanity and energy levels - she came back refreshed enough to carry on). The main thing is not to bottle up how you feel - just because he is ill doesn't mean you don't count any more.

Finally, I'm glad you had a good evening out - you need to keep doing that. Keep in touch - we are always thinking of you. I'm sending you a teddy to cuddle when you need it

God that's a hard one. But illness doesn't make saints of everyone, I think that's a rarety, to be honest. People are still people, and your DH has to remember that:
a) this is no picnic for you either - after all, you are the one who is going to be left to bring up your DC alone if the worst happens
b) as Vanilla says, manners cost nothing, and he might feel like shit but he can avoid adding to the general 'feeling-like-shitness' of the atmosphere of the house
c) accepting that he can't do as much now as he could before does NOT make him less of a man. I am quite sure that he felt he ought to be able to put the lights up, so did it, but hadn't realised how much it would take out of him and so moaned - but I would also think the moaning was more about how he isn't able to do these things easily any more, rather than him having to do them (whatever he said).
d) you need love and care as much as he does. It's unfair to become completely selfish about things - he may only have a limited time left to give you his love and care - so he'd better condense it down and do it better, not worse!

Do let him know when he is being a selfish arse - just because he is the ill one, he doesn't get to crap all over everyone else's feelings. He still needs to be told to behave like a decent person, husband and father if he forgets.

One more thing - have you heard of NLP? Neuro-linguistic programming - basically "brain washing" - it washes all the crap out of your brain and replaces it with shiny new stuff. The important thing about it is the way it teaches you to talk to people for maximum effect - always use positive framing. So for example you could say:
You know I love you, and I know you are having a hard time at the moment, it is affecting me as well - can you please show me that you love and care about me too?

Also, whenever he does something you don't like, say something like "I know you really do care about me, so please can you stop doing x as it makes me feel unvalued by you and that hurts my feelings"

At all costs avoid using words like Don't, Not, or any other negatives - the brain doesn't hear or understand those words too well. And if it does, it responds by doing what it has heard first, before working out how to NOT do it.
Which is why, when you tell a child "don't do that or you'll fall" - quite often they will keep doing it AND fall, because you've pretty much just told them to! It's hard until you get used to it, but when you do, you can see how language affects the way we behave in so many ways.

Also remember you are allowed to grieve for what you have lost already and what you may lose in the future - your DH is probably also grieving for his losses too - be kind to each other and make sure he behaves nicely as well.

(((hugs))) for you to go with your [fbear]

How are you doing today, Abird?

Hi, sorry I haven't been on in the last couple of days. It's busy round these parts! Thank you all again for all your thoughts and comments, they mean so much.

Thumb, I cannot thank you enough. Anti-Cancer arrived in the post 2 days ago and DH has barely put it down. Just reading it, along with knowing he's going to the clinic in a couple of weeks' time, has totally re-engerised him. We're talking again, he came to see DD1's nativity today and was crying with laughter through it and he just seems so much better both physically and emotionally. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Everything he tells me about food from that book I already know (or so it seems) from your post a couple of days ago.

Over the last couple of days he has told me frequently how much he loves me, what a great job I'm doing, saying how nice dinner was, etc., and it's been really lovely to hear. We're really talking again and I am feeling valued. If I didn't have a rotten cold I would now be tucked up in bed with him but best not to expose him to it.

Long may this last. And thank you to everyone who has given such utterly fantastic advice. You are, quite literally, life savers

Oh ABird! That is so wonderful, I actually have little tears in my eyes reading it! From happiness, you understand. So glad it's working well for your DH and his mood has lifted because of it. Long may it last!

Hope your cold goes away very quickly - taking extra vitamin C will reduce its duration, but even better would be to take extra zinc and selenium and Vit C together (pretty sure you can get that combo from H&B if you have time).

HOpe you all have a fantastic Christmas and lots of positivity for the New Year.

Hi Abird - I'm so pleased things have improved for you It's great that DDH enjoyed the nativity play - they do say that laughter is the best medicine.

Like Thumb I'm getting a bit dewy of eye and warm and fuzzy! It's come right just in time - you all really deserve the best, most peaceful Christmas (though with two small DCs the chances of peaceful are remote...!).

I hope the positive changes set the tone for the New Year. We'll all be thinking of you.

Abird - just wondered if your DH has been to the Penny Brohn centre yet, and how he got on if so? Please do let me know. Hope you had a good Christmas and New Year :)