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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

don't know what to do about partner!

50 replies

dontknowwot2do · 29/11/2010 14:50

Hi there,

I really need some advice about what to do about my partner...

We have a 4 month old son, my dad died just over 2 months ago, and my mum now has money problems, and is a difficult person to get along with anyway. Added to this, we now have to move house as our (rented) house is freezing cold (I've been having the heating on full blast, and the room temp still doesn't go over 14 centigrade!), and has mould in the bedroom.

So, I have quite a lot on my plate. I was devastated by my dad's death, which was untimely, but I am coping. I have a wonderful brother, and close family. Also, the baby is very good and a joy to look after.

My partner is unemployed, he gave up some part-time teaching just after my dad died, saying that it was too stressful, what with everything that had happened, and that he wanted to be there for me. However, he hasn't been with me to see my mum for nearly a month now, leaving me to struggle on the train (I'm not a very good driver), because he says she hates him. It is true that she is sometimes funny with him, but she's like that with everyone, and he seems to think that she isn't upset by my dad dying, and she is, she's really really upset.

He's also meant to be putting energy into a small business start up, which has eaten up our meagre savings (well, my savings, of about £3k) but he hasn't done anything, and spends his days reading philosophy, and has just informed me he wants to be a psychoanalyst. Which would be fine, but he's 34 and training to be a psychoanalyst takes 4 years, and requires money, and the course he wants to do is in London and we live in the north west.

He also blames me for holding him back, but I really don't think I have. He wants to move to France, and says that if I believed in him more that we could move there. But I don't see how we could. We have no savings, he has no job, I am a PhD student, earning just £13k a year. Also, I don't want to move abroad, especially now my dad's died, I can't make any decisions like that, aside from it not being practicable.

We've lived a studenty lifestyle for the 9 years we've been together. Whilst he was doing his PhD, I worked, and we enjoyed having an allotment, going to the pub, going on camping holidays, and having a make-do-and-mend lifestyle, making our own beer etc.

Now I'm doing a PhD, he doesn't seem to want to work, which I did whilst he did his PhD, saying that we'd lose what we receive in child tax credits and housing benefit (£320 a month), so working wouldn't be worth it.

Having a child, I just feel like it's time to grow up and to be pragmatic. It's true that with the higher education funding cuts that there are no jobs in academia, but there are post-doctoral funding opportunites. And if the situation was reversed, I'd get a job doing whatever.

Don't know how to give him a kick up the bum. Tips please!

Thank you Smile

OP posts:
perfumedlife · 29/11/2010 16:53

So sorry you lost your dad, he must have been quite young.

As for your dp, another of those eternal students who give students a bad name.

Please think about leaving him. My beautful cousin lives with this type of guy. She works full time, drives him to the dole office, he has two degrees and no intention of ever working. Why would he? The house is cosy and warm and she brings home the bacon. She has no happiness, and yet feels it's all she has and its too late to start over. It isn't, It is never too late.

I think you would miss him for, oh, three minutes. Then your life proper would start.

QuintessentialShadows · 29/11/2010 16:59

Sorry for the loss of your dad.

Your partner is sponging off you.

YOU supported him through his phd by working.
He has given up his job to read philosophy in his "leisure" now that YOU are doing a phd.

Instead he has lofty dreams about retraining, and moving to France.

He has spent your savings. He is emotionally blackmailing you claiming you are holding him back.

No, he wont change.

And darling, you are Already on your own. But funnily, he isnt....

cestlavie · 29/11/2010 17:11

Firstly, sorry to hear about your dad.

Secondly, to all those on here saying "leave him", does that not sound a little pre-emptive???

The OP has been with him for 9 years during which time she has presumably been generally happy. Over the last half year, the poor OP has had something of an emotional rollercoaster during which time both her and her partner's lives have changed a lot (for better and for worse). Now admittedly, he sounds like he's been something of a prize twat over the last few months but, let's face it, he's hardly alone in blokes being unable to face up to their responsibilities post arrival of a little one or being able to support their partners during difficult periods.

The key thing would seem to be whether he can understand that life needs to change post the arrival of the baby. For some blokes, that means stopping being out on the lash every night, for some means actually doing something around the house etc. For him, it means getting off his sorry arse, stopping living the student dream and getting a job to support his family.

