dh creating housework/no adult time

[whatkatydidathome]

dh and I keep arguing about the children (5,8,10). He works FT from home and I work PT. Since we had our first we have always argued about having "adult time". (I want some - he delays putting the kids to bed). At the moment we rarely eat before about 10.30 pm, children all still up now as I type. dh is happy to help but, for example, insists on giving children what they want for each meal (so 3 separate meals ebvery meal time), letting the 5 year old dictate bedtime routine (so it takes about an hour) etc. If I try to get him to given them all the same for tea he gets cross, says that I'm dictatign to him, that he is happy to do it - but then there is no time to do the rest (sandwiches for school (3 different lots of courses), school uniform, room tidying (dh says children are too young to help). The same is tue of the rest of the housework - he will no tthrow anything away so all cupboards are full so everything is a mess and I can't do it when he is out as he is always here. It is really gettign me down - children are turning into spoilt brats, house is a cluttered pigstye and they just never go to bed. Any suggestions? Does anyone else have a husband like this?

This all sounds very weird and stressful for you. Sounds like guilt making him indulge them.

You need a crisis talk with him, do you have an opportunity to talk without the kids at all?

The bedtime and meals thing is just crazy, DH and I are fairly lax but wow.

Is there any chance you can get your kids on board about a new routine? Can you come up with a rota for dinner, so dc1 chooses on Monday and Thursday, dc2 chooses Tuesday and Friday etc?

And maybe do one of those picture charts for the evening with laminated card so they can tick off dinner, tidy up time, bath, teeth etc.

'controlling' is a word often chucked about on these threads, doesn't sound like it to me, your DH just sounds a bit of a flake sorry :( but tbh only you can tell where this issue has come from.

Jesus this sounds awful.

It amazes me how men some people can't see that children who are tired will just not get on with getting to bed - they need a bit of crisp briskness to get on with it and can't deal with loads of language at that time - but far better to get going before they are tired.

I do think the sex thing is an issue. Is he resenting the fact that you don't express desire for him? (not surprising). Again, he's not seeing the connection between acting like a complete arse and less lurve action. But IMO this is a frequent cycle for dh and me some couples to get into.

I wouldn't bother trying to explore his past. Of course it influences his behaviour. The fact is, you are not happy to live like this, and want the future to be different (is that factual enough for him?)

I have some sympathy for him. He sounds as though he's trying to give the children the idyllic childhood he didn't have. Unfortunately, that is exacting a very large price, paid by you two, the couple. And by you, it seems, in things like not being able to put your little one to bed.

It's a bit late in the day, but not too late. I suppose you could try dealing with it head on, and saying that you know why he does it, but a.) their childhood will be happy, with less effort on your parts and b.) they need happy parents; a happy family requires all its members to be giving and receiving time, support, and love, to all its members - at the moment you two aren't doing enough of that for each other.

There's no point in him doing all of that, only for the parents to be sundered by it.

And, yes, it does sound as though he has set the terms too much. The family is your place too. And you have the right to make it in a shape that fits you, too.

So, yes, time to make changes.

Re sex - when I do make the first move he is very reticent - I think that it turns him of fif I make the first move. I have come up with countless different ideas for kid discipline - I just can't se eho wI can get any to work without his support as he will always give in and give in until he cracks and shouts at them. He cannot se th epoitn of any structure to any discipline routine - thnks that it is all psyco babble. we do not smack them but any discussion about discipline comes back to that - ie bad behaviour is because I will not let him smack them not because they are becomming spoilt brats

The priority has to be getting him to realise that he's doing the children no favours. It's not about you and him or quality time or sex or anything else, it's about the fact that your children will be very unhappy adults when they realise that actually, there are boundaries and actually, they can't always do what they want.

Could you show him this thread? Or at least C&P the responses you want him to see?

typing thi sis enabling me to work out more what is going on. I just wnet down to try to talk to him - asked him if he was happy about the way our lives were. he just shouted - listed all the things he has done today (looked after ds whilst I took dd out, made kids tea (I ofered to)) etc claiming that I just sat on computer all day (was working but also looked after dd, did washing, made bread, sandwiches, coked our food etc etc - dh spent most of day in garden). Anyway he will not talk about children, talk about hwo maybe we need a rouitine - just shouts, lists all the jobs he has done (most of which I don't think would need doing if he would just try being harder with children adn more organised with clutter) and says that I "just want to have a go". I think that maybe he cannot ake any critisim.

