DS's (12) Father says he can't help DS properly with emotional problems.

[MittzyBittzyTeenyWeeny]

Because he feels as if he has been excluded from the family home and doesn't know all the 'subtleties and nuances' of the situation.

DS has self confidence, minor bullying at school and is going through a court case in which he was victim to two counts of common assault.

His Dad left after what I believe was emotional abuse and controlling. It was hard and painful and we are 16 months down from him leaving.

I have worked hard to try help heal the rift between them mostly for DS's sake, as he loves his Dad but is confused for his own feelings for him.

Some of the bullying occurred on MSN and his Dad was at our house, I asked him for advice and tried to explain what was going on, it was quite simple, but he keeps saying he can't help properly because he isn't here. I am starting to feel really crap.
DS doesn't confide in him and he himself gets defensive and shuts his Dad out, his Dad sort of shrugs and asks what he is supposed to do as he feels he can't work on their relationship because he sees so little of them.

He sees them on Tuesday nights, Thursday nights and for a 24 hr period over the weekend.

I pointed out it wasn't an issue when he was separated from his older son's Mum but he said that was different, 'that was then and this is now'.

There is quite a lot of angst between them but has been for years, not just since Ex left us.

The whole things catapulted me into quite deep depression which I am now working on but he also says he is being punished for my mental health problems. .

I have made steps forward but finding it hard to rationalise whether he is right and I am jeopardising my Son's relationship with him.

it's what these people are like mittz unfortunately.

my mother likes little people whose world she rules. your ex is saying really that he can't contribute unless he can control the whole show from the epicentre. they can't just have normal relationships of respect and give and take.

Malinkey, DS is confused. Yes he wants to see his Father but then admits he struggles when something goes wrong.

It is hard to describe. Ex can be very very lovely so it is never constant. He says if I am around Ex just chastises him normally, but if it is just them he goes over the top. I have challenged Ex about it but didn't get very far.

My Dad is the same. Capable of being awesome one minute and you think, 'hey, this is OK actually' and then suddenly something is said, or a certain tone is used and that sense of OKness evaporates.

I do sometimes wonder why my DC's . He was remarkable with his older 2 sons and never raised his voice or used the tones he does with mine.

I just wonder how he would treat your DC in front of a new woman?

But you do have to just step out of this, its like two kids squabbling you need to back off and let them get on with it (and step in only if safety is concerned). Good luck!

He would be brilliant mummytime. The odd things is, as Our DC's came along, he continued to be ever patient with his children and struggled with our DS.

maybe the relationship with their mother was different to his relationship with you?

if for example she didn't tolerate his shit then his boundaries maybe didn't get blurred. haven't put that well sorry. my head hurts.

"may also be because she's young and less of a whole person to deal with iyswim. easier for some people to love little ones than older ones because they don't confront them so much and they don't reflect back your behaviour so much".

I so agree with this Satan. My dad is similar, loves my dd to pieces because if she's 'naughty' he blames me for 'winding her up' so can continue the charade that she is all good (for good re unquestionning/pliable/adoring/compliant etc). When my DN is 'naughty' he gets annoyed because he can't blame his mother the same way he blames me.

Iyswim?

Oh his relationship with their Mother was very different to the one with me. Hard to describe as I would partly look like a stereotypical second partner but I think she gave him a run for his money.

And I got all the crap dumped on me for all the issues.

My father just blames everything on mine, Mum's and DD's gender. I get angrier with him for Mums' sake now. Although he does get to me sometimes I think he is a bit of a nugget.

Ex is very good generally at being an excellent Father in company, so it seems everything is totally contained in the dynamic between DS and him. He is either very clever and manipulative or genuinely has personality issues and really doesn't see how it is. Poor DS though.

I am fucking exhausted by it but at least have a modicum of experience to rationalise it.

sounds like ds is his scapegoat.

all i can say is try and help ds see that this is his dad not him because when you're the one who gets it all and others don't you tend to think, it's me, it's something wrong with me, they're not like this with everyone. and the person doing it actively tries to make them feel like it is them, they're defective, not good enough, have issues etc. when really they're just the unlucky one who got chosen to take all the shit out on. often because they had a stronger personality or were more questioning or something about them confronted the perpetrator with themselves or behaviour.

i speak from experience of being the scapegoat.

Thank you Satan, but I am sorry you speak from experience, I do my best already but will try to bear that a little more in mind.

Would like an undignified rant at the moment about my Dad and My Ex but have got this far without too much of that sort of thing.....

well maybe you need to get a little bit angry to get strong.

I'm going to be brave and offer advice. I'd suggest explaining things to DS - age-appropriately, but pulling no punches. Get someone else (school counsellor? aunty/uncle?) to do it if you're going to go all soppy and confused. It can't have escaped your notice that the children who are repeatedly bullied are the ones who've been conditioned to it by their carers. You can't let this carry on, you'll be setting DS for a world of pain in his future.

My mother did well in explaining to us that Dad was unreasonable & unfair. She did very, very badly in asking us to sympathise and excuse him. DS should be given to understand that some people are bullies, like it or not, and his dad is one of them. Tell him he never has to put up with being bullied. No-one 'deserves' it, that's why bullying is a contemptible pursuit. Say you realise he has conflicting feelings about his dad - that's understandable - and he has the choice to terminate, reduce or continue contact, as he feels best for his own wellbeing.

Then hand responsibility back to the pair of them. DS is not to use you as a buffer when he's with his father, but you will support him if he chooses to cancel visits.

I'm not a parent - you probably need more input from other manipulated mums.

Grace - really thoughtful post

Thank you Grace, that is a really thoughtful post as Brian says, and very sage advice.

I think along with the other posters comments, it gives me something tangible to start building on. Thank you.

As for Anger, Satan. In general, I don't feel anger, and never have, especially where I am how I treated is concerned. My drive to end the relationship came very much from the drunken abuse that DS was suffering . But I don't feel anger very much and I don't know how really. If I am kicked, mostly I would apologise for being in the way. It is coming through counselling, but if not anger, then maybe some self respect. When I have experienced it, I have turned it on myself and self harmed.

So my EX has undeniably treated us like crap, and I will defend the children, but feel sad and guilty and tortured when he tells me how sad and lonely he is. Because, and I know how pathetic this will sound, somehow, it is OK because it is just me.

I can't confront my abuser, because I might make him feel guilty and bad.

I can't confront my Dad because he is now old and I can't bear to see him cry and couldn't hurt my Mum.

It's like I have been swallowing bombs as in cartoons, Hence the counselling.

I will be OK I think, but DC's need to be more so.

Thank you again x