Is my mother toxic or am I oversensitive?

[MumsMunchkin]

Brief background - parents divorced when I was 6 (I was youngest of 6 of that point). Have vivid memories of my father beating up my mother in drunken rages although later told it was not what it seemed, mother will not discuss what happened or my real father at all. My mother immediately remarried and had 2 further DCs who I was extremely jealous of. Real father visited sporadically for the 1st year after divorce then never saw him again (until last year after 30 years, met once decided not to take it any further).

Now when I was growing up my mother used to constantly tell me I was 'evil', 'weird', 'a bit touched', 'nasty', that I looked like my paternal grandmother who was an 'evil, fat, stinking bitch' and she would have to take me to a phychiatrist as I was 'looney'. My teenage years were hellish (I could not even tell her I had started my periods, I used tissue in my knickers until my older sister 'ratted' on me - to get me into trouble in her eyes ). My siblings viewed me as the 'black sheep' and I was blamed for everything. I spent a large chunk of my formative years laying on my bed listening to the world carrying on around me as I was always being sent to my room - the sound of the rest of the family laughing and me not being a part of it haunts me. She did used to whack me but it was mainly physchological attacks including calling my a 'slut' on my 16th birthday and slapping my face because I had put makeup on that I had been told I was not allowed to wear until then. Before that I had been chuffed and thought I looked great. I was also left behind at my step grandparents when they all went on a family Xmas holiday to Florida and did all the theme parks, because I had not saved up enough spending money from my part time job (I was 16). My brothers girlfriend was given my ticket I was told I was not to go back home and my door key was taken away because I could not be 'trusted' to look after the house even though at that point I was the one doing most of the cleaning!!

I left home at 18 to start a live in job (quickest way to escape), got a slap round the face and called an ungrateful cow when I told my mother but still went home regularly to visit . Since I have lived away from home and am an adult, I get on fine with my mother. She has been there for all the major highs and lows in my life and I don't really bear her any malice for my childhood.

BUT she seems now to picking on one of my DTSs. SHe has called him ugly (to his face) a few times while calling his brother 'handsome' and she and my stepfather show blatant favourism to my other DTS (one time taking my DS2 on a walk and leaving DS1 at home without asking if he wanted to come, by the time DS1 got his shoes on to go after them, they'd gone).

My CBT therapist does not understand why I am in contact with them quite honestly and feels I should confront my mother about all the stuff that's happened but I can't as I don't want the confrontation but I cannot allow her to do to my DS what she's done to me - I have no self esteem or confidence, suffer from social anxiety, OCD, panic attacks and depression and therefore feel that I have not achieved in life anything close to what I could have been capable of if I did not have these issues. Can't quite believe I have had a happy marriage for 17 years. My parents have asked me numerous times why, as I was always the most 'intelligent one' have I not achieved as much as my siblings and I am 'poor' compared to them.

I really can't understand why I still love my mother and wonder whether I was just an oversensitive child who took everything to heart. My 7 other siblings are quite well rounded and do not have any of the issues I have so perhaps AIBU to think that it's me with the problem not her??

We are supposed to be spending Xmas with them and although the DCs are excited about spending time with them as we do not see them often, I will not be able to let the digs pass this time and don't know how to handle it. Stangely I do not want to upset them!!!! I must be weird .

So why are you having anything to do with them? You don't want to upset them? People who have treated you like shit your whole life?

Get counselling.

More importantly - protect your children. There is no reason on this earth why you should willingly put them into a situation where they are being abused like you were.

I am getting counselling thanks. That's why I have finally realised what's happened.

Don't why I have a relationship with them or love them. Am completely fucked up about it!

I'm not surprised. It sounds like a horribly abusive childhood. Clearly your mother hates you for being the child of your father.

Please please please, for the sake of your children (not to mention for yourself!) just remove these people from your lives.

So sorry to hear about this.

Hecate is right, you must cut them out. Don't let them do to your child what they did to you

I think this will be the catalyst you need - it's one thing putting up with crap directed at your self but quite another when it's directed at your son. What is your DH's take on your situation? Could he step in and challenge your Mum/Stepfather about their treatment of your children? Being twins, it's even more obvious, isn't it?