Practically speaking, given what sounds like his general wooliness, it feels like you need to have some sort of timetable or deadlines. Don't know what these might be but along the lines of having applied for X jobs, or found X sources of income; sorting out X housing and other household needs; making X visits with you to see your mum. Stuff that you think matters to you as part of a grown up relationship.

If he's unwilling to sit down and even discuss what you need out of a grown up relationship then clearly you do have a problem. Hopefully though, he is big enough to be able to have that conversation and then to understand what he needs to do.

Good luck with it!

perfumedlife · 29/11/2010 17:14

Pre emptive? Nine years of barely working or earning? I think life happens while you look idely on. This is as good as it gets. And it's not very good.

cestlavie · 29/11/2010 17:25

Yes, pre-emptive in the sense that presumably the OP and her partner have been fairly happy over the last 9 years and so that lifestyle must have worked for them to an extent... Could be entirely wrong of course, but sure OP could set me straight on that.

Baileysandice · 29/11/2010 17:28

Why does he blame you for holding him back?? From reading your post I would say its the other way round. In the real world you need money to pay the bills, buy food etc. Very concerned a man in his thirties has NEVER had a full time job!!!! Correct me if im wrong but why not??? Is he serious about anything in life?For example does he take good care of your child? Perhaps your only option in your relationship is to accept you must be bread winner while he is at home looking after house and child.

pottonista · 29/11/2010 17:29

I'm doing a psychotherapy course. It's part-time, one day a week. That's not an alternative to taking responsibility and earning money - it's something that can only happen if you do take responsibility and earn money.

If he wants to do it, tell him to find a part-time job that will pay for his course fees (around £4K a year, or £350-ish a month) plus his contribution to supporting the family and the weekly personal therapy (average £50 a session, so £200 a month) he'll be required to take for the duration of the four-year course. So that's around £6400 a year, after tax, he needs to be bringing in over basic living expenses for him and his family in order to afford his dreams.

It's totally possible, but if you want to make your dreams happen, you have to work bloody hard. Tell him to man up and start working bloody hard.

exexpat · 29/11/2010 17:38

I may be barking up completely the wrong tree here, but do you ever wonder whether he could be suffering from depression/bipolar disorder? I'm not any kind of expert, but the combination of grandiose plans (France, London, six kids) together with lack of ability to actually get down to doing anything does ring a few alarm bells (just thinking of some people I know who were later diagnosed with MH problems).

spidookly · 29/11/2010 17:44

"having applied for X jobs, or found X sources of income; sorting out X housing and other household needs; making X visits with you to see your mum. Stuff that you think matters to you as part of a grown up relationship."

That doesn't sound like an adult relationship.

That sounds like the relationship a mother would have with her lazy son to try to get him through A Levels.

And it would fail, because people need to be self-motivated to achieve anything. Sorting out their life for them and setting their goals achieves nothing.

StuffingGoldBrass · 29/11/2010 17:52

Ask yourself what, if anything, he contributes to your family life. I'm wondering if he is gorgeous to look at and/or great in bed, becausae he doesn't seem to have anything else in his favour. If that's the case, is he sufficiently gorgeous and shaggable for you to feel able to accept keeping him as some kind of exotic pet rather than an actual partner? It doesn;t sound like he's capable, let alone willing to try to become a father and a partner ie make some effort, so when you have a partner like this you have to either accept that the person is more of an exotic pet than another adult to share the work, or you have to get rid of him/her.

pottonista · 29/11/2010 17:53

On a slightly different note, if he wants to change career 34 isn't too late at all. There are people on my course who are over 60. But it's hard work.

My brother had kids young, and worked for 10 years doing a job he hated so my (now ex)-SIL could be at home with the DCs (now 4 and 8). They mutually agreed to separate fairly recently, and my brother is now working full-time, paying maintenance/support and doing a part-time law conversion. He's 34. It's possible; but you have to be energetic and motivated. Again, tell him anything is possible but - as you say - you have to work hard, make sacrifices and be pragmatic.

cestlavie · 29/11/2010 18:07

Spidookly: right now it sounds like he needs to be treated as a lazy teenager. To me, the question is whether (assuming the OP is happy with him more generally) he can change and how that can be achieved.

spidookly · 29/11/2010 18:15

Just because he needs to be treated as a lazy teenager doesn't mean the OP is obliged to treat him as one.

