Am I doing the right thing taking the children away from their father?

[Gangle]

Very long story which I have posted about before but basically DH and I have been together for over 10 years in a completely dysfunctional relationship. In a nutshell he's a bully and emotionally abusive and I've been on the verge of leaving many times. We have 2 DSs, 2.8 and 8 months. DS2 was't planned and when I found out I was pregnant I was on the verge of leaving DH but then decided not to do anything whilst pregnant and, even though the relationship is mostly difficult and stressful, I am still not sure separating is the right thing for the children. Overall he is a good father and I know he adores the children. Anyway, last year he decided to take a job in the US for 12 months beginning last June. He claimed it was a great post which would really help his career in the UK and expected me to join him there as I would on maternity leave with DS2 so work wouldn't be an issue. I had a huge dilemma over whether to go as I felt I didn't want to leave my house and support network and be in a foreign country with only him for company whilst the relationship was so bad. I basically let him leave and agreed that we would follow although at that point I wasn't decided. Once he left he called several times a day telling me how much he missed his children and begging me to come so I ended up joining him in the US about 4 months ago. Although I've actually enjoyed being in the US and DH's job has allowed him more time to spend with DSs, our relationship is much the same - we argue all the time and have no respect for each other. In addition, I am due back at work just before Christmas. I will have taken 9 months maternity leave but am using holiday to do a gradual return (working part-time) so it'll be easier for the children to adapt. DH is making me feel terrible that I am leaving the country and taking the children back to the UK when I could infact take an extra 3 months. However, his job is the US pays much less than his UK job so he can't really afford to support us other than paying the rent and bills on our US property although we are still paying the mortgage and all other outgoings on our London property. I have shares that I could sell if I did really want to stay in the US but I want to get back to London for other reasons - to see my friends and family and to just be in my own home. I also worry that taking longer than 9 months won't go down well at work. Also, I am tired of the day to day arguing with DH and having noone to turn to, plus I am no help with the DSs other than the tiny amount DH does. Am I being selfish in wanting to go back to the UK? I do wonder how DSs will cope but to be honest both are very close to me and not very close to DH, possibly because I've done everything for them from the start. I feel terrible as I don't want to separate them from their father but I need to get back to work and also live somewhere I want to be, not that I don't like where we are, it's just that my life, job, family (aside from DSs) and friends aren't here. Are my priorities wrong? DH is back in June anyway and I've agreed to come back for the month of March anyway (my boss has agreed to this) so they won't be separated for longer than 2 months at a time but I do worry about how it will impact them. Sorry for the ramble.

People more qualified than me will be along very soo; but in the meantime, my answer would be that

1. No you are not selfish. It is not selfish to want to live without someone who bullies you.
2. Your priorites are not wrong. They are you and your children. These are the most important ones. If your DH does not behave well to you, it does not matter how good a father he is to the children. He is treating you badly; they see this and are (most likely) upset by it.
3. Your DH is trying to make you feel guilty in order to make you stay. He is trying to control you just as he does with the emotional abuse you mention. He wants you to put him first, not your children and certainly not you.

It's so easy to tell you to leave him, but this is the perfect opportunity. Take it. Judging from your post, it is what you should do for your wellbeing and your chuildren's well being. You know this, this is why you want to go. But your DH is manipulating you and undermining your confidence in yourself and he is making you doubt yourself.

Don't doubt yourself. Go back to the UK. Leave him.

I hope others will offer you good advice too. I have to go to bed now as I have to make a work trip tomorrow. I hope you can find the strength to go.

I'm the last person to be giving advice about this sort of thing (in a similar situation myself), but it sounds like you'd be better off in the UK. Financially, emotionally and practically.

It sounds like the question is bigger than whether you return to the UK sooner rather than later? Do you see this as a trial run to see how you would cope on your own permanently? If you're being bullied and abused, you and your DC will be much better off out of that poisonous atmosphere and back home.

Oh and of course you're not being selfish.

Catitainahatita, thanks so much. That one person thinks I'm not being selfish makes me feel so much better. You are right when you say the children see me being upset/treated badly and this upsets them, especially my 2 year old but DH always turns it around, saying, you mustn't be so emotional, it upsets the children, having just said or done something horrible to cause the upset, and he himself is allowed to behave however he likes! Also, he was the one who left in the first place, not me. I came here purely so that the children could see their father. Good luck with your trip. x

And do not sell those shares. (Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on the stock market either.) If you do leave him you'll wish you still had those shares.