Definiitely toxix parenting from your mother. Just ask yourself one question, "would you say or do any of the things that your mum did, to your own children?"

Please do not allow your mother to hurt your children, as she hurt you.

But I do understand that it takes a long time for the "penny to drop". She is your mother, you have always needed her and needed her to love you, and so to finally come to terms with the knowledge that she may not have loved you is very hard to do.

I am in the process myself of realising that my mother was (and still is) not a caring loving parent. She was cruel and toxic. But I loved her. I don't love her now.

I think it would be wise for you to have a strategy in place to protect your dc. Your counsellor can help you decide what the best plan is. But your dc do need protecting from her, you do know that really, don't you?

I don't know what to say, but your post made me cry and made me want to gather up the child you were and give her a big cuddle.

You've got to step away from your mother. Don't even give her a chance to spoil your DC's childhood. Cancel Christmas with them and enjoy your own little family.

It may not be easy just to "cancel Christmas" with a toxic parent. They can cause hell on earth if a child (grown up one) starts to be assertive. Take care to do this with help from your counsellor.

Cut. Them. Out.

Completely and utterly - don't look back. Keep on with that counselling and get yourself well.

You were unlucky enough to be born to terrible parents, it's not your fault.

You do not love your mother. The little girl in you is still seeking her love and approval but you will never get it.

I am so sorry for what you are going through and would like to metatphorically hit your crap mother over the head with a big cartoon-style mallet.

midnight - sorry for being dense, but what can they actually do to you? phone calls - put the phone down. letters - put them in the bin. turning up at the house - call the police.

Hec - yes, they can do those things you suggest, which may not sound too bad, but it is very very scary for a child of a toxic parent, for the parent. It is difficult to explain, but if MumsMunchkin's mother was so viscious in her childhood, she will be equally viscious now.

My mother recently told my niece that "she hated her" and it was said with venom. That poor child will have that to deal with at a difficult time for her.

My mother uses blackmail, hurtful words. And it really cuts deep. Very hurtful.

I agree that this mother/daughter relationship should end, but it must be done carefully and slowly. To protect MumsMunchkin. In my opnion.

I am so sorry that you had such an unhappy childhood. You really, really deserve better. Your DS deserves better.

Please cut these people out of your life, you are still being abused by them "My parents have asked me numerous times why, as I was always the most 'intelligent one' have I not achieved as much as my siblings and I am 'poor' compared to them." being a good example.

It is common for toxic people to single out ONE child for abuse, it is NOT because you somehow deserved it, it is because you were unlucky enough to have this woman for a mother. It will have left emotional scars on your siblings too, seeing you being treated like this, even if they do not know or realise it themselves.

toxic parenting not you being over sensitive. he were not able stand up to her then as you where a child. do the right thing and stand up to her now on your sons behalf. Give her the choice treat your ds with love care and respect or leave your family unit, her choice.

you sound like you have accomplished alot in your life and you should be proud of your self and your family, will your dh support you in this?

No you're not 'oversensitive' and you're not weird. Your mother has behaved in violent, abusive cruel and sadistic ways. She scapegoated you which also allowed your siblings to follow suit. This became the family norm and you became the emotional punchbag for her and them. All the uncontainable, 'bad' feelings the family couldn't handle were deposited in you. You did nothing wrong and nothing to deserve this.

You've detailed here how that has scarred you and blighted your life. You're right to be worried about her impact on your children. She's already beginning to repeat the pattern with them. Please find a way of protecting them from her.

I'm so very sorry your mum can't express or feel love properly. I understand how horribly painful it is. I know from my own experience with my dad.

Thing is - you are lovable and so very couragous. Look at what you have achieved inspite of them. Your mother's inability to take care of you is a reflection of her not you. Never you.

THere's a fantastic thread called but we took you to stately homes that you could look at if you fancy it. It's really supportive and the women their have a lot of similar experiences to you.

I'm so sorry your mother was and still is awful to you. It certainly isn't your fault and I'd definitely is toxic behaviour. I thought the way my parents behaved was pretty 'normal' on the whole until I grew up and had other well adjusted families to compare them to.

