Round and Round the Mulberry Bush.....

[GhostTown]

Help! I feel like I?m going round in a giant everlasting circle where shopping for food, cooking dinner and hoovering/tidying are concerned.

Asked DP (nicely) again last night whether he would please start the tidying up, check whether we have food in for dinner, run the hoover round the lounge if it needs it and start dinner instead of just collapsing in front of the Playstation after work

He works late two nights a week (finishes 7-7.30 on those nights) The other evenings he gets home before me and nine times out of ten he is glued to a game by the time I get in with no thought given to dinner etc .

The weird thing is, whenever I raise this subject he just gets really defensive and starts making things up. Last night he was busy telling me that he hoovers twice a week every week and especially on Friday?s (he doesn?t!!) plus he has been buying and cooking ALL of our dinners for the last fortnight. More rubbish!!

Oh, and I?m the one who doesn?t like to take any responsibility for household tasks........it?s the total opposite unless of course I am delusional.

I can?t take anymore I feel like I?m going mad, why would he make this stuff up when he must KNOW it isn?t true? Plus he argues that he doesn?t get any acknowledgment for the things he does ? well, nor do I!! Don?t hear him walking around constantly thanking and praising me for all that I do.

We have this same argument every three months or so when I get sick and tired of being the one who sorts out food and general environment when I get in first from work so that we can have a nice(er) evening and he does naff all.

I don?t think I?m asking for the impossible here do I? DP says that my expectations are too high and I put him under pressure with unreasonable demands

He sounds like a child as opposed to a partner . If your both working it should be 50 / 50 , anything less is unacceptable.

The making stuff up is worrying , its manipulative and puts a stop to any further discussions. Its also an attempt to mess with your perception of things . Aside from the housework this on its own would have me questioning whether i wanted to continue things. Does he make stuff up in general , ie , during arguments ?

Thanks dignified, yes he has a habit of saying something in arguments then if I quote it back at him to clarify (e.g so you what you're saying is I'm unreasonable because etc etc....) he immediately says ' no, that's not what I said at all'

He also has a habit of refraiming things he has said. It's hard to describe as it's so weird. Say for example I point out that I didn't like the tone he used when telling me something, he then immediately says it again in the ideal more caring tone of voice he thinks he should have used. Except then he has convinced himself that he did use the ideal version.

Probably not explaining this very well but when he repeats himself in the 'ideal' version it sounds lovely and would not have got me upset in the first place.

Also obesssed with not being accused to have said anything he didn't and being called a liar (I never have called him that)

I know exactly what you mean Ghost , its called gaslighting and its not nice , have a search on the net. Its usually the tactic of an emotional abuser.

The rewriting of history is also unpleasant and is an attempt to inflict his version of reality onto you. You know exactly what he said , or what you said , yet your told your wrong. This isnt on. At all.

What happens if you try to discuss these things with him ? Does he sulk / shout / walk away , or just tell you it didnt happen ?

Oh, bit shocked at the gaslighting. Have read about that on the internet before but never sounds like it applies to my situation.

It seems a bit incredible (to me) that DP would be doing what he does deliberately in every discussion we ever have.

He's so convincing though when he does this that I think he really believes it himself when he changes the story within a couple of mins of the original statement and 'flips' to the more acceptable version.

Or totally twists what I am saying into something I would simply never even imply yet alone say.

To answer your question as what happens if I discuss with him - if I push the point he will get more and more angry, shouts 'don't tell me that I said something when I clearly didn't, I can't stand it when people accuse me of that, 'I am not a liar' then walks away from the 'discussion'

Though he'd never be physically aggressive to me, I do end up feeling a bit intimidated by the shouting and general strength of feeling and let it drop. Then end up feeling really upset in private that I would appear to be nuts and totally misunderstand what he tells me.

Thanks for reading this, it's quite a relief to be able to talk about it. Not nice to feel like a crazy person with her back against the wall in these situations :(

I know Ghost .
Its interesting that he accuses you of doing the very thing that hes doing , eg telling you that you said something when you didnt.

