Is it normal to go through a rough patch when DC1 is born. Did you? How long did it last?

[PassionKiss]

DD1 is 6 months now. I feel like since she was born Dh and I have argued more and more. We both know it's because we're tired - the arguments are over trivial things but they seem to come from nowhere and I think we are both shocked by them if that makes sense.

DH works long hours, evenings and weekends. DD is not a good sleeper. We have recently moved far away from family (so no grandparents to babysit).

I know we love each other and we adore DD. But I am sick of spending what little time we have together with him snapping, me crying etc. He hates it when I cry, I hate it when he sulks after a row. It can take up a whole day and I don't feel like we're being good parents while we're doing it.

This time last year when I was pregnant we were sooo loved up and happy together. I could cry thinking about it.

How can we get that back? I'm scared each row is damaging our relationship. I actually googled Relate before - would a counsellor help?

Yes. The first year was tough.

And then we got back on track.

And then DS2 was born.

Slept through the night at about 2.5yrs (bad reflux and constant ear infections).

I contemplated divorce for a while.

We are reasonably back on track now!

Yes, it's entirely normal. Your lives have changed forever, your priorities have changed, and you'll all exhausted. Counselling may well help, but a simple realisation from both of you that you are now parents and no longer free to do what you want, when you want will work as well.

Sit down and talk with your DP; he won't be thinking about your point of view any more than you're thinking of his. DH and I were talking about this just the other day, and our DC are adults now!

Our 'rough patch' is still going after nearly 4 years unfortunately. We did manage to be civil to each other to have another baby during that time tho'

In my experience - DS is 4 months - you just have to stop arguing. We were in serious danger of saying or doing something we'd regret. We had to stop. Its not worth destroying our relationship over the stuff we fought about.

So it sounds harsh but you both just have to pull yourselves together and put smiles on your faces. Like in the war!

Oh and you both have to do it. Don't you be nice if he's going to be an arse about stuff. Try to relax your standards about things - that prevents a lot of arguments in our house. More experienced parents say that things get better as they get older - I hope so!

Thanks for responses - I feel disloyal talking about this to anyone in RL so thank goodness for Mumsnet!

2cats2many - lol! I am super broody for another one already in spite of wanting to divorce DH on a regular basis - wtf??

RudeEnglishLady - that's good advice. I am so scared we'll say something terrible that we can't take back. I am going to try and have a calm talk with him tonight.

Ditto what everyone has said. You have to sit down and talk and realise that you're both in it together.

Re. tiredness: when DS1 was smaller we had an arrangement where one of us would get up with him on Saturday morning whilst the other was allowed a lie-in. On Sunday it was the other ones turn for the lie-in. It meant that at least one morning during the week you could sleep, read, have a long hot bath, slap on a face mask or do whatever you fancy to make you feel human again.

Any chance of getting someone else to babysit maybe once every two weeks or once a month so the two of you have a few hours together away from your daughter? Ok you may have to pay for it but your relationship should be worth the expense?

It's really tough. And normal.

I think the sleep deprivation is the worst bit and just makes everything else worse.

But what often happens (ime) is that so much is different for you (physically, mentally, emotionally etc) that there are all manner of frustrations about things that have happened during the day, how you're feeling, how anxious you might feel about situations that what you end up doing is needing somewhere to channel all of that iyswim. It's such a life changing thing in so many ways that you get to a point where you can't absorb all of it and start projecting it somewhere. And often that's onto each other. The danger is that you get into this circle where you start blaming each other or taking out on each other every little thing that happens. Maybe one of you wants to come home and relax and is perhaps rightly irritated that it's never that simple anymore. And maybe at the same time one of you is so exhausted and has had a bad day that you just want to hand the baby over for half an hour and disappear. But then both of you end up confronted with the fact that neither one of you can achieve those things and it's hard not to snap and complain at each other. Like it's something you had control over in the first place.

I suppose what I mean is that you have to try really hard not to project things onto each other. So if I've had a bad day, dd's ill, the hoover broke etc, it's okay for me to make these statements but what I often made the mistake of doing was muttering 'well what do you know, at work all day with adult conversation' and 'well you haven't had baby vomit in your hair all day'. It's fruitless and unfair. Same the other way. DH would have similarly bad days or bad nights sleep and would make snappy comments. We had to actively try to stop that.