I don't smack my children. Discipline isn't just smacking. Sounds like you're having a strange, circular argument there.

The thing about discipline, I always think, is that a lot of adult life, and just life, actually, is very strange, very unfamiliar, only predictable after you've seen a fair bit of it, and it is just wholly unrealistic to expect children to be born knowing it all. Adults are bigger than children; we're taller, we see further, we're older, we see further: So it's our job to look into the distance, and pass on what we see to our children. You have to accept that differential in knowledge. That's what the whole "discipline/boundaries" thing is all about, really.

So, yes, it's your job as an adult to set realistic boundaries and discipline. It's not evil in and of itself.

(I always feel I have to labour this point, because I've met strange, male lefties, who have told me that women are inherently authoritarian because they discipline children.)

God I can't see showing him the thread going well tbh hassled - if he thinks any input from his partner is 'psychobabble' he's hardly going to love instructions from a bunch of randoms (and female ones) off the internet.

Hmm. There is one thing that stands out as a possible starting point - you saying to him that you are feeling exhausted and that YOU need to go to bed earlier - and doing it. How would he respond to that? Because it's something you can control, and at least then you might feel a bit better in yourself.

Ultimately people won't change very much, or at least not necessarily the way you want them to. I'm with you - it sounds like a nightmare living like this. But tbh it is one up on the partners you read about on here that are practically allergic to their own children and won't spend time with them. It's also a plus that he doesn't spank them even though he thinks it's OK - that's one thing he has done for you (has he?)

I'm trying to find some positives here. I do think getting more sleep yourself, even if you abandon getting more time with him for now, would at least improve life a bit and make everything seem less insurmountable.

Taking my own advice and off to bed

Would writing it all down be a good idea? Then get him to read it on his own so he will actually read it all instead of interrupting and shouting.

Hmmm. I think if your relationship really has reached that stage ... it's Relate time. Sorry. But the thing about any discussion is that it's not a discussion if you can't talk to each other, and listen with respect. So, if it's reached the stage where your saying something is met with shouting, you (both) need some neutral, time-out, to reflect on where the basic respect-for-hearing-each-other-out has gone.

Is the shouting a one-off, or is it generally like this? Would there be a better, more chilled time, to talk?

Yes you definitely need more sleep. What would happen if you told him that for this whole week you'll go to bed at 9pm each night? Would that give him a kick up the arse? Or would everything crumble.

Has he ever done the full bedtime routine alone? If you have a night out with friends or something? It sounds like he expects it all to happen by magic.

Do you two talk like you type? Just reading this is making my eyes bleed..........

We have a similar problem with bedtimes - think dp feels guilty about not spending enough time with them so gives them very drawn out bedtimes with way too much excitement & often stays with them till they go to sleep. This does affect the children in the morning as they need a lot more shouting help to wake up & are noticeably more crabby.

We take it in turns & when I do it, they know it's different so dd settles straight away instead of 'I'm thirsty', 'Where's my teddy?', 'I want the light on'. Because I'm consistent (with bedtimes, anyway) they accept it - bit like behaving differently at school to home because teachers won't let them get away with stuff.

Think your dp is the control freak, not you. If he had a tough time as a child he needs to try & put this behind him instead of reliving his life through his children - they're different with different needs or he'll probably end mucking their lives up. Oops, sorry, rant over! Has taken me a while to realise I'm too lenient with my children because my parents were too strict & see lots of people doing similar things.

Hope you find the strength to stand up to your dp one way or another. Sounds like you're thinking of their needs long term, as well as right now.

funny in the garden - not sure what you mean :)
Re relate - how do you get a session? I tried their website a while back but they did not seem to have anything locally. Are there any other organisations?

whatkatydidathome - I don't know. Can you 'phone them and ask them if there's anything local to you?

By the way, another way of redeeming that lost childhood is creating joy in the present, not just through the children's lives, but through his own - and yours. I think it would be a shame to sacrifice the present in pursuit of a lost past.

It really does sound as though your present isn't bringing you the joy it should. That's a valid thing, a very important thing. Hope you do find a way through this.