Break up -neither will leave mortgaged house!

[cheekymonk]

Hi There,
I was wondering if anyone has any experience of separating with someone when you have a mortgage with them.
My little sis(she's 28!) decided to call time on the relationship after realising partner was mentally cruel and abusive. He threw a hot dinner at her once, has threatened to kill her, locked her in the garden for 20 mins, there are lots of examples of his awful behaviour.
They both refuse to walk out, saying they want to keep the house and the 2 dogs they have.
The house is in negative equity by 8 grand. My sis put the deposit (almost 8 grand I think) on the house originally which she feels means the house is more hers. He feels that because she was unemployed for 4 months and paid nothing towards the house it is more his.
Tonight she rang me in tears as he was out all of sat night and came home sun at 9.30pm. She has now found out he was with another girl and is on a date with her tonight. She can't put up with this for much longer but she won't go! Any ideas/solutions anyone! All our family are at a loss as to what to say/do next! It just seems hopeless...

Are they married? Do they have kids? Who's name is the house in? How do they pay the mortgage? I think all these questions have some bearing on who is entitled to what.

If he's violent to her she may be able to get an occupation order. Women's Aid may be able to help.

But it sounds complicated and like she really needs a solicitor who is experienced in this area.

I'm curious why she would want to keep a house with negative equity. Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to off-load the debt on to her Ex.?

Can he take over the mortgage on his own? Can your sister?

Actually, if she can get her name off the deeds and mortgage, she is walking away from £8k debt.

Whatever happens, she should not leave if she is liable for the mortgage because if he fails to pay then she is equally liable, even if she is not living there, and her credit rating etc could be completely trashed. If the house is repossessed and there is a shortfall then the bank can pursue your sister for that money, even if she was unaware that it was being repossessed.

The date he has is probably a tactic to get her out.

There is a legal route where she can force sale (expensive!) and others more knowledgeable will be able to say if she has a chance of an Occupation order, but unless one of them can convince the mortgage company that they are able to take on the mortgage by themselves then the only solution is to sell.

I suggest that she makes an appointment with a mortgage broker to discus the options about taking on the mortgage. That will give her a clear idea of what is possible, what is not possible, and perhaps focus her partner's mind on the financial side of it.

Whatever happens, do not allow your sister to stay on the mortgage agreement without living there. That way lies bankruptcy.

I hope it all works out for her.

Can he take over the mortgage on his own? Can your sister?

Actually, if she can get her name off the deeds and mortgage, she is walking away from £8k debt.

Whatever happens, she should not leave if she is liable for the mortgage because if he fails to pay then she is equally liable, even if she is not living there, and her credit rating etc could be completely trashed. If the house is repossessed and there is a shortfall then the bank can pursue your sister for that money, even if she was unaware that it was being repossessed.

The date he has is probably a tactic to get her out.

There is a legal route where she can force sale (expensive!) and others more knowledgeable will be able to say if she has a chance of an Occupation order, but unless one of them can convince the mortgage company that they are able to take on the mortgage by themselves then the only solution is to sell.

I suggest that she makes an appointment with a mortgage broker to discus the options about taking on the mortgage. That will give her a clear idea of what is possible, what is not possible, and perhaps focus her partner's mind on the financial side of it.

Whatever happens, do not allow your sister to stay on the mortgage agreement without living there. That way lies bankruptcy.

I hope it all works out for her.

If she wants to keep the house, she needs to buy him out, and vice versa.

The house belongs to each of them equally, as do all the debts. Selling it is pointless as they would still have to make up the shortfall.

She needs to go to the CAB and see what her rights are.

If he has been abusive then there may be a way to get the court to grant an occupation order, but tbh that might not be possible unless they have DC. But I could be utterly wrong on this point.

She could leave and register a charge on the property for 50% to prevent him selling it without paying back any eventual proceeds, but that is unlikely to be something that will happen overnight.

TBH, with the negative equity it makes more sense to walk away and sign over the house, and all debts that go with it in exchange for being exempt from the debts.

How long did they live in the house? His saying she was unemployed for 4m is irrelevant, presuming she contributed (and can prove she did so) before and since her unemployment. If she can prove she paid the deposit it may help. But if he won't go, short of her making it worth his while to do so there is little she can do.

Staying with him under these circumstances is harmful to her health and compromises her safety.

Sorry for double post

My sister had a mortgage with her then DP. He did a romantic proposal on a New Years' Eve and she reacted with horror. So a quick exit was called for. In the end his mum loaned him the money to buy her out and that was it.

They could look into renting to cover the mortgage until the negative equity situation is resolved although the way the housing market is going that could take some time!