My mother became vicious when I tried to cut her out, we have involved the police, there have been nasty letters and cards and messages and general emotional blackmail and manipulation. I am so much happier without them in my life although I am conditioned by them to feel 'guilty' for cutting them out, I am happy to live with the guilt as it's about 100 times more stressful being in contact.

Have you read the book 'Toxic Parents'? Very good and if you're not ready to cut contact it has tips on how to deal with a toxic parent and examples of replies you can give to their nasty comments.

I found it useful to ask myself 'do I get anything out of this relationship?' , the answer was mainly stress, worry, bullying and guilt.

Also good to ask yourself 'would I accept it if a friend treated me this way?'

It's not you, it's them. Please protect your children from this.

Wow, I'm so sorry, you had a horrendously abusive childhood. You poor thing

No advice really, as no experience. All I would say is you need to cease contact with them for the sake of your DS (and you). Could you bear for him to have years of counselling as a result of toxic grandparents?

Good luck. You sound lovely.

She sounds absolutely horrible.

It is really hard to know what to do when someone in your life is like this, because we are all conditioned to think that parents don't hurt their children and that our own experiences are normal. That's why you're asking a question in your OP and everyone is saying, 'hell, of course she is toxic!'.

For me, it helps to remember that it is normal to feel confused and guilty and unsure - your mum hasn't given you a normal role-model. So you have to learn, consciously to protect yourself - and your children.

Hi Munchkin,

Let me tell you now, you were NOT oversensitive!!!.

You were the child, now adult victim, of toxic parents. Both failed you utterly; your Dad was a violent drunkard and your mother was and remains sadistic and cruel. You were subjected to a lot of cruelty at the hands of your dysfunctional family. Like many such adults now you are in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. You can overcome their hurtful legacy and reclaim your life.

It is okay for you not to have to seek her approval any more; I presume this is subconsciously why you maintain some sort of relationship with her.

If you have not already done so do read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. Also as iso suggested, do look at the Stately Homes thread on these pages and post there too; those ladies are very helpful.

Toxic parents like your Mother are more than happy to pass on their dysfunctional issues to the next generation as you have already seen with your own children. Do not let this happen to them, there has already been one generation affected by them i.e your good self. You must protect them from your toxic relations. These people do not change and asking them to be more reasonable will fall on deaf ears.

I would not criticise you at all if you were to cut them off completely and I would suggest you end all contact with them forthwith. Screen your calls and ignore any letters/cards they send. Infact shred anything they send you. You do not need or deserve such harsh treatment, you never did either.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours was scapegoat for all their ills. Its all well documented in the "Toxic Parents" book.

Your mother is still blaming you for her poor life choices but she made those of her own free will. BTW these people never apologise and never take any responsibility for their actions. They are also more than adept at giving their victim a "laundry list" of their own supposed shortcomings.

Reclaim your life Munchkin, you can do this and a starting point for that is not to have any more contact with them in any shape or form. Certainly do not visit them at Christmas.

Your mother is toxic. I grew up in an abusive home, and my sister has had lots of counselling to deal with it. DSis asked her counsellor why she found it so hard to stand up for herself, and was advised that when these sitautions occur she emotionally regresses to a child so deals with things as a 5 year old if that makes sense. So maybe you find it hard to stand up for yourself to your family because you are not dealing with them on an equal basis. They are being mean, abusive adults, but you are emotionally trying to cope as a child.

Personally I wouldn't see them at Christmas, but I know that is easier said that done.

As to why your siblings seem to cope better with their adult lives, they may not. Or it may be that they are like me. My damage is not as visible as my siblings, but it is still there.

Or it may be that your parents simply treated your siblings better than you. I don't think it is a good idea to compare yourself to them.

What does your DH think? Would he rather not see them?

I haven't seen my father for 23 years as I felt his violence and control was like a poison dripping down through the generations, and the only way to deal with it was to cut him out completely. I feel very strongly that my children need to be kept safe from that poison.

I still maintain that it will take time and help from the counsellor to end this relationship. I don't think Munchkin is ready yet to cut her mum out. She is only just ready to start acknowledging that the relationship was and is toxic.