And it does seem quite incredible that hes doing it on purpose. I used to make excuses for him , eventually i became convinced it was me with the problem . It wasnt , and isnt. Last week we had a conversation where he said something extremeley hurtfull and inapropriate.

I stated that i found that very hurtfull . Thats all . He immediateley screamed at me that i had put words in his mouth , that i twist everything he says , in fact everybody says i twist things , he never said that (and repeated his initial insult ) , rant rant rant , slam door , end of discussion.

The thing to ask yourself is if hes not doing it deliberateley , does it happen at work , with his freinds ? Does he ever misunderstand and yell at his boss ? I put up with this nonsense for a long time . You cannot have a conversation with someone like this as these tactics block any further discussion. Your wrong. End of .

Eventually you get beaten down and stop trying to raise things because you know exactly what will happen , and thats what they want . It works well . I spent years thinking it was me with the problem. I came on here and read about it , i was horrified and noted that he never misunderstood any of the positives , he only " misunderstood " when it was something he didnt want to hear.

I tried to raise it , and had the usual twisting , rewriting of history , i am mad , ect ect ect. And for a split second , i saw a tiny little smirk and realised he had been playing me like this for years, and clearly enjoyed it.

I would read everything you can , and in the meantime dont react or defend yourself from absurd claims .

I thought you sounded like someone who has experience of this herself. Commiserations!!

Your last post sounded exactly like a scene from my life during a heated discussion/row.

I doubt he does this at work and he won't say boo to any of his friends so a no there as well.

Interestingly enough though whenever I have told him I feel like a crazy person during our discussions he suddenly turns really understanding and reasonable (sometimes)

"And for a split second , i saw a tiny little smirk and realised he had been playing me like this for years, and clearly enjoyed it"

{shock] - that is awful dignified - are you staying with him or do you have a plan to get out of your relationship?

I divorced him Ghost , and im very glad i did . I think theres something very wrong with people who behave like this. The gaslighting was only part of it , he was lazy and childish, manipulative , a whiner , extremeley verbally abusive , and he pestered for sex , all that sort of thing.

I had counselling afterwards which was invaluable , and learned a lot. I realised i had allowed him to define me so when he said " you said a b , c " , i would automaticly doubt myself and say " when did i say that ?" , instead of " No, i didnt , stop it ".

He still trys to define me , tells me what i am , what i think , or that i KNOW hes the best husband ever. I rareley defend myself or explain , i dont really care what he thinks , hes a very damaged person incapable of relating to people in a normal way .

I wouldnt defend yourself or engage , its what they want and they can then argue with you about what youve aparently said or accused them of . Watch out though because when you stop playing the game and feeding them , they often step it up a level.

People like this *enjoy" your discomfort and frustration , it makes them feel powerful , otherwise they would resolve the issue instead of keeping it going . I refer to my ex as an emotional leech , he spent the bulk of his time being provocative and trying to initiate a reaction out of me in order to get the emotional feedback he craved . He did this by gaslighting usually , but also by doing things he knew upset me , like leaving crap all over , groping me , driving badly , you name it .
Disgusting really.

Gaslight on Film 4 now!! How serendipitous

"he was lazy and childish, a whiner, pestered for sex" - check check and check. Oh dear!!

Although there's no verbal abuse in my case and the twisting of words happens only when I have raised anything for discussion.

What I mean is, left to his own devices I would never know that these traits even existed in him since he never voluntarily raises anything he wants to talk about - bizarre!

Well I'm glad to hear you divorced your not so dear H and thank you for throwing a bit of light onto my situation :)

@ sanebrain. That film seems to be on a loop. How nice of them to loop it round again just in time for this thread!

Something that might be usefull Ghost - Make a list of all the things he accuses you of . Ponder each honestly and see if they apply to you. Often they dont , the person is projecting and putting their faults onto you.