Thanks all! In answer to the questions, not they are not married, they don't have children, the house is in joint names. They pay the mortgage and billls by paying money into a joint account that has dds set up to pay all bills/mortgage and also some savings (well there were until my sis cleared out account of £1500 to help pay for a new car!!
They have been together 7 years and had this house for 3. They both see the house as their own personal future and that it would be impossible to get on housing ladder if they sell/let other stay.
I talked about it at work and they all said the same-why hang on to it?
My sis would be willing to take on mortgage by herself but is trying to get advice on this. She is planning to go to CAB. My mum has been to solicitors and said he hasn't got a leg to stand on but not actually told my sis what she can do!
That is good advice about not leaving when name still on mortgage. He has suggested she live there and pay him rent
Yes I will encourage her to get appt with mortgage company to discuss options. I have suggested this before but she seems to get freaked out by anything too formal.
We are all so worried. She has had police out to him which seemed to finally give him the message that things were over and she wasn't going to stand for it anymore but to have her nose rubbed in it like this is heartbreaking.
Thank you all xx

They've had the house for 7 years and are in negative equity?

Tell her to accept the offer of rent. She takes her name off the deed and rents for say £300 a month.

As soon as name is off the deed then get the hell out of dodge.

Well, considering they are into negative equity, it is more or less the equivalent of owning nothing... Making a fresh start will be easier than keeping paying that house her own. I believe both of them are being stubborn, and this is going to cost them both lots of hurt and tears. personally, I would walk away and buy him out. When all is finished, she will be happier she has no memories of him to live with.

Changing subject... msboogie, your story about your sister sounds very weird... she and her DP were living together, had a house together... he proposed... and she reacted with horror and separated? Have I missed anything here?

seeyou okay, I spoke with sis today and confirmed he means that they both stay on mortgage but she rents off him which is what i thought he meant! I can't understand that one!
They have had the house 3 years. She tells me today it is not as bad as 8k it is 4k (worrying that she has such little grasp of the figs but her head is all over the place!)
She was so upset today after him going on date. He wore a shirt she bought him and asked her if he looked ok. What a bastard... [

(not really relevant, but with the state of the housing market, knowing whether that the negative equity is 4k or 8k is neither here nor there, if they were to try and sell, 4k difference is nothing in today's market)

TBH they sound a right bloody pair who will probably have 'made up' by this time next week.

Date - tactic to get her out.

I think what he ought to mean is that they both own the property but she will be renting his part of the interest in the property and paying him rent. This is only if he pays half the mortgage. Sometimes one partner who lives in the property will pay all the mortgage on the understanding that the other person's share of the mortgage is actually the rent that the first person is paying for use of the property. Both keep their names on the deeds and both benefit from any increase in equity, and if the relationship is reasonable and they are in negative equity it is a way to deal with things. That is the way it works in the real world but if it is an abusive relationship anything could happen - and he, as co-owner, could come in and out as he pleased or even move back in legally.

Anything like this needs to be negotiated not by your sister but by a very tough solicitor. I personally would not touch it with a barge pole as he would continue to pull her strings.

Does he realise that if he has his name on one mortgage he will have trouble getting a mortgage by himself. And if your sister defaults and goes bankrupt he is stuffed for the whole mortgage? Might be worth mentioning in passing.

How does she know that the house is in negative equity? Did he tell her? Can she believe him? She would need to get an independent valuation, plus she should check the Land Registry to see if any loans apart from the mortgage are registered against the property. You can go online and download the information on the property for £4. Anyone can do it for any property, so you can do this on behalf of your sister without the fella knowing.

btw, loans in his name only secured against a joint property are another kettle of fish entirely and you would really need proper legal advice eg CAB or a solicitor.

I really hope your sister can work something out. In her position I would do anything I could to get my name off the mortgage and walk away.

Thanks again for advice. My sis had proper valuation the other day so it is not based on his say so. He previously said he had talked to mortgage company who advised that because she was unemployed and paid nothing to mortgage for 4 months he was entitled to chuck her out! This proves how little he can be trusted imho.
One good thing is that there aren't any loans and they are up to date with bills. I agree the power he would have scares me if she were to pay 'rent'.
sparklingexplosiongoldbrass- I know they have been so off and on its untrue. They were going to get married last year and she came off the pill 3 months ago as he persuaded her that having kids would sort them out! Luckily she came to her senses!
He has recently said that if she pays him the money she took from the joint a/c he will go but will he?
He has even feigned committing suicide, locking himself in garage and putting idea in sis's head he may gas himself and tying his neck around the headboard. It is seriously damaging stuff and I have no idea how she has stuck it these past 4 weeks (thats how long it is since they agreed to separate). I live away but am going up to see her next week.