Hideous night. Relate alone. Any point?

[SnotandBothered]

Have namechanged. And long, sorry

Me and DH had a horrible night I am feeling wobbly and confused.

Background:

We've been together 17 years - got together at quite a young age (although I had managed to squeeze in quite a lot few boyfriends first . We have two DCs - 3&6.

Since having first DC, things have been strained. This is mostly to do with historical issues that DH has from his childhood (and adulthood) that have never been resolved. His father is a gambler/womaniser who managed to lose family home / family business at the card table,sleep around, swan about like the big I Am whilst DH's mother kept her head down and cooked tea for everyone. His father would go away 'on business' for months at a time and come home either flush or skint, but always to a hero's welcome. My DH was often roped into knowing 'secrets' that he would rather not know about - scams/other women, and was also a victim of his father's habbit - haivng his childhood piggy bank smashed open all the time etc. DH's mother has never raised her voice to her H, won't hear a bad word (even when he forged documents and stole money from both his sons bank accounts to gamble) and they are still married. DH's father is always going on about 'family' and 'blood' and she likes to quote 'for better for worse...' .

Consequently DH grew up with a very twisted view on love and marraige.

DH has really broken the mould - running a successful business, being a good father and husband and hating gambling and infidelity :)

From time to time the fallout of his childhood has caused problems in our marriage but I accept this although have tried for years to get DH to go for counselling. He won't as he sees this as a sign of weakness (ridiculous) and pointless as you can't change your family or the past. However as soon as we had our first child, DH's issues really started to surface. When we met, we both used to go out clubbing and stuff. We both used drugs in our early twenties but I was over it by 25 and whilst DH pretty much stopped too, he would 'binge' every now and then. As soon as I was pregant he made a vow of 'no more' and has never broken it. What he did instead was start to drink. Not a lot - just two or three beers a night but this is enough to make him mildly spiteful and unpleasant (he is usually gentle and kind). And then every now and then, he would drink a bit too much whilst in the wrong mood - or under great pressure from work - and he would blow, with me being the victim (verbal, shouty, unkind, angry but not physical). I am quite volatile myself but have learned on these occasions to take a submissive role rather than agravate things further. We have talked round and round this issue and he admits that he has 'addictive tendancies' but says he will stop in his own time. Now normally, I would say 'yeah right' but I've seen him do it before (with drugs) and again 10 years before that with smoking - no pathches/hypnosis etc, just one day he said 'I'm done with smoking' and he was.

I have had a few problems myself of late - family illness etc, so have been quite snappy I know. Last night he had a couple of beers and made some sarcastic comment about 'competitive illness' and I just snapped. I was awful and there is no excuse for what I did. I screamed at him that he didn't have the monopoly on problems, I told him that he was a shit father and husband, that I was sick of being with someone who can't control their drinking, that he was being no better a role model than his father and I told him I wished he would fuck off. I slapped him round the face and I punched him full whack in the shoulder. He restrained me and then went out.

He came back an hour later (having had a few more drinks) and screamed at me that I was a bitch and I ended up hitting him again. This time he pushed me and I fell over. He said 'good' and stomped upstairs to the spare bedroom and went to sleep.

This morning we are both completely shell shocked. I have apologised and he has said he is 'confused'. He is horrified that he could have pushed me and that I could have hit him. In all our years together, nothing like this has ever happened.

I asked him what he was feeling and he said he loved me but didn't know where to go from here. I feel the same. Thank god the DC's slept through it (although the neighbours will probably never look me in the eye again).

Anyway, again I raised the issue of therapy/relate and met with a brick wall. It's not going to happen.

So my very very very longwinded epic post is leading to one question. Is there any point in me going to relate alone?

And if you've got this far, then thank you.

yes go on your own. sort out in your own mind how to move forward

I would agree that you should go on your own, although clearly it would be better if you both go. You may also want to consider going to AlAnon as they support family members affected by someone else's drinking.

