Friendships

[Notty43]

I feel like all my friendships are falling apart and it is starting to make me unhappy, defensive and insular.

I am naturally shy but like most adults try to overcome this - especially important for me as I love socialising. In the past I had a full and lively social life. Yet over the last few years me and my family have become increasingly isolated. A lot of former school friends have moved away and those who have stayed behind seem to have found new friendships through their children. I work really hard at trying to keep in touch and arrange get-togethers and nights out. Yet, this is never returned: I only meet people if I arrange it, I never receive invitations back - be it meals at home, theatre trips or nights down the pub. With new people (who I meet through work or my children) I'll invite them round for a meal or out socialising, but it becomes embaressing when they never return this (and then I start to get resentful, and refuse to keep inviting them). Most hurtfully of all, my closest girlfriends and I always go away to London for a weekend once a year - yet now three of them have arranged to go elsewhere together, without including me.

I don't want to confront them about this as, when I've done this in the past, it seems to worsen matters rather than bring them out in the open.

I find this really upsetting. I am starting to think there is something wrong with me and am losing all my former self-confidence. :(

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time, Notty. I wonder if perhaps you're trying too hard? Maybe if you take a step back & let someone else invite you first instead of you always being the instigator? I would simply just get on with my life, expect nothing with regards to invitations & you'll probably find it'll eventually happen naturally. Just don't expect too much too soon.

I think it's quite common for people to downsize in the friends department as they get older & start families. We just don't have as much time on our hands. I don't go out to the pub, theatre, on trips etc very often at all. Not because I don't want to but because our finances won't allow. Maybe that's a problem for some people but they may not want to come out & say so.

As for the 3 friends who've arranged a trip without you, I wouldn't confront them either. I would just let them get on with it.
As you say "three of them" have arranged to go elsewhere, that sounds like there are others usually included on these trips. As this has been a regular thing up until now, could the rest of you arrange something?

I'm feeling the same Notty and have been giving it some thought. I sometimes feel I am always the one arranging and inviting - but if I think carefully about it - that's not really true, it's just that there are a few cases where it is true and that is making me feel as though it's always true.

Some of my oldest, dearest friends have rather faded away. We don't live close anymore and in most cases our lives are very different - more so than ever.

I also have an annual weekend which is in danger of not happening next year. I suppose it was likely to have a final year sometime - I do hope to keep in touch with some of the girls some other way.

I have found that, especially now having school age kids, many people focus on local friends.

The final issue which I think is my main one is that sometimes it's as though I just can't get enough company - or perhaps not enough of the kind of certain kinds of company. It's as if I have a loneliness that can never be comforted - or when it is - the moment the medicinal company is gone - I'm right back as if it never happened. I must find some way to lessen that neediness, I think.

Acinonyx: you and I sound rather similar, like you I do feel very lonely. Again, like you I think it's the type of company I have that is not fulfilling. Perhaps to others I do seem to have a good social life (I do see other Mums locally), but they feel like superficial friends, as I don't know them intimately , like the friends I had before children. I think I need one close friend locally, someone who I feel comfortable to confide in.

didgeridoo: I' grateful for your comments, and maybe I am trying too hard. But I have tried to hold back on doing the organising - and then I find nobody calls! Which makes me feel worse than ever.

Whereas at my happiest I was at the centre of a busy social network, I now feel like I am tagging along and wouldn't be missed if I didn't bother. Not a nice feeling.

Before dcs, and even more before dhs, everyone seemed to have time to hang out with close buddies and have those endless long heart-to-hearts. There just isn't the opportunity to make new friendships of that intensity these days. I think it can happen - but it's less likely.

I've been thinking about this a lot too, Notty. I don't think it's uncommon. I have some very close friends but they aren't local so our friendships have been diluted a bit. I seem to be on the fringe of lots of local groups, but not really at the centre of anything. Would love to have a small group of really close friends here that I can do things with.

I started to think about how I was relating to others. Sometimes I love my own company, and can happily spend time alone. At other times I hate it and crave company. I wonder if I project different images to people on different days.

I also wonder how to develop friendships beyond the acquaintance level, I have coffees with lots of people, but there are very few I'd ever meet at weekends. I've met more people through DP, which is nice.

I think acinonyx is right too, when I worked in a busy young office, I had lots of intense friendships. It was easy when you spent all day with people. It's not quite the same when you're trying to socialise as you pass people on the school run..

I agree with all of the comments - especially with regard to the school run - it really is hard to develop those frindships if you work long hours.

Thanks for the responses - it helps me to discover it's not unusual.
:)

But would be better if I could think of a positive way to resolve things!

My wife said something to me a few months back which may or may not be relevant. Basically, since DC1 came along, she has found that most of her friendships and virtually all of her socialising is either with the DC or with people she has met because she had the DC. Its not that these people aren't good friends but the reality is that she only knows them because they all got pregnant at roughly the same time, not because of anything instigated solely by her. So, she isn't lonely per se, but finds that while her social life is meeting her needs as a mother, it isn't really meeting her needs just as a grown woman.

