What is remorse?

[itsallmadness]

Just a thought. Having read threads on affairs, one thing that crops up in every one, is that the cheating partner should show remorse, where a couple try to make their relationship work, after the affair.

If the cheating partner apologises and says they are sorry, is this remorse? If the partner has cheated and lied, how do we know if what they are saying is true?

If that partner kept saying they were sorry for all the pain they caused and that they never loved the affair partner only me etc etc, BUT how do you know that these are not just words?

How else should the cheating partner show remorse?

By his actions.
Staying loyal after discovery, doing all he can to make you feel secure again., answering all your questions (not giving too many detailsin order to minimise hurt),
putting you first at all times.......

Remorse in this scenario means genuinely understanding how their actions caused pain to you, genuinely caring about that pain and putting effort into making amends. It means recognising that a new relationship has to be be built, being motivated to build it with you, and having patience with your vulnerability (which they caused).

Any fool can say a few short words. Actions & feelings are what count.

Doing everything they possibly can to make you feel loved, wanted and special again. This involves them tuning into how you are feeling and what you are thinking. If they do this then they can recognise when you need to be reassured, when you need cheering up, when you need a hug etc etc.

Volunteering information (eg, when their phone beeps, saying, without being asked, who it was).

Leaving mobiles, pcs etc accessible
Being completely open
Texting to say, I'm going to be at the gym/in a meeting for the next couple of hours if you're trying to get hold of me.
Making plans for the future
Seeking out your company
Suggesting things to do together (doesn't have to be anything special - going for a walk; watching a tv programme etc)
Acknowledging 'triggers' which might upset you (people/places/dates)
Looking for ways to help make your life easier.

If they're doing all these things, then they are thinking about you and trying to demonstrate how much they care about you. It's easy to say sorry and not mean it. It's quite hard to keep doing all the above if your heart isn't in it.

Although I have heard the words, I haven't been able to forgive. I put up a barrier to my dh when he tries to act 'normal' and then he sulks. I just can't get over the lies and wondering whether my being difficult is stopping him showing 'remorse'.

There is much more to what has happened in my story but
I just don't know if dh is doing enough to convince me to stay with him.

How long ago did he have his affair ?

I'm not sure 'normal' is what is called for. As ItsGraceAgain says, a new relationship has to be built and this entails a change in behaviour on both sides.

itsallmadness its not for you to get over anything this is a devastating blow to you and your relationship ..

its for him to accept your mis-givings, your hurt, your feelings and respect them...

the moment he truly realises what he has done to you and your relationship he will understand why you have to go through a myriad of feelings before things will be different...

yes they sulk but that is just selfish behaviour, he has to show he truly and deeply realises what he has done and will accept your reactions will not always be what he desires, you have to work through this at your own pace and he has to accept this...

Over time your feelings will change and so will your relationship...no you shouldn't spend every waking moment dwelling on his past, but equally he cannot expect you to forget ..its about accepting each other..being honest and working through whatever it takes..

Thank you for your messages.

Dh and I do not communicate well since I found out he spent a weekend away with OW, after nine months of no contact. Dh made his excuses but for me it was the final straw, the final chance that he blew. He refuses to move out because he says he only loves me and DCs. He would rather die than move out. Although this is a blackmail tactic, I have not got my head around seeing a solicitor as i can not believe that my marriage has ended this way.

Further due to other reasons I am not able to leave him straight away (well i can't move out).

I just do not know whether the marriage could work if I was more giving and whether my attitude towards him is stopping him from showing remorse.

Why would your attitude stop him showing remorse? I don't understand why that would be.

Because I can't believe he would do this to me again. We had a strong marriage, or so I thought. He broke my heart over and over and I forgave him but this time I could not.

I make it difficult for him to be normal (normal conversations) as I can't look him in the eye. I can't bear to talk to him because I cant believe he could do this. Yet it is him who wont let go of me.

But remorse is not normal.

You feel what you feel. He has done what he has done.

I don't see why you shouldn't say to him 'I can't believe what you have done, when you say you love me' whenever he asks you whether you need milk. It sounds as if he is trying to have a normal life and you are nowhere near a normal life at the moment. He shouldn't be either.

itsallmadness I think what you are you suffering from is called cognitive dissonance.
Your DH is asking you to believe his words when they are at odds with his behaviour. He claims to love you and the DC but his behaviour is selfish and hurtful and not loving. How he manages to square this within himself is hard to comprehend, but he is probably in denial and needs to wake up and feel the consequences of his behaviour.

You cannot accept his reassurance if it is based only on his clearly unreliable words. This is a man who has lied to and cheated on you. Actions speak louder etc.

It would seem entirely reasonable of you to ask him to leave for a few days to think about whether he really wants a future with you. Then he needs to convince you with his actions that he really wants that, not just a cosy base to continue his philanderings from.

You can start divorce proceedings for adultery for up to six months after you have found out about his affair. Maybe that will give him the wake up call he needs.

Stay angry and don't give him an easy ride. You will lose his respect if you do, and your self respect as well.

Best wishes

I think I remember your original thread, OP.

First of all, in an infidelity situation, there's a world of difference between feeling sorry for what he did - and sorrow for getting caught doing it. The fact that he was unfaithful again after seeing all the pain and devastation it caused, suggests that he was sorry the first time, for getting caught.