Speaking as a man, I would say that counselling is definitely not a sign of weakness. If anything I think it is a sign of strength given the stigma that is often attached. And whilst it can't change his family or his past, it may help him to change the way he feels and reacts.

Yes, go on your own to Relate.

Why do you think you snapped and lost it to such an extent?

You must be pretty freaked out by that.

prh I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wanted him to go for some CBT as I think he would really benefit from changing how he responds (even to this day) to his Dad calling us to tell us he needs to 'borrow' £500. THere is a whole chain of emotional blackmail that gets wheeled out and it absolutely kills DH every time

But I digress. This sounds really selfish but I really believe that most of 'our' problems are really 'his' problems. That is why I am not sure if there is any point going alone. Although to listen to him sometimes, you'd be forgiven for thinking every row we'd ever had is because I nag too much

spidooky I don't know. At the time, I literally wanted to stab him over one throwaway comment - I just saw red.

I think I feel like I have shouldered all his 'issues' for so long, and now that I have a need for comfort and support, it's not forthcoming because it's still 'all about him'. I had said words to this effect the day before, perhaps that is why his stupid comment made me blow.

Maybe?

Don't really know to be honest

Definitely go on your own - even if you think the problems are largely 'his', it can still make a huge difference. Our situation isn't/wasn't the same but I found that me going for counselling without him led to solutions and changed our relationship for the better in ways I couldn't have imagined. I hope things work out well for you whatever you do.

Do you think there is any chance you would lose it like that again?

Have you ever lost control like that before?

Some of us cursed with explosive tempers have had the advantage of growing up with parents of a similar disposition, and so get help in learning to control it as we grow up. It must be very scary and upsetting to have lost it so badly if you had no experience of loss of control, and no strategies for regaining it.

Are you worried that you were so violent? What, if anything, do you want to do to address that?

Spidookly Both my parents have bad - but very different - tempers. My dad is very passive and gentle but then a few times a year would explode with a terrifying rage. My mum is always arguing and shouting - even if there is nobody arguing back. As an only child growning up, I remember hating it and have, as an adult, tended to do the opposite and reign it in. However, I have always been aware that I have felt like exploding at times. Although I have never been physical as I was last night, I have felt that inner rage before where you feel physically sick with anger. It's just that I have always been able to control it. Until now. I don't know what, if anything, that means.

And yes, I would like to stop it happening.

I feel quite afraid actually. Of my behaviour. Of what 'we' have done/become, of everthing that may now have to happen.

And so tired.

Of course you are afraid. It's very scary, and you're right, the consequences will be significant. It's not something you can (or would want to, I imagine) ignore.

Oh S&B, poor you. Its very scary to loose your temper like that. I once floored DP with one punch in the face and to this day i genuinley don't remember doing it because i was so angry. I can't remember why or when but i still did it.

I also have a dp that has a lot of past demons and family issues that have made our relationship difficult in the past.

I have given DP an ultimatem in the past and said that either he goes for councelling, or we part ways, i made clear though that the councelling could be on his term and that i would come with him or not and he could choose a councellor and time place ect.
He had a few weeks of pretty usless councelling through our GP but even though the advice he was given was shite just talking about things seems to have helped him.

I hope you get things worked out.

As someone in a similar position feel free to PM me if you want to chat.

Snotandbothered, there was one thing that struck me about his view on counselling was "you can't change your family or the past". That's true, he can't, but he could change his reaction to them or to his past, with help.

Perhaps that view might help to see that some counselling could give him a way forward.

I think you should still go for counselling alone, if need be.

Lastnight was the straw that broke the camels back. I have been there with dh. We had years, ever since we met, of grief from his mother and his exwife. I helped carry him through it all, consistantly. I spent months poring over legal docs to help us self rep at court. Testing times. We got through it, but two years ago his mother caused an almighty row and we all fell out. Months later, dh made some disparaging remark about my family, whom he loves and i did what you did. The intensity of my anger frightened me. I slapped him, not proud of course. I know it was total anger at how we had taken abuse from his side for years and i never cast this up, i stood side by side with him. Yet he had a few drinks on Burns night and decided my family were getting it. The buried resentments can be there all along without you knowing.