Findanewname, the dcs and I are due to fly back next Tuesday but just having last minute doubts about whether I am doing the right thing. Change, even for the better, is always so scary and I'm having to get on the plane with the DCs alone which is scary in itself (doesn't help that I'm terrified of flying!) I do partly see this as a trial run to see how manage alone but I already know the answer to that because we had 2 months alone before joining DH in the US - we managed fine and I was much happier but did worry about the DCs not seeing their father. At this point I just want the time and space to bring up the children without constant arguments and criticism from him. I also want to be back in our own home with their own rooms where I can get help from family and friends. Also, if we are going to separate then it's even more important that I don't burn any bridges at work as I will need the income.

I couldn't go to bed without checking back here first. It sounds like (to me) that you are a very capable person and you will manage the trip back just fine (and probably in a calmer happier atmosphere that if your DH came too).

It also sounds like that you have decided to leave him and are (very understandably) a lot worried about your future. But as you say, you coped without him in the UK; in fact, you admit that you were happier.

Seze the moment and get your life organised while he's not undermining your confidence at every term.

Rememmber you are not being selfish. You are putting your kids first. The selfish one is him. He abuses you, upsets the children and doesn't pull his weight in the house or in the family(as I think you imply).

I really have to go to bed now. If I have internet in my hotel I'll try and check in on this thread tomorrow to keep up the cheerleading in your behalf. I'm In Mexico by the way, so my timetable is very similar to your's.

I think that what you are doing is sensible. You are thinking long term, which is the responsible thing to do regardless of your possible futures either with your dh or on your own.

Did your children miss their father terribly before you moved out to the US? It doesn't seem to me that different, it will be three months to March, and then two to June, so fairly similar. As he's only there temporarily you'd be unwise to relocate for longer I think, and if you may have to go it alone then keeping up with both your work and your support network seems vital to me.

You are not taking the children away from him. He took himself away from them, by moving to a job in another country for purely selfish reasons. I remember your original thread on which pretty much everyone said don't go. Well, under the circumstances you did and I'm glad you (mostly) enjoyed the time there, but you have a life back in the UK and your children need your income as they can't live on his, due to his own self-centred career choices. You need to do what is best for you, them and your career. Your H is thinking only of himself - how much he (says he) will miss them, not how much they'll miss him - sounds like they won't, much! And he'll be back soon anyway.

I remember you! Unless I am very much mistaken this guy is a monster! You are insane to be still with him (in the best possible sense)!

I think I told you to run like the wind on your last threads. You are not being selfish, not a jot, you are doing the best thing for your boys.

If you are looking for selfish, look at your DH, he is an abusive nasty piece of work, not a man, and certainly not one that you'd want as a role model for your boys.

Please just be brave, please free yourself from this dreadful man.

Your only mission in life now is to maximise your savings, make best use of your money, don't sell the shares, hold onto them.

Do a search on your old threads and see what was said then? It'll help you remember what a horrid person this H of yours is.

he is coming back in June so from june 2011 he will be able to have a same-country relationship with his children. many many children are seaprated from their parent for that amount of time for different reasons. parentn in the army/for ajob etc.

he chose to take the US job.

you need to think longer term, you need your job and your independence.

it is not selfsih.

even in best of situations, if something happened to your DH you would need your job to provide for the DC.

so in practical terms you need to maintain your job and in practical terms DC stay with you and skype/email/phone their dad til he returns to UK.

he may be good father but he isnt good for you.and it isnt good for DC to live in a household where the parents are arguing.

so come back, and when H returns have him live separately and build his "good father" relationship wtih his children .

you dont have to put up with his arguments and bullying . you dont have to live together for him to be a "good father" to his DC.

You are doing your dcs no favours if you keep them in an atmosphere where there is abuse and unpleasantness and they have to watch you being belittled by your H. That is not the model of family life that you want them to grow up with.

Your priorities are being right in taking them back to the UK. You are not being selfish - you are doing a difficult thing that is in their best interests.

