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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help me get my marriage back on track (sorry, v long)

31 replies

IncreasinglyDespondent · 09/11/2010 12:27

OK here goes (have name-changed for this). Apologies in advance for the very long essay but I really need some honest advice on how to stop my marriage disintegrating further.

DH and I have been married for almost 10 years, and have DS1 (4) and DS2 (3 months). We are both busy professionals in the same field. DH's job is busier and more senior than mine and involves 2 roles. Until I went on maternity leave with DS2, I had a job that was similar to one of those roles. I also have some experience of DH's other role, and know a number of people doing similar jobs, so I know what his work entails (although he claims I don't). I am responsible for most domestic matters (children, cooking, household organisation, bills etc.)

Basically, DH is a workaholic. He goes to work between 7 and 8am and tries to come home for DCs' bath and bedtime at 7-7.30pm, but frequently doesn't get home until after 8pm. After dinner, he sits down to work again at his laptop at around 10pm, and for the last few months has been working until 3-4am almost every night. He has always had a similar pattern of work, but the time he stops work and comes to bed in the wee small hours has gradually got later and later over the years.

The "big issue" in our marriage is the conflict between DH's work practices (and the resultant chronic sleep deprivation), and the demands of married/family life.

From my point of view, DH's work practices have a big impact on me and on family life. He works the same evening/night hours 7 days a week, so considers that he "needs" to lie in every Saturday and Sunday (often until 11am or so). (I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of lie-ins I have had since DS1 was born.) He insists that we go out as a family on the weekend, and gets offended if I suggest taking the children out myself and leaving him to sleep. But in practice that means we either wait until he is up before going out, which restricts the sort of activities we can do, or he gets up early to come with us and is then irritable and frequently falls asleep when we are out (e.g. during meals - not great for conversation).

When he is up at weekends, I am still responsible for the majority of family organisation - breakfast, washing and dressing DS2, packing change bags, spare clothes, snacks etc. He will occasionally get DS1 dressed (even though DS1 is perfectly capable of doing this himself when in the right mood!), but then seems to consider that he has made his contribution and displays an air of puzzled innocence if I get annoyed that he hasn't done more. He often sits down to work at his computer whenever he perceives there to be a "spare" moment at weekends, and seems oblivious to the fact that I am running around doing all that needs to be done to get us out of the house.

He isn't like this all the time. He will often devote large amounts of time to DS1 on the weekends and sometimes takes him out on his own. They have a lovely relationship and he is a good father.

From his point of view, he is very ambitious and his identity is very much bound up in his work. He considers that he has already "sacrificed" productivity at work for the demands of married life and parenthood (erm, he proposed to me and the DCs were a mutual decision). In his worst moments, he is not prepared to compromise further on his working hours and doesn?t think he should be asked to ("You knew what I was like when you married me, you knew what you were getting yourself into"). He accuses me of having altered my priorities. This is true, I have become quite child-focussed, but one of us had to - and anyway, isn't that what adults do, adapt to changing demands in life? He says that he feels constantly pulled between the demands of work and of home, and feels guilty that he is not performing adequately on either front.

All of this has led to massive resentment on both sides. I resent him because it seems like the DCs and I are consistently last in DH's priority list, and he is far more worried about disappointing/inconveniencing/alienating work colleagues than letting me down. He frequently seems like a passenger in family life rather than (as I had fondly anticipated) a co-pilot. He resents me because I nag him about work. I feel like a single parent with a lodger some of the time, he feels surplus to requirements when I focus on the DCs. We both feel that the other doesn?t listen to our point of view.

I have tried and tried over the years to find a way past this by talking to him. The same issues were there pre-DCs, but were more manageable, I think because I made fewer demands on him - I was more work-focussed then myself, and I would do my own thing at weekends (e.g. go to the gym) while he slept off a long night's work. Not surprisingly, since the birth of DS2 I have needed him to be more family-focussed, and this has caused more friction.

None of this is helped by the interaction between our personalities. I am a "glass-half-full" person, he is very much a "glass-half-empty" person. He sees things in black and white, I see shades of grey. This means that when I ask him to reduce his working hours temporarily while DS2 is so small, he hears that I am asking him to never work at home again and to throw away his career.

I know a number of people who do his sort of job. No-one else works these hours. His only strategy when things get busy is to work longer hours. He has low self-esteem (thank you very much, MIL) and genuinely feels that he needs to work harder than everyone else to maintain his professional position. I have talked endlessly with him over the years about "working smarter" rather than "working longer" (he finds it difficult to say "no" to colleagues or to delegate) but the improvement in his working practices has been very gradual.

He makes intermittent efforts to improve, most recently by saying he will stop work at 2am and come to bed. This lasted a couple of days and then it was back to 3-3.30-4am.