She just had a baby and lost her Dad. Maybe she'd like a relationship with an adult who supports her than one with a child she has to make timetables for?

Lulumaam · 29/11/2010 18:34

I think you can cut your partner a bit of slack and accept an amoutn of idling for a while, if you are both happy to plod along

once children come along, you have to man up. and woman up. the OP can hardly jack it all in due to stress as she is now supporting the whole family, whilst being accused of holding back her DP

something not chiming right with this

he has taken time off to support her, yet she feels more alone and let down

it's not right and not acceptable

thenightsky · 29/11/2010 18:51

As a matter of interest OP, what job/s did you do whilst supporting him through his PhD/Masters etc?

I bet you would take anything to bring the money in.

All you are asking for is a little equality.

QuintessentialShadows · 30/11/2010 10:16

As an aside, I am 38 and in the middle of changing careers. I have gone down to part time in my current job, I work two evenings per week in my new chosen field, and as it is teaching, lots of preparations and coursework to correct aside from the three teaching hours. I am working my arse off, with a husband and two children and elderly parents to support. I start a uni course after Christmas, and getting the reading list early so I can start reading up on the course materials in advance.

I am not sitting idle diddling over my books, and agonizing that nobody supports me and MAKE any changes happen on my behalf.

If he wants to change careers, he needs to work TWICE as hard.

But twice as hard as not at all, is still not at all, I suppose....

cestlavielife · 30/11/2010 10:33

like my exP - among otehr things always pie in teh sky, gave up his work etcetc.

relaity is you now have a baby and baby comes first.
he is not putting baby first - nor the needs of family as a whole.

have him move out and on - maybe it will motivate him to do something, maybe not.

why you worried about upsetting him?
his problem.

upsetting his parents - not your problem either.

he cans till have relationship with baby.
but he would be doing it on his own, which may just buck him up.

(it may not - but at least he wont be your responsibility any more)

whenallelsefailsmaketea · 30/11/2010 10:59

If you dont want to give him the boot how about making him the SAHD while you get a decent job after finishing the PhD? He could be the domestic back up and train online or distance learning or whatever for psychanalysis. Then when your DC is at pre/school he could start to build his practice. Mind you if there are to be six kids that will take a while Confused

Sounds like you are happy in the area near the GPs and wouldnt want to move miles away. Perhaps you could plan some summer travelling as a family to scratch that itch?

Still think you have outgrown him. I have a cousin like him who has never realised grown ups need to work at relatively boring jobs to pay the bills even if they don't want to. Those of us who love our work are rare and fortunate.

dontknowwot2do · 30/11/2010 12:17

wow! thanks for all the messages, I'm pushed for time right now, so can't reply properly, but here are my quick thoughts...

First, yes, I do feel like his mum. And I have set him goals, but he doesn't meet them, and I've lost heart nagging him, cos it makes me feel horrible, and like I'm making him do stuff he doesn't want to do. Last year, when he was teaching, it was a real drain emotionally, as he got really nervous in the build up to the days when he'd be teaching, and I'd have to tell him that he'd be fine, that he's a good teacher, help him prepare his lecture, listen to him practice. I'd be nervous too, but he seemed to think that the work I had to do was unimportant, and after a few months, I would have thought that he would have got over the nerves and been able to stand on his own to feet. This year, when he said he was going to give up the teaching, I didn't have the energy to argue, and I realised that I wouldn't have the energy to build up his confidence every week.

When I'm at at my mum's house, although she's a difficult person, and there are money worries, and so many reminders of my dad, I feel like I'm on holiday, cos her or my brother will pick up the baby, make dinner, do the washing up, ask me if I have any washing. I still do my share, but I feel like I'm spoilt. Which isn't a good sign. I'm about to leave the house to get a train home, and I'm dreading it.

Partner was on the phone last night, full of beans cos he's made an appointment to see a workshop for his business venture. Dont' know how the rent for this will be paid for! It's quite cheap, at £3.5k a year, but we can't afford it, and I feel like it's another unacheivable dream.

He has had a full time job, just not since we've been together. He worked since he was 13 in crappy jobs - cafes, then a factory, and building sites, then went to uni. I've worked since I was 16 every summer holiday from school and uni, and in the gaps between my studies in offices doing admin/secretarial/basic accounts. He thinks that those types of jobs are easy for me, as I'm an organised person, adn that he couldn't do them, and no one would employ him. He thinks he's unemployable.