Your new life starts here!

I'm not a lawyer, but what if your H decides to stay, if the DC's stay too long in the US then they will be settled and he may be able to stop you legally from leaving with them.

Speaking as someone who gave up a career - don't do it - return to your job in the UK, and your family and friends.

Is he the American Doc who moved to a lower paying medical research job?

Being selfish can be a good thing, especially when you and your children will benefit.

Of course he doesn't want you to leave the US. How is he going to control you when you're in a different country and not so isolated?

I know it's easy to say and having been there myself, it can be hard to know what is wrong and right. Trust your instincts.

Is your marriage/home life happy enough to give up your job and independence, and the financial independence of being able to start a new life? You even have a job to go back to and some time, on your own with your dc, to have a clear time without your dh around, to decide your way ahead.

You have a good support network in the U.K. as well.

Is the way your H treats you and the fallout effect on daily life with your dc worth you persevering in the U.S.? Is he kind to you? No, I don't think so. You said he was a bully and emotionally abusive. (Haven't read your back thread).

Haven't read your backthread. Have you and your DH done anything to improve your marriage jointly - to make a happier home for the dc? Does he accept any of the blame for things not being nice between you? Or, is it always your fault?

He is coming back by six months approx to the U.K.

You need to leave asap because if you don't, afaik the kids will be domiciled in the USA and you won't be allowed to remove them, effectively forcing you to remain there, and with your husband. I would be exceedingly careful on that front, given all you have said about your ex.

thanks PerfectStorm. Do you know how long we would have to be here for the children to be domiciled here? Over 6 months?

I would be amazed if a court considered us domiciled here given our ongoing links to the UK, and the father's position here being only temporary.

Thanks all, so glad that most seem to think I am doing the right thing. And yes, it's so much better for the children to not be in that type of atmosphere, with almost daily arguments. I suppose the quandry at this point is that I could, if I wanted to, stay another few months and then go back to my job in the UK, as I can take up to the end of Feb on maternity leave, but I just don't think I want to. If we had a wonderful relationship then maybe. So confusing as well as I am associating returning to the UK with going back to work which is maybe why I am trying to put it off.

You are going to leave this guy at some stage anyway. It might as well be now. Separation of parents is supposedly harder for children the older they get, so get it done with. Be careful about the Hague Convention, as perfectstorm said- get on that plane and sort it out when you get home. as I understand it there is no set time to establish domicile- it depends on the circs I think. But if he started a case in the US you'd have to stay till it was heard- lots of hassle, expense, incredible stress, even if you won in the end. don't put yourself in that situation for a crappy relationship.

I remember you from last year gangle. Your DH is a doctor isn't he?

You know he is abusive, it will be better for the DC not to brought up to think that is a good relationship model.

Not one of us have said "Oh you have been harsh, give him another chance!". We have all said leave now!

Be strong, and dont think you have to do this for your DC. Do it for yourself! You deserve to be happy and free from abuse.

Gangle I have no idea, but I think you need to look into it asap. It would be such an awful situation to be in. And if he's a dr then he could probably find a permanent job over there without difficulty and then argue that they are settled in schools etc.

I think if you stay then you really, really do need to check out your position on that score.

"But if he started a case in the US you'd have to stay till it was heard"

If their system is anything like ours that would take almost a year, and they would assess domicile/status quo at the point of hearing, which would mean the kids were very settled in schools etc over there and he might have a good case. Box clever about moving back here asap and get them into schools and a home before you think about formal separation is my advice. If he isn't trustworthy and you talk about a breakup while over there, he may well decide he wants to stay all of a sudden and keep the kids there, as a way to force you to stay as well.

I don't mean to scare you, but the law is not always something that protects people, because in protecting some it will disadvantage others.

Gangle, go back to uk as soon as possible and don't worry about taking dc away from that atmosphere. I now live alone with 3 dc abroad as I must stay here. I stayed far too long in an unhappy marriage and only had the courage to get out when my 9 yer old son started talking and acting like the male example in our house. It was hard, esp hard as I wanted to go back to UK and couldn't but it has got better and my dc have benefitted enormously (you do them no favours to stay) In such a relationship you can't afford to stay abroad and lose rights to return to UK with dc-go as soon as possible and good luck.