We also had to find ways of spending time together. We couldn't leave dd but we got into this silly habit of when she was asleep, I'd turn on the computer or he'd go into his study and we just wouldn't bother talking or spending quality time together. We tried to cook together and talk and watch a film and just spend time together. Then once she was older, making sure we spent time on our relationship too. It becomes too easy to just do what you need and have to do and to forget about things like talking and laughing or just having a cuddle on the sofa because they're not 'necessary' or they can be put off.

It is normal though. It's a big change. Money, change of dynamics, change of career maybe, sleep deprivation. It all adds up. But it's transient. You have to remember that and work out the easiest way of getting through it and liking each other at the other end.

Agree with everything soh said.

Thanks for all suggestions - I do think it would help if we got a babysitter. I'm just not ready to leave her with someone we don't know - she still wakes up every 2 hours! Maybe in a few months though.

Taking turns for lie-ins sounds like a good idea - DH has been working 6 day weeks but hopefully work is starting to calm down now and he can go back to 2 days off a week so I will suggest taking it in turns.

It's so frustrating because I know we are taking out our stresses on each other but that doesn't stop me rising to DH's snappy comments!

I have always heard that couples argue after they have a baby - But I thought that just meant for the first few months not six months! Glad to hear we are normal though!

You've both been through a pretty life-changing experience without having much of an idea how it would affect you, either physically or emotionally. Of course its normal to struggle a bit afterwards. As most people have said, it is bloody hard work for two perpetually knackered people with loads of demands on them not to argue.

Thing is, its also pretty normal for couples to get stuck in a rut like this as well. Me and wifey realised that we had to make some very conscious choices not to carry on this way. A few things we did:

• Recognise when we were compeltely shattered and tell the other person straight away, e.g. "its been a really tough day after a bad night, so I'm sorry if I come across as a bit tetchy - I don't mean to."

• Choose to do some really simple, nice things for each other: cook a meal, make a cup of tea without being asked etc. Funny how these things can often change the feel of an evening.

• Make sure that when we were having 'discussions' we didn't say anything accusatory, e.g. "you never do anything to help around the house", but instead just said how we felt, e.g. "I often feel like I could really do with some help around the house." That way our 'discussions' never got too defensive or arsey and it made us think more about how the other person is feeling.

The obvious suggestion is having time away from DC, but that's obviously not always easy for loads of reasons. We found that what was good was to plan an activity for when DC went to sleep (watch a film, play a game, shag) and make sure that all the other things that needed to be done were done before DC was asleep so that there weren't any distractions.

Anyway, like most people say, it does get easier but then I think you have other tough times as well (we're having one now and DD is 17m) and the better you deal with it this time, the easier it'll be to deal with it the next time things get tricky. All the best.

ditto to lots of what has been said above.

You really do need a break from time to time. If you don't want to use a babysitter, can you go and see family and persuade them to look after your baby for a couple of hours so you two can go for lunch or even just a walk? Do you have any friendly neighbours who might be able to help?

Can DH take a day off so you can take turns for a day or so you can go for lunch or to baby cinema (if they do that near you) so you can have a quasi-date and something else to talk about.

You relationship is so important, don't let petty quarrels turn into irreconcilable differences.
Good luck.

yy to what deepheat said (except wifey!) - good tips, and similar to us. Be kind to each other - tough sometimes when you're tired, but so helpful.

I don't think we necessarily argued more, (though we have always been a couple who argue a lot and make up quickly!)

It was more that we were very ground down and had no time or energy to enjoy being together as we used too. This got us both down.

I remember one chat we had where we agreed we had to make a real conscious effort to be more understanding and just kinder to each other, otherwise we would wake up one day and find there was nothing left of our marriage.

This has worked a treat and things are really great now, and even better for our shared pride in our darling PFB! Mind you DH is about to buy himself a very expensive mountain bike and so has been in a good mood for weeks, obsessing about which one to buy and getting excited and being very nice to me as I have encouraged him to spend the (vast amount) of money rather than nagging him about it; it has done wonders for our marriage!

Sulking is a problem - we do snap and argue a lot but one of us always apologises within the hour - "never refuse to accept an apology" is a rule for us.

It's normal. Just as long as both of you know that's it's normal and don't start giving up on the relationship "because it's obviously not working".

It took quite a while for DH to feel that he "had his wife back". But that was partly because just as things were getting a little easier, we got broody and I was pregnant with our youngest. And the youngest didn't sleep either.

