how bad should it get before you throw in the towel?

[driedapricots]

i posted a week or so ago. marriage4 at breaking point. Just had DS 3 months ago but DH has had drink issues for last 2/3 years. Has always been a great husband and father though and really tires to control it..even as i type this i know i can't begin to explain the entire situation properly..it's too complex. But anyway last weekend we reached crisis point, i packed kids off to mums and we had a good talk, cleared the air and generally a nice relaxed weekend together. we agreed some new ground rules. this weekend he has broken them spectuacularly. put it this way, whilst i was up all night nursing his son who didn't sleep a wink due to a cold he was having a jolly good time with drink, drugs and porn phone lines involved all in one night.... i am so angry with him. i don't even feel like i know him anymore. he was never like this until recently or have i been completely fooled all along?? i'm going mad in my head. i thought i had married a good man i really did. he was/is a good man when sober. but it's like the drink brings out these demons and he turns into someone else. so far he's never been violent but the way things are going that's about the only bad thing left for him to do to me. i feel like he's pushing and pushing me away yet he still insists he loves me - well he can't because you don't put someone you love through this. i don't want a broken marriage and i dont want my kids to come from a broken family but he is forcing me into this situation. half the problem is he has serious issues, but i can't help him with these - he needs to do that for himself. so in the meantime, what do we do? am i being a mug to stand by him still? i don't even think i love him anymore. i certainly dont trust him. but i can't imagine a life without him - more for the children than me though. and yes, i know..what kind of mother would want such a twat around her kids...but he really isn't like that 80% of time. sorry, gone on far too long but am so sad and have no one to talk to about this in 'real life' - please tell me what you'd do.

Your children won't ultimately thank you for staying with such a man if you choose to do so. Doing so for their benefit (unfair of you also btw to put such adult decisions onto their heads) and your wish that they don't come from a broken family (I would argue that your family is already broken by his actions) is a mistake on your part.

Also what you write is very telling - a lot of women in such abusive relationship situations often write that the man is a good dad when he is patently not. He is no husband to you and perhaps never was either. You personally do have not a good word to say about him, the only good comment you write comes across as an excuse for his behaviour.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. I would appreciate an answer to that.

What keeps you there despite all this?. Was your parents relationship similar so you have learnt such damaging patterns from them?.

The damage being done to the children in all this is incalculable. Both of you need to take responsibility here for that and them, you are both imparting damaging lessons here.

No trust - no relationship. You have given him by the sounds of it multiple chances. Cut your losses now re him and walk away for your childrens sake as well as yours. It is okay to walk away from him, enabling him too as you have done has done neither of you any favours at all. Do you still feel a sense of responsibility for him?. You enabling him has also stopped him from having to face up to the consequences of his actions.

Relate solely for your own self could be helpful as would counselling by BACP who do not charge the earth. You cannot go on like this, this relationship is untenable and highly damaging to all concerned.

He has some pretty serious addiction problems, by the sounds of it. You owe it to yourself and your child to get out.

Agree ^

Was going to say that I would, for the sake of future 'did I do the right thing' moments, give him THE last chance, but I see you have done that already, last weekend when you reached crisis.

I have been where you are, wondering what is best for the kids. And my situation was nowehere near as bad as yours. You struggling on with baby while he has drink/drugs/porn fest??

He says he loves you, he probably does in as much as any man like that is capable of loving another person.

Interestingly you say he was never like that, or were you fooled etc - same with my ex, and my friend's ex.
We wonder whether they put on a major act in the beginning to hide the real them, or if they change somewhere along the way...my opinion is these men are fine til they have kids, then, when they are no longer number one, they become selfish twats. They create all this drama around their behaviour which, I feel, gives them loads of attention and like little kids, ANY attention is beter than none.

I think you know the answer to your question, in that it is already bad enough now, you just need the strength - good luck.

Were any of the rules that he should address his drinking ?

You say its complex does that mean you feel at some level he has reasons why he drinks so much ie the issues you refer to?

It seems very offensive to not even survive a week without sticking to what you had agreed.

Maybe you should ask him to get immediate help with his drinking via AA or similar and explain you cant sort out his issues for him and either he seeks help wholeheartedly or you will be telling him to leave.