She's going to try and take up more hobbies if we have the time and we're trying to do more with friends as a couple but without the DC. Not sure if you've got a DP/DH OP, but we did one thing differently which was great. When we got our monthly babysitter (thanks FIL), rather than just going out on our own as we normally do, we met with a whole group of mates together instead, which we hardly ever do now. It was really lovely and provided DW with a few coffe/drink dates later in the week that were not DC related.

All the best to you anyway, and sorry you're having such a rough time.

Deepheat - I think that is the key ingredient - friends that are not entirely DC-related. Also, when dc are babies - the mother need is paramount. But as they get older - the grown woman comes more to the fore as the baby fog fades (personally I found the baby fog lasts about 2 years).

I was feeling relatively positive after all these comments (thanks for your responses), but -

a new incident today has really upset me. Was meant to be off out for a drink with a newer 'friend' at the weekend. Turns out she 'forgot' and has made a clashing appointment for a sleepover party for her daughter (who is an occasional visitor to our house). So the night out is off, as she has to supervise the party. But worse still, the sleepover includes all my DDs friends, except her! Feels to me like a slap in the face to both of us. DS is shy but seems to have a nice group of friends in the school setting and invites them back home regularly but (with exception of her 2 closest friends)seldom gets invited back.

I'm starting to feel we are both invisible! And I know DD will be upset by this latest turn of events when she finds out (and they will all be talking about it, so she can't help but know).

I feel really down on behalf of myself and DD :(

Hi
I do really sympathise and know how you feel. I seem to have become invisible to a lot of my old friends, the phone seldom rings and I too feel like I'm making all the effort to arrange things.
The way I try and rationalise is that I arrange outings/phone people to satisfy my need for company so it doesn't matter if they don't reciprocate ( in reality it bugs hell out of me).
Also it's not physically possible to keep intense friendships going simultaneously. I would speak on phone to a best friend every evening, see people at work etc but now there just isn't time to do all these things with all friends. I'm learning that you go through "intense" friendships with different people depending on life stages.
Finally try not to think about it. The friendships that I have formed have been naturally, without thinking about it. The people that I've conciously thought "oh I think that would be a good friend" have never worked out. Go with the flow.

Thanks Fedallio: good points, I do try to rationalise it and some days (like today) that works. Other days, it drive me mad. I guess I just need to try not to dwell on it so much.

Be interesting to actually hear the other side. Is there anyone out there who would admit to never returning calls, organising? and if so, how do you feel about this?

I can see both sides of the story.

I love to organise coffee mornings/ lunches, but when it comes to evening things I don't organise and pass up everything, including weddings/ Christmas drinks etc.

During the day, I have baby distractions, so it's me + children. At night, it's just me and I'm frightened that people won't like me as I don't have much going on in my life so I'm a bit of a bore and have nothing to talk about. Also, with evening stuff, there's an element of dressing up and I have zero confidence at the best of times, so I avoid the situation because I don't want to deal with it.

I have been feeling v much like you too recently Noddy.

I rationalise that people are just incredibly BUSY. Also many seem to socialise with family which I barely have and they are miles away.

I try to arrange get-togethers as I need the company and have no friends through DH. I am basically shy, lack confidence and get easily discouraged (people who know me would be surprised to hear).

Just finding a mutually convenient date to meet can take endless to-ing and fro-ing of emails with at least 3 wks notice needed.

Inviting people round is a huge effort: tidying up, planning a meal, persuading DCs to go to bed calmly and on time. We have a lovely evening but then the invitation is not reciprocated.

I get v despondent about the mums on the school run who blank me 80% of the time too, can't even manage a smile and 'hello' which is all I expect in the rush. Then ultra-friendly on the odd occasion. Whassat all about?

Have been feeling a bit down and atm I feel I'm just not going to bother, focus on immediate family instead.

FlipFlop: you seem to be going through a very similar experience. Like you, I struggle to understand it, especially when people come round, seem to have a great time, but then don't reciprocate. It can lower your self-esteem as you start to doubt your own personality (i.e. 'do they think i'm not interesting?). One thing I've noticed is that those mums who don't work tend to socialise in the day: then they invite each others kids round in the afternoons after school; maybe get to know each other this way and the whole thing then ballons as the kids become friends through the MUMs and so forth. It's harder to develop relationships if you are a working mum (for both you and your kids).

I am years into this 'anti' dynamic. My oldest 2 dc are 16 & 18 so just about done with the school gate...not. I had another darling dd 2 years ago, so I get to do that all over again. I swear that was the only thing I dreaded about having another child! I can deal: drop and go.

I wait for invitations, feeling like a nieve puppy full of hope for a crumb. They never come, of course...have learned to not expect them so the disappointment is down graded. On offers to 'tag a long'...I used to accept but had frustrated unidentified feelings of being used for entertainment; so now I do not 'tag a long'. How ironic.

I have given up trying, tbh. Many times in my life a very (to me) good friend has moved away. Nothing to do with me-but there they go and don't keep in touch (maybe not that good of a friend after all) beyond a Christmas card.