So far your H claims
You dont take any responsibility for household tasts
He doesnt get any acknowledgement for what he does do
You have unreasonable expectations and you put him under pressure
You accuse him of saying stuff he hasnt
You call him a liar

Does that sound like a description of you , or him ? Dont let him define you , you know who you are and what you said , and what you heard. If you listen very carefully they are often telling you what they are , and better still , what motivates them.

Hes not going to volunatarily raise anything because things are working out well for him at the moment.He gets to play on his game and leave everything else to you , hes not got much to complain about !

Well, this just gets better.....

I am also 'nasty' if I tell him something I'm not happy with (to do with him) and sometimes a 'bully' as well.

Had no idea I am such a horrible character

Heavens, glad I posted now as one of the topics of hot debate is the fact he won't discuss our future, namely having children. I am no spring chicken and don't have the luxury of just avoiding the topic and hope one day he brings it up for discussion/gets all keen.

Sooo, my saying I am upset over not even having the option of discussing children etc with him he heard:

'so you're saying I have to give you a child now because you're panicking about time running out'

Errrm yes dear, that's exactly what I'm saying ..... told him he could use that line on his next girlfriend when she asks why the two of us split up.

Children indeed, he can stick them!

Do you pick on him as well Ghost ?

Mine would snivell that i obviously didnt love him any more , as all i did was point out his faults and accuse him of doing things he hadnt. He,d swing from saying i was a horrible person to he was a horrible person , boo hoo ect.

Its probably just as well you dont have children with him. They would probabaly overtake him emotionally when they were about 5.

ROFL dignified - you were obviously married to DP's twin :)

Forgot about the picking on him, poor little lamb. And the 'you don't love me anymore' - I get it constantly over everything.

He doesn't understand why that just makes me angry and thinks I ought to issue reassurance on the subject for hours.

Was thinking yesterday, oh dear he's due to ask 'you don't love me anymore do you' soon and am soooooo tempted to just say 'you're absolutely right'

Trouble is that would then lead to whining about how he's always known this and I've never loved him yadda yadda yadda.

Is there a sort of classification of this type of character do you know (like NPD, AS etc) Would be interesting to do some more specific research into this.

I noticed that gaslighting and NPD often came up together on google searches.

I found Patricia Evan's books useful too.

He clearly has mental health issues. Don't let them make you think that it's you! The projection is such that, he's telling you, in his accusations, everything that actually is wrong with him.

When I look back at what happened to me it's all so obvious now.

I put Gaslight on....I can hardly stand to watch it.

I honestly think my ex had Narc traits , he had no conscience and would screw anyone over if he thought he could get away with it. He would record people , tell lies , boast of things he hadnt done and would adopt others opinions as his own. He almost didnt have his own personality , instead it seemed he had adopted fragments of every one elses. He was like ablack hole , you could throw the world in and it wouldnt be enough .

He was also a victim and would try to get everyone to feel sorry for him by making up perceived slights.

In general though i think they are just abusive charecters , born from a sense of entitlemnt and often overbearing / abusive mothers. Theres loads of brilliant books that explain all this very well , ive got loads and no longer need them , ill happily post them to you if your interested , pm me if you like. Once you know what your looking for you can spot these charecters a mile off.

Groan , the afternoons / full days of the sniffling , the red eyes , you dont love me , you never did , i need more love and affection , and various other examples of how i needed to give more while he sat there pouting and snotting . Ugh.

I think they resort to this when there "attention " levels are low , its not genuine , just another way to feed off their substitute mummy . I could actually spot it coming and if i dared not respond he would threaten to kill himself because id be happy then apparently.

Theres something wrong with them , they try to make it your job to prop them up emotionally , you know what happens though , when you need the occasional prop up. Does he phone / text constantly too ? Whats his personal hygeine like ?
Mine used to Stink. Grim !

Mine was rubbish in bed and couldnt last more than a couple of seconds . Sometimes it was over before anything had even happened.

It annoyed me , and he would grope and make schoolboy type comments all the time. I read " Living with the Dominater " and learned that far from being premature ejaculation , it was actually deliberate and a way to humiliate me.