I think it will take a huge amount of support to cut ties with her mother.

Munchkin - can you see your counsellor very soon to start the ball rolling to cut ties with your mother? Do you have trust and a good relationship with your counsellor?

Just to end the relationship today is dangerous in my opion, if you are not ready to deal with the fallout. With the backup and support of your counsellor, then yes, go for it. When YOU are ready.

You know you are all right. I have always known it. It has just been easier to blame myself, that I am as she said I was.

DTS2 said to DTS1 recently when they were arguing about something and calling each other names as 8yr olds do, that 'Grandma said you are ugly'. I know I've got to do something and subconciously have been, I have not answered her calls and have not spoke to her much recently whereas I was speaking to her every 2/3 days before.

I really do want to get it all out, how she made me feel, but think what's the point, it will only cause an argument. I see that my siblings were also affected as they rarely contact me and have always had the image of me being a bit mental. In fact my older sisters quite often comment that I was a 'right bitch' when I was younger.

I am thinking of simply cutting all ties and but I know they will travel up here if they don't hear from us and will be on the doorstep.

How do I tell them I don't want them in my life anymore? If anything happened to them and I did not know about it, I could not live with the guilt.

DH agrees they have completely fucked me up and would have already given them hell about DS1 but says it my family and he cannot interfere. He would support cutting ties. I don't think he quite believes me as we are so 'normal' when we are all together. He grew up in a very, very poor family (abroad) but with a totally close loving family (apart from his older brother being an asshole occassionally) so it's all alien to him. His parents adore all our children and display lots of emotion - totally different culture.

I just wanted to post to say you are not weird! You are reacting like a normal person - you would like to have a happy relationship with your mother, normal people do not like to upset people close to them. But unfortunately it sounds like your mother will not let you have a happy relationship with her.

Congratulations on growing up with that kind of treatment and having a happy marriage as an adult...as you said, your past has left you with a lot of problems, and for you to come through that and have a good marriage shows that you are a fantastic person!

I haven't got much more to add, but I know there are lots of people here who will be able to help you sort things out in your head. Good luck, and I hope your own children grow up without having to put up with any of what you had to.

You know it's amazing how powerful CBT is. I have always had a guilt complex about everything and could never work out why.

It's only recently I have realised it stems from when I was around 8 and we had a kitten, pure black beautiful thing. I remember hearing it meow in the garden while I up in my bedroom (yet again) but thought nothing of it obviously. It died later that day (I remember vaguely it was to do with the flea powder my mum had put on it). When I said that I had heard it meowing, I was told that I was an 'evil bitch' who had let it die because I did not do anything!! Anyway got a black kitten last year (strangely drawn to it as I hoped it would bring us luck) but it disappeared after 6 months (believed to have taken by a fox) and the guilt I felt was terrible - I thought it had run off because I would not let it sleep on the beds! Clicked with me later where my guilt complex comes from.

Again you are in the FOG here - fear, obligation, guilt. This state is commonly seen in child now adult victims of toxic parenting.

Turn that point you made about anything happening to your toxic relations around and you stating you could not live with the guilt. They really have done a number on you haven't they?. Guilt - that bloody word again, you should ban that word from your life as of now. F guilt!. You have nothing to feel guilty for; you have been conditioned by this dysfunctional family from whence you came to be the scapegoat for their ills.

If they turn up on your doorstep (which is more unlikely than it is) send them away. Do not answer the door or let them in. A sternly worded Solicitors letter may suffice (these people can be afraid of "authority" figures).

Your DH should without question support you. As for your DH saying he cannot interfere because they are not his family; well that is a bit of a cop out. He is related to them by marriage and he has seen at first hand what they've done to you. However, people like your DH who come from families where such dysfunction is thankfully unknown do find abusive families very hard to deal with as these people do not ever play by the "normal rules" governing familial behaviour. He could read "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward.

If anything awful (god forbid) happened to you would your toxic relations actually care?. Not likely, you are still their scapegoat. I would also think that one, perhaps two of your other siblings, are more favoured than the rest - the golden child/children. This is not without price for them as they compete. You have something that they all sadly lack - insight and empathy. Two great qualities.