FlipFlop100 is right, focusing on immediate family is what I have resolved on as well.

I am cognizant of the fact that my issue is probably due to me, though. Crap up bringing left me without a clue as to 'how to be a friend'. Apparently 'being myself' isn't going to wash, and trying different forumlas is so superficial/artifical...I can't do it-actually wouldn't know how (but do suspect it'd be way beyond my budget).

Sorry for the whining...kind of just venting; thanks for the thread-it does help to know others have similar experience.

Notty-that does hurt about your recent double snub. I hope you can treat you and your dd to some fun this weekend.

Oh I feel a little bit guilty now! I probably am the bad friend sometimes (you said you wanted to hear the other side).

I am a really bubbly and outgoing person who has been described as nurturing and very maternal. I love caring for people, but probably on a more impersonal level (eg my job). But I'm a bit of a rubbish friend. I think for me I have issues from my childhood that mean that I don't easily accept love from others. So sometimes I have felt like my friends wouldn't want to hear from me or spend time with me so I'll wait until they contact me, as I don't want to 'bother' them.

Also, I never really had a fuss made over my birthday/Christmas etc, so I don't value cards much and this flows on to how I treat others. I also kind of figure that everone is settled and happy with loads of friends and wouldn't miss a card/gift from me.

This wouldn't apply to cancelling on them - I wouldn't do that unless I was sick or something serious.

I know it sounds irrational (and I'm open to slating here) but it's been part of why I'm not a great communicator with my friends. May not apply to the people you know though - just my own experience. I am working on it though

I am actually an awful friend. I have lost all of my friends because I cannot cope with keeping my friendships going. I suppose that wouldn't be the case with most people, but perhaps a few are in my position. I cancel things all the time because I can't bring myself to actually go out and see people. People no longer invite me anywhere.

I have incredibly low confidence and so assume that people do not want to talk to me. I also assume that people dislike me, even if they've spoken to me and been perfectly nice. I feel that I might be bothering them if I initiate conversation, so I don't.

Now, onto the issue of school moms. My son is only two, so not at school yet, but I have had interactions with other moms at toddler play sessions. They probably think that I am very funny with them. On the odd occasion, I have managed to extend the conversation beyond 'hello', but often I can't even bring myself to make eye contact with them. The problem is nothing to do with them and everything to do with myself.

I'm very much like tummysgottogo. I find it very, very hard to know how to be sometimes so I avoid the situation altogether. I'm fine at work but not so great outside of my comfort zone. I have a lot of friends from before I had DD(3) but I seldom see them. We speak/email/text occasionally but, really, our lives are very different now. I also moved hundreds of miles away about 5 years ago. It was easy before DD as I would just go to friends' at weekends but that's out now as none of them have children.

I've effectively isolated myself and my only local friends are my neighbours. Even then, it's they who make all the effort. I'm always amazed that anyone wants to spend time with me...

Notty - maybe the others aren't as confident and sorted out as you think they are? No-one would ever suspect that I'm insecure socially because I'm a huge chatterbox and come across very confidently...but I do feel as though I probably bore other people, so that's why I don't invite people around/organise things.

I am exactly the same as starsareshining.

thanks all, interesting responses. I do relate to the comment from toomanystuffedbears, i.e. ' I am cognizant of the fact that my issue is probably due to me, though......'being myself' isn't going to wash'. I'm sure there must be something in the way I come across that perhaps makes people behave in this way towards me - but I'm not sure what it is and am almost certain that I am beyond changing it now!! And I do try and instill in my DCs that it is important to be yourself, so it would be hardly right to change who I am to please others.

As it happens, DD is having a lovely weekend, and I am hoping that my current state of mind with regard to friendships is not affecting her.

"who blank me 80% of the time too, can't even manage a smile and 'hello' which is all I expect in the rush. Then ultra-friendly on the odd occasion. Whassat all about?"

Oh dear - I am guilty of this sort of behaviour sometimes. All I can say is that it has nothing to do with the other people and everything to do with me. Sometimes I am feeling shy or preoccupied and keep my head down. Other times I am feeling more relaxed and confident and make the effort to be friendly. I don't seem to be able to keep the effort up all the time though. I will try to remember to at least smile even on unconfident days.

I have enjoyed reading this thread because some of the comments reflect my own thoughts. The only difference is I don't feel the need to have friends. I love my own company, and find that of the immediate family and DP to be more than enough. The added advantage is they know me well so I don't have to strain myself to 'entertain' them.

However...

I work in a hospital and have noticed that women who are widowed tend to rely heavily on their girlfriends to bring them for hospital appointments/emergencies. This applies to both those who have children and the childless ones. Additionally, they tend to spend fill one day with another retired girlfriend (for example, shopping and then lunch plus a film on Friday). It is when I am in the presence of such women that I do worry about not having a close girlfriend, because sometimes, family cannot be relied on.

Anyway, thought I would offer an unconventional worry and if anyone can relate, please do share.

Tummysgottgo - I could have written your post. Word for word. Even the cards bit

SA