I hope you can convince him to go along, it does sound like history could repeat itself. But go alone anyway if he wont. Good luck.

Your dh sounds a lot like me, huge family ishoos, emotional abuse, mixed messages throughout childhood ( and up to the present day in his case) and addiction issues as a result. He is more than likely just swapping one addiction for another, even if there is a sizable gap in between - he is still hurting inside and is taking stuff, whatever is his poison at the time, to feel better, even if only for a little while.

Sounds like the whole thing finally boiled over, it has for me and dh too when I had a breakdown last month. Dh says he always knew it was coming, he just didn't know when!

Dh has had to deal with a lot of my shit over the years, like back when I couldn't take any critisism, and my ego was so fragile that anything less than gushing praise would crush me yes he put up with all that.

But I know that I am responsible for getting better, I have had counselling before, which helped, I am also the queen of self help books, which is probably how I have come as far as I have (again like your dh) but you do reach a point where professional help is needed when the feelings and emotions of anger, guilt etc are so mixed up and prone to going off whenever... He has a responsibility to you and your dc to sort out his demons.

If he feels that counselling / relate is such a waste of time, then can he not go along with it 'to make you happy / help you deal with things' at least in the interim, then you can 'get him' well you know what I mean.

Well done for carrying the heavy load thorugh this, I hope your dh can return the favour and do the hard work of sorting himself out

Definitely go on your own. It will do you good to talk about how you feel, and letting off steam to someone other than your DH may well help you to deal better with the situation.

Your DH needs to come around to the idea of going on his own terms - perhaps he would be more comfortable with something other than counselling - NLP, for example (which can still be a form of counselling but cuts out a lot of the talking about it, just gets to the behaviour changes to deal with it). Life coaching is another type of NLP/ behaviour change - helps him to deal with his current behaviour patterns without having to do a lot of talking about the past. Seeing that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, and realising that he cannot fix it by himself (or he would have already done so) is a strength, not a weakness. Does he go to the doctor when he is ill? Would he see a surgeon if he needed an operation? Does he take the car to a mechanic? Yes, because they are trained to know what to do where he isn't. It's the same with mending his entrenched behaviour patterns - he can't fix it himself so he needs to see someone who is trained to help him.

I think if you are both shocked and genuinely sorry that last night happened, you will be able to get past that in itself - but the root causes of why it happened do need to be addressed by both of you.

I am just curious to the differing advice here and it is curiosity.

If this were a man who had assaulted his partner like this repeatedly,it wasn't a one of hit, it was 2 seperate incidents. She'd be told to phone WA, to leave and counselling would be useless once violence has started and it would get worse. Quite right.

Why is op's advice so different? Would you jusitfy a man slapping and puching his wife a few times if she was ill, or said a horrible name in retaliation There wouldn't be a reason on this earth forum that would have women justifiying violence if it were the opposite, no matter how challenging their behaviour.

Crumbs. He sounds as if he has come such a long way in dealing with a really horrific past. Do you have a horrific past you are dealing with? I'm not really sure why you had such a response. I think if that was my reaction I'd be taking myself off to therapy as fast as I could and talking about counselling for both of us as a related issue, tbh.

emmy

Your post makes no sense, you say

"If this were a man who had assaulted his partner...she'd be told to phone WA"

If this were a man posting that he was terrified because he'd lost it with his wife and hit her, I'm not sure the advice would be quite so gentle. But I don't think anyone here (myself included) has sought to justify her violence, or excuse it. She is the one asking for help, so we're trying to give it to her.

If it were a woman posting that her husband had hit her then yes, people would be telling her to call WA.

But it's not, it's the OP posting and we're responding to what she's written.

If you want to tell her DH to phone WA you're going to have to find a different thread for that.

You get what I mean, it's hypocrisy.