Things came to a head last weekend when we had a blazing row, witnessed (to my deep shame regret) by DS1. We seemed to patch things over until early this morning when I lost it with him when he was still working at 3.30am and told him to sleep on the couch. He said "OK" but then just got into bed at around 6am when he'd finished working! He clearly feels (and says) that I'm being hysterical but I just don't think he understands how unhappy this situation makes me. I do not want to live like this for the rest of my life. At my lowest, I feel straight-jacketed by the demands of a self-centred man who doesn't really care enough about the impact of his actions on his wife or family to change his behaviour. Yet I recognise that this isn't entirely fair and he does have his own side to the story.

Please don't tell me to leave him. For various reasons connected to our circumstances, I can't end my marriage. More to the point, I don't want to end it. DH is my best friend. He is a wonderful father (although he doesn't believe this himself - more self-esteem issues). I think that, somewhere under all the built-up resentment, I still love him. I want to find a way around this so we can all be happier. I think I am going to have to try going to Relate by myself. I doubt that he would come as he is very sceptical about counselling.

Neither of us is perfect. I can be bossy and like things done my way. Sometimes I wonder whether part of the reason his refusal to work less infuriates me so much is because he just won't follow my advice. But ultimately, I just want a better family life, I want to feel like my needs matter to DH, I don't want my sons to grow up thinking that this is a normal working or family life, and I don't want DH to work himself, quite literally, to death. Is any of that so bad?

OP posts:
IncreasinglyDespondent · 09/11/2010 16:47

loves2walk - definitely just caffeine. But lots of it.

I like your idea of a list and a timeframe. I think he would balk at that many changes at once though - might need to start with just a couple to get the ball rolling.

OP posts:
loves2walk · 09/11/2010 17:13

I wouldn't go too easy on the list though because you should be prepared to compromise and negotiate so you almost need to aim higher than you're prepared to accept so you have some room for movement.

I also think you need to state what he stands to lose if he doesn't meet you at least halfway - this is not hysterical threats, just reality. This lack of support will eventually chip away at the love you have for him. It leaves you vulnerable to seeking emotional support elsewhere and that may not be from female friends. Him having an untreated mental health issue leaves you at higher risk of one. And he is certainly at risk of sucumbing to illness, maybe you are too, with such a high workload.

MrMeaner · 09/11/2010 18:17

I'll try and keep my response on a purely work related basis as my own take on this is that if you can solve this you would solve the other issues.

Having worked on the board of some pretty large companies I have the following comments:

  • no job needs that amount of hours to be put in. The fact that he is doing them indicates either: i) he is inefficient at his role ii) he is bad at delegating/feels threatened at giving some of his work away to colleagues iii) the company is so seriously understaffed that there is absolutely no alternative (not likely in a large company)

A good boss would be addressing any of these issues and ensuring the correct work on them. If this is not the case then either his company doesn't care ie is happy to drive him till he drops safe in the knowledge they can replace him immediately, or they are somehow oblivious to what he is going through. If the latter then he really needs to raise the issue - it is unsustainable in the long run and no one is effective, productive or efficient on the hours he is putting in.
He will have been promoted because the company believes he is capable of doing the job, but no one is irreplaceable and ultimately is situation is likely to be damaging to both him and his company.
He needs to sit down with his boss/HR and have a serious discussion.

thatsnotmyfruitshoot · 09/11/2010 21:37

As a former manager, I'd be appalled if any of my team were putting in these kind of hours.

For some reason I'm getting the impression he drives his own workload though, as an academic or medical consultant, for example, rather than being employed by a larger company.

This is relevant because it affects how he's being supported at work - that kind of role may not have a direct line manager, any occupational therapy input, or an HR dept who can help him manage his work-life balance.

If I'm way off-track, then is there anybody at work who he could talk to about this to get another perspective?

IncreasinglyDespondent · 10/11/2010 10:41

Yes, fruitshoot, you are thinking along the right sort of lines career-wise.

He does drive his own workload and he doesn't report directly to anyone. It is very difficult to persuade him to speak to anyone at work because his colleagues are the ones that try to get him involved in more work. Although he has regular appraisals, he thinks that to admit his workload is too much would be perceived as weakness or failure.

He has difficulty accepting someone else's perspective if it doesn't agree with his own (usually negative) perceptions. I am constantly trying to get him to see that not everything needs to be interpreted in a negative light and have made some progress. He will now sometimes admit that a situation can be interpreted in another, more positive way. However he tends to equate pessimism with being realistic and optimism with being in denial, so it is hard work.

OP posts:
BlueFergie · 10/11/2010 11:22

ID - You have to realise I think that you have gone beyond the stage of getting through to your husband. He cannot process or implement what you are saying and I would bet everything I have that he is not telling you exactly what is going on in his head. Either because he can't explain it or he is worried what you will think of him if he does.

You will not be able to fix him because it has to come from within him and he needs to know what to do himself first.

He needs to talk to someone professional. Someone who understands minds better than any of us. You need him to do that. Have you tried to talk to him about counselling? Or even going to talk to a GP? Gp was the first step my DH took and our one was great.

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