I completely agree that you need to have some time as a couple. Your DD is still very little, but even leaving her for an hour or two to have a leisurly cup of coffee is a start. Do you have any family nearby?

Taking turns to lie in is good short-term, but we used to trade afternoon naps as well and got to the stage where we didn't actually see each other at the weekend, or ever do anything as a family. Which also wasn't good! Even an hour or two in bed is gold, though, when you have a baby.

I could have written your OP.

DS is 16 weeks, and I have contemplated divorce, wheras before we were/are so strong.

We are really struggling too.

No advice. Just saying.

Around 7/8 months was the worst for me both times, with crawling, demanding, non sleeping babies. I think being shattered just erases your goodwill and tolerance - or at least it does mine.

By that stage I was sick of never getting a good sleep, sick of DH never doing any housework in a 'why have a dog and bark yourself' kind of way (IMO!), sick of being the only one getting up at night (not strictly fair because DH works nights and has poor hearing, not just selective hearing)

I was a mass of seething resentment. On bad days I still am, a bit. But I love DH and the children, they love me. So I try to not express some of it and try to avoid sniping competitions.

Many days I had felt DH was like an extra child to look after, to feed/cloth/keep track of. I try to let it wash over me now - if he asks where's my XYZ I just say no idea and wander off - so I don't get into rows about how disorganized he is, how untidy the house is - a tiny row can escalate very quickly if you let it. Try to be kind to each other, try to be at least as courteous as you would be to a friend.

HabbiBOOM DW is aware that wifey is very much an affectionate term and has no problem with it. Took a while for her to come round but she eventually did when I explained that the alternative was 'sweetcheeks' .

Back on track though, the point above about never turning down an apology is a great one.

Oh, while I remember, the other thing about having a baby was that I used to get all touched out. So when DH came home, I didn't want as much as a cuddle, I just wanted to be left the hell alone.

Luckily, DH was very understanding, but he is very grateful that that stage has passed.

Me and DH found it difficult for about the first year I'm afraid. DS was a bad sleeper and, whilst DH is a computer programmer and used to working all night and having weird schedules, I am a deep sleeper and handled the deprivation REALLY badly. We eventually had to have a rule whereby anything said during the night was let go, otherwise we would have been constantly fighting!

I think it's easy to forget about maintaining your relationship when you have little kids because everything is so focused on them. One of the best things you can probably do is to get someone in to babysit and have a child-free night out so you can just talk to each other and reconnent.

It is tough, there is no doubt about that. Everything changes, the whole dynamic, and it can be very unsettling.

I'm pregnant again with DC2, and I'm short-tempered and grumpy. DH is 3 months into a new job which he loves, but he is really busy and quite preoccupied at times and so we are niggling each other about all kinds of things.

We had a chat about it while we were away on holiday last week (no rows while we were away so I know it is just life and not 'us' which is the problem!). We decided that the main issue is that these little rows really upset him, because he saw his parents argue and split up, and he himself has a previous failed marriage.
They bother me much less because I have had loads of examples in my life of arguments taking place within happy marriages and not meaning disaster IYSWIM?
We are both much happier after that discussion and haven't had a row since.

In short, keep talking. Be honest with each other rather than trying to say the right thing to smooth things down. Try and be objective, step back and look at how much has changed and put things into context.

Thank you all for your advice. Really helps to hear other people's experiences.

I think we have taken on too much to be honest - having a baby, a major house move away from family and friends, and a new very stressful job for DH - all in the space of 6 months.

We had a nice evening last night and agreed that we would both try not to quarrel on his day off tomorrow (easier said than done though!)

I think we really need to have sex as well !! I know that would make us feel closer.

Your experience rings really true for me too. When my DS was 4 months was tough and I went through a period of being so angry with my DH. Then things got back on track and we had my DD and things were equally hard with lots of resentment on both sides.

However, my DS is 4 now and DD 2 and I'm falling in love with my husband again! Time, sleep and having a laugh occassionally seem to make all the difference. And we actually want to have sex rather than feeling it might be something that would be good for us.

Can only reiterate what everyone has said about how tough it was for lots of people. its a huge shift after having just yourself to look after along with the changes in division of labour within the house. Went to a talk the other day by someone who was talking about how hard it is in the early years and they have a website 'letssticktogether.co.uk which is quite useful.