I do love him, at least I did until recently, and I feel bad for him for his lack of confidence.

I've had a fantasy, since the baby was born, of living in a flat, with no clutter (he's got loads of hobbies that take up loads of space), where I don't have to pick up after anyone but me and the baby.

As to what I get out of the relationship, it used to be that he was my best friend, that we had a great laugh, talked about ideas, books, but I don't want to talk to him anymore. I resent him, and I hate to hear him waffling on. In the past I wouldn't have thought of it as waffling on, I would have thought of it as listening to his interesting ideas - I guess I looked up to him.

We haven't had sex on a regular basis for 4 years. He has given me loads of different excuses, but it comes down to his lack of confidence. If he thinks someone fancies me, it really damages his confidence. I've shut that part of myself off, do not flirt or ever respond to that sort of thing, but I do sometimes think I'd like to have an affair, whilst I'm still young and attractive, but then feel bad for feeling like that. He is quite attractive, but doesn't pay any attention to his appearance - he picks his clothes up off a pile from the floor, doesn't have his hair cut regularly, doesn't trim his beard... THe other week, I got ready to come to my mum's and he seemed to take affront that I'd put make up on, and made an effort to look nice.

So yes, reading this, it seems obvious what I should do, but I'd like him to change, I'll certainly get him to read people's advice about moving to France, he seems to think it's a utopia! And I'm going to write out a version of what I've written here, and give him a chance to do something, cos I haven't told him these things, at least not very clearly.

Got to go now, thanks everyone... XX

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 30/11/2010 12:25

He sounds like a lot of hard work. He sounds like a child that has never grown up and never even considered taking on adult responsibilities.

I dont quite see how you can live like this.

It sounds like met young, and YOU have developed and grown up, and he hasnt.

Moving to a different country is extremely difficult. I have done so twice, and even harder with a child.

Why dont you suggest he moves ahead of you and get settled, and you join him when he has found a flat, and work? Meanwhile, you keep your flat and your job and your child settled where you are now, in case he does not succeed?

It would be utter madness for you all to uproot just for a pipe dream, especially with a man that spends his time on hobbies, and does not have confidence to work.

If he can manage to move to france, find a flat, and work, then, maybe it can work out.

He speaks French, I assume?

onlyjuststillme · 30/11/2010 13:03

Living in intelectual awe. I have been there - It has taken me 9 years away from it, a husband and a baby (And seeing his facebook) to realise that the person I thought I was in love with was not the person he actually was at all. Your baby, and your grief, have made you take off your rose tinted glasses. Now have a real look around and figure out what you want.

I am so sorry you are going through all of this, and so sorry about your dad.

HansieMom · 30/11/2010 13:48

QuinShadows has an excellent idea--he goes to France, finds a job, and a flat.

Look at the hurdles he would have to conquer--amass some money, buy a ticket, pack, find a room to rent, where to rent, where to eat, find a job (where? what?), buy groceries, use public transit. Do you think he could do all that? I don't know if he could manage it. He might turn into a quivering mass of jelly.

QuintessentialShadows · 30/11/2010 13:54

That way, it is not YOU standing in his way.

The point is, he has to do it HIMSELF.
You cant do it for him.

And this relates to anything he does.
Be it start a business, move to France, find work. Prepare for his job.

He seems too used to YOU helping him along.

I am not a teacher. I have not studied pedagogics, but I teach. I teach Norwegian as a foreign language to mature students (mostly academics and scientists). The very idea of getting my husband to help me prepare my lessons, and practice my lesson in front of him, is absurd. Although, he would possibly be the best to advice, as he has himself learnt Norwegian as a mature professional, having done a 1 year full time course. I teach a fast track evening course. Frankly, if I were to ask this of him, he would laugh in my face, and would possibly be overstretched himself. We just dont have the time.

Baileysandice · 30/11/2010 17:56

NO SEX FOR 4 YEARS???!!!! FFS, what on earth are YOU getting from this relationship??????

StuffingGoldBrass · 30/11/2010 21:03

You will feel so much better when you cut this parasite loose. Because that's all he is, a parasite.

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