If a woman were to post her hubby had lashed out like that, she'd be told to get him to leave, call WA, phone the police, the whole hog, fair enough. One violence has entered the relationshiip, it's hard to go back, etc.

But the advice to the op, who has assaulted her husband violently, on two seperate occassions, it's all gently, gently, softly, HE needs help. Poor you you must of just snapped, etc.

When there is no justification for that kind of violence ever, and if the tables were turned and it were a woman assaulated in this manner she'd be told to leave he brute of a husband, even if she did have issues with depression and what not. Just hypocrisy.

It's ok for a wife to batter her husband, but the other way around and women would be calling for his arrest and they wouldn't be all softly with him either.

I'm not sure you understand what hypocrisy means.

Nobody on this thread has said it's OK for anyone to batter anyone else.

But if verbally battering a woman who is clearly upset is your thing, then on you go.

The one thing I picked up on from your post was that this resurfaced after you had children. I also had an abusive parent and thought I'd pretty much dealt with it. What I'd actually done was buried and carried on. When i had my own children the whole lot resurfaced as I suddenly realised just how wrong those actions had been, to be in a position of responsibility and love for such a helpless being and then treat it the way I was treated was so horrendous I really found it very difficult to cope with.
I did sort it out without counselling but it took a very long time, and a lot of effort. What really helped me was meditation, I can give you some audiobooks if you like. It made me calm enough to process it in 'bits' just a little at a time.
I don't know whether this may be something your DH would do, maybe bringing things to a head will have helped in a way.

And no, I would never condone violence, but tbh if a man had posted what you had, so full of remorse and concern I think my answer would have been the same. Living with someone trying to deal with these issues on their own is hard.

I am overwhelmed by the kindness and support - thank you. And Berries you are spot on in your observation about things surfacing post-children. DH has said on a few occasions that now he is a father, it puts his father's dreadful behaviour into perspective as he can't imagine ever doing wrong by his DCs. Although it has made him see how 'wrong' his dad was (I had tried and failed for ten years to tell him as much), it also acted as a horrible slap in the face - it made him feel that his Dad couldn't really love him.

emmy I do take your point. I really do. Had I read a post where the OP was saying her husband 'finally snapped and lashed out', I don't think I would be as sympathetic as most of the responses I have had. All I can tell you is that I feel so ashamed for what I did and I will do whatever it takes to ensure it doesn't happen again. We have been together a long time and nothing like this has ever happened before so I feel fairly confident in saying it is an isolated incident and not the start of a pattern.

Having had a few hours to think on it this afternoon, I realise that I am actually really resentful of the emotional drain that DH's family problems have caused. I know this is selfish and as his wife and friend, I know it is my duty to support and stand by him (which I hope I have done). I also know that i shouldn't be looking for thanks or gratitude but actually I think I do want some. DH is very emotional which can be quite exhausting, and also so vulnerable where his father and brother are concerned that I think it has made him 'toughen up' with me as a kind of defence mechanism. At times this makes him seem unsympathetic and last night was just too much. I wanted a hug and a chat about what was going on with my family, and I got rolled eyes and the suggestion that I don't really know what 'real problems' are. That combined with the now regular drinking which makes him vaguely angry all the time, and the insistence that he doesn't want professional help, has just worn me down.

I feel hugely encouraged by the suggestion that counselling might help - even if I go alone. TInselina thank you for your kindness - I may well PM you but for tonight at least, I am feeling so hollow and sick about it all that I can do is drink tea and eat marmite on toast :)

If someone says to me therapy = weak, I say relying on alcohol = weak, going to therapy to face ones fears = strong

Al anon sounds like a good place to start for you. There are also counselling services specifically for people with a drink problem or their families. If your GP is any good they should be able to give you info about local organisations.

So Euro do you think AL Anon rather than relate alone? I really want to take some action as I am quite un-confrontational (usually) and normally chose to brush things under the carpet. But this epsidoe has given me a shock, and the feelings i have been having since it happened has made me realise that I should do something whilst i feel inclined IYSWIM.

But now I am confused as to which organisation or kind of help to go for