He,d also try to have sex with me when i was asleep , tired , or ill . One time i was being sick and he was holding my hair . Next thing he starts to grope me while im vomiting and sulked because funnily enough , i didnt feel like it.

He actually said to me " I was being nice to you earlier when you were being sick , i held your hair ect , and what did i get back for it ? Nothing !"

DP has quite a strong conscience but does lie on occasion (if it'll save me getting angry at him for example) and does the boasting thing and taking on others opinions as well!!

Oh and the biggest victim you'll ever meet. He still remembers slights from his childhood and incidents where he lost a beloved toy to another child when quite little FGS!!!!!!!

The shocked smiley doesn't even come close to describe what I'm feeling reading all of that in print. First time I've heard DP described almost perfectly.

I neeeeed more love and affection - quite!! Together with ' I have needs too you know' Never was sure why he added the 'too' since he doesnt think I have any needs of my own.

"substitute mummy" - another stab of recognition there.

Personal hygiene is impeccable though and as for phoning or texting - don't be silly, a) he doesn't have time to 'chew the fat' with me and b)it's far too expensive to ring/text. Since he is also a tightarse

Those books do sound v. interesting and I'd be more than happy to pay you for them and postage. I will PM you re. those dignified.

Eeeew - just seen the groping while being ill. That has to be the worst, you poor thing!!!!

Bleurrrrghh.....off to get a bucket.....!

Not happened to me that one but he did once laugh his head off when I was having a funny turn after drinking too much wine one saturday night. Never forgot how scared I was and him just laughing like a hysterical schoolboy.....

Re childhood slights , when mine was a boy the kid up the road ( Nigel ) once nicked his bag of marbles off him , various differant types of marbles , and several " dobbers " including a very unusual one bought from holiday.

He would often look him up on Freinds Reunited and rant that "Fxxxxxx Nigel who nicked my marbles has got married / new job / car " and i would have to listen to the whole story again , including a detailed description of this special dobber

I also had endless " jokes " made about me , about my apearance , parenting , housekeeping ect. Of course if i objected to being the butt of his jokes i had no sense of humour and couldnt take a joke. Im too sensitive you see.

Horrific driver too , tight , and would pry and invade my privacy , once installing a key logger on my pc and then proudly showing it to me when we had freinds round {shock]

He,d bleat he needed more affection . Id get angry and he,d plead with me to at least try , couldnt i stroke his hair or kiss him more often ? He neeeeeded it. Never mind that i never went near him as he took every opportunity to grope and perv.
I dont miss him. At all.

Am sat here laughing my backside off re. Fxxxxxx Nigel who nicked my marbles - that is EXACTLY what DP is like.

If I have to hear the story about the Star Wars Bobba Fett his mother gave to one of her mindees back in the day I will strangle DP :)

The amount of resentments and regrets he has stored up are simply staggering. Esp. when he knows I had an awful childhood with shedloads of abuse levelled at me every day -funnily enough though it hasn't left me with any 'effing Nigel nicked my effing marbles' stories though

I don't even have hate phantasies about my parents who would be richly deserving of the effing Nigel title

That sounded a bit self praising there didn't it but what I mean is I have often suspected that he didn't have too bad a time of it as a child since he's got room for such childish regrets and angers. Though that's what he likes to infer.

"Id get angry and he,d plead with me to at least try , couldnt i stroke his hair or kiss him more often" - groan!! Ditto here. Favourite subject at present - the welcome home kiss and how he never gets one.

Ghost i didnt have the best parents either. I actually think my ex had quite a priveledged upbringing and was pampered to by his mummy . Maybe its the more they get the more they want ? Their sense of entitlement is quite astonishing i think.

Does he have any real freinds ? Mine had superficial aquaintances and imagined he had a deep special freindship with people he,d only met several times , eg " Oh yes , ive known Tony for years , me and him get on really well , blah blah ".
Id be " Umm isnt he the guy who fitted our kitchen 5 years ago , who we havent seen since " ?