Genuine remorse is actually easy to see, because a person shows it in his every action. If you thought he was genuinely remorseful, you wouldn't even have to query it on here, it would be so obvious.

Changing your behaviour to being more forgiving, would not produce more remorse at all. Again, proper remorse is unconditional and not dependent whatsoever on whether a person is forgiven, either now or in the future.

Responding to your pain and perfectly understandable withdrawal by "sulking" is far removed from genuine remorse. It speaks of selfishness and entitlement, which are exactly the same behaviours that permit infidelity in the first place.

Finally, if you truly love someone, you love them enough to let them go.

Whenwillifeelnormal - you did post on my earlier threads.
Everything you have said is how I feel but dh just doesn't see it that way. He thinks I am making a big deal of the weekend away. He thinks I should be satisfied that he chose to stay with me because he 'loves me' not OW.

I know the next step is to file for divorce and I'll have to get a move on if I have to file within 6 months! It's just something that is so unimaginable. I wanted an amicable separation but he wont agree to moving out without conditions attached (ie only for one month and then to move back).

I look around me and there are so many happy families. All I want is for my children to be secure and a divorce would change them forever. He is very good Dad to them, that there is no doubt. Without giving much away (fear of being recognised on MN), my family set up is one in which a divorce would have ramifications to my extended family and community.

I think I was just wondering whether the marriage would survive if I gave him the chance to show remorse. But I just can't do it (thinking out aloud).

I suspect the barriers you mentioned in your last paragraph are the very reasons why your H won't agree to a divorce or moving out. He doesn't take you seriously and is trading off the repercussions that you mention.

You don't need his permission to divorce him, or live a separate life. If you want this marriage over and are sure about that, staying in the same house together is going to provide your DCs with a bad role model of a healthy relationship.

He might love you and not the OW, but perhaps you feel that this comparison doesn't matter, because you don't believe he loves you as you need to be loved? Again, you have the right to be with someone who loves you in the way you need.

I don't under-estimate the pressure you might feel to stay in a marriage that no longer provides what you need, but staying married will also have negative repercussions that could be far worse than the ones you perceive from divorce.

It would be pretty impossible to be loving to someone who has hurt you not once, but twice and who lacks genuine remorse, so I'd be inclined to regard your inability to love, as perfectly understandable in the circumstances.

You don't need anybody's permission to leave a relationship, OP.

Thank you for your replies.

Feeling a bit emotional after a few drinks tonight.

I cant believe that I am in a position where i have to ask for a divorce.

Havent stopped crying because I can't believe dh would betray and disrespect me to such an extent. This is actually the third time!

My parents have been though so much heartbreak that I am scared this will destroy them too. My mum would be heartbroken if she knew how dh had been treating me and my dad wont be able to take. I think this is what also makes it so difficult. I dont think I can ask for their support.

Feeling sad, trapped and cant stop crying (have had a few drinks though). Can't believe my life has turned out this way and cant bear the thought of my children being unhappy. I know some people say that my happiness come first but really, for me, I do live for my children, I love them too much to see them suffer for dh's infidelity.

they are happy now are they? just becuase you live in the same house. is this a happy house?

no its not, becuase your dh has been a twat. its his fault and its his burden, he ruined what youhave, if the kids dont have him around, thats his fault - not yours

I think you should remind yourself first and foremost that this is not your fault. Your dh chose to be unfaithful. He has broken your marriage and this is the consequence. The way that you feel is due to his actions and sound entirely reasonable. It is in no way good enough for him to say that he chose you and so it is all fine. Your relationship cannot return to the way it was before. That's not how it works. If you both chose to recommit then it is to a new relationship.

I sympathise about your parents, but remember first and foremost they will be concerned about your happiness, and then the happiness of your children. My parents were incredibly upset when my dh and I separated (although I didn't tell them that dh had had an affair) but once they were reassured that I was OK and the children were too they were less unhappy and I grew much closer to them.

For your children it doesn't have to be the end of the world. If you can arrange a good shared care set up them they should retain their good dad and their (no doubt :)) happier mum. We did 50:50 and I think that the children actually got to spend more time with both of us, as we changed out working patterns so we did long days when they were with the other parent and shot days when we had them.So many children have unorthodox family arrangements there is much less stigma and children are quite accepting of these things.

Remorse I think comes with time. My dh was first very upset when I found out as his OW immediately dumped him. He sulked and was uncommunicative for months. Then he suddenly had a moment of clarity and realized what he had put me through. That led to much introspection and as it coincided with me becoming more forceful in showing my emotions (I was having some excellent much needed counseling) a lot of I am not worthy rubbish. Then we had a big row about something very small and he decided we had to separate (I was of the I'll make you decide to leave the relationship persuasion at the time) because of the children. First he wanted me to move out (from my house!) but I wasn't having any of that. In truth I thought that was the end of it, but actually separating really worked for us and over the next two years we did rebuild our relationship and now have been back together for three years and things are good.

Sorry - too long, but just to give you an idea that it takes time for remorse, and time for forgiveness and a long time to 're-normalise'. Now I think of dh's OW as an ex, very much from the past. In fact it all seems quite bizarre.