Hi, just wanted to say I could have written your post especially when DD was a baby. Lots of commonalities with my situation, my DD's are older now and while my DH's behaviour has moderated a little the issues do not change, despite many such conversations and broken promises. You ask how bad does it have to be? It sounds pretty bad to me. It will not get better unless something changes. He won't change so the something has to be you. I am currently wresting with this also, it is not easy. It's so much easier to see things clearly when it is someone else's relationship but try and imagine how you would feel reading this post if it had been written by someone else. Please CAT me if you want someone to chat to. No answers for you, but just wanted to say you are not alone. XXX

thanks for your responses. teeny how do i CAT you? I feel so alone as it's so hard to talk to anyone close about this without them immediately judging him as a bad person/bastard for treating us like this. Atila - your words are practical but it's really easy to tell people to just up and leave. I have a lot of good to say about him - but I've come on MN to moan about him! What do I get out of the relationship? I've had 6 great years with him - he has always made me feel loved and wanted, secure...we were so happy until a couple of years ago when he was made redundant and since then it has been issue after issue..but I know drink is at the bottom of it. Surely being married is about sticking by the other person to help them through their bad times? And then again, even as i write this I know yes, you should stick by them, but they too have a role to play in the relationship and it can't be all give one one side and fuck up on the other. I think he's depressed..I know his is - he said last night he hates his life and can't cope with the responsibility of family life - but then said he didn't want to leave us...he's called this morning to apologise again and seems more remorseful. He would do, he's sober and back to the person I know. He changes into someone I don't know when he's drunk..i said i want us to go to relate. he has agreed. when will we get the time/money for that though?!

He's presumably spending family money on his drink........ And drugs? How much??

And sex phone lines........VERY expensive.

He's a good dad and husband? Really? Putting you all first??

Where does he do his drugtaking?

driedapricots,

re your comments:-

"Surely being married is about sticking by the other person to help them through their bad times?"

Well to a point but the other person has to take responsibility for their actions, your H patently is not because at heart he does not want to besides which you are also enabling him.

"And then again, even as i write this I know yes, you should stick by them, but they too have a role to play in the relationship and it can't be all give one one side and fuck up on the other. I think he's depressed..I know his is - he said last night he hates his life and can't cope with the responsibility of family life - but then said he didn't want to leave us"

No wonder he said that, because you're there to prop him up. Even after his most recent exploits which are most harmful to you and his family unit, you are still there. Look at your own role in all this because you are certainly playing out one. The damage being done to your children here by both of you is incalculable. How would you feel if your children ended up in a relationship like yours?. You are both teaching them that this is acceptable conduct.

Many people have tough lives and bad things happen but they don't all off the rails in such a fashion like your H as a result. Stop making excuses for him, you are not responsible for him ultimately. Perhaps your own desire for them not to want to come from a broken family is actually clouding the issue here but I tell you now, your family is already broken. Being with a drunkard won't help you and all he is now doing is dragging you all down with him.

Ok. it's harsh on here..but maybe that's what i need.

I've only scanned the thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned but you may find Al-anon helpful driedapricots, talking to them or attending a meeting may give you support that you need. In some ways he sounds depressed and I think he needs some serious counseling and possibly some anti depressants too. However he sounds like he's pressed the self destruct button in many ways and you would be better to have some time apart for now until he either gets his head together or when you're very sure you divorce. His destructive behaviour is too damaging for the DCs to be around right now. You need to look after them and you at this time.

how can you give an alcoholic antidepressents though

oh,and being a single parent to your children is NOT abroken family at all.....you are a family,as are all single parent families!!!

however,living with a drug and drink addled monster IS bringing your children up in a broken family!! what are you teaching these children about adult life,relationships etc?

"Surely being married is about sticking by the other person to help them through their bad times?"

These are indeed bad times, but helping him through may mean not "sticking by him"/staying to watch the car-crash. For as long as you do that, you are facilitating his behaviour and may be prolonging this situation. Maybe it needs to come to a head? Truly sticking by him may not be the same thing as staying together while he sorts himself out.

Yes SprinkleDust he sounds one big mess right now doesn't he? I suspect it was depression that may have driven him to drink when he lost his job though However you can't mix AD's with alcohol can you? I'm on AD's right now, the leaflet says that I cannot drink alcohol with them, although I accept there are many ones out there. I think that him looking into some counseling would be a good start but OP you need to separate at this time

My H and I separated a year ago and I did want to work things out, marriage was important to me. Ultimately we didn't but the children and I are happy and at peace now and he see's them regularly. It doesn't have to be a total disaster being a lone parent. Truly!

e needs to be gone!!

depression diagnosis seems to be easily given here on MN

Time to go or send him packing dried apricots. You cannot live in this way and it will teach your dc that women put up with this behaviour. Single parenthood can provide a happy and stable family life. I have just left my dh due to infidelity loadsalies and drug abuse. I worry for my 3 kids at times but every day brings me closer to realising that our lives will be more harmonious without dh in our home.

Dried apricots - me too so sorry you are having dsuch a tough time. Listen to Attila- she gives good advice, even if it is a little direct.

driedapricots - I have no experience of drug abuse but I do of alcohol. If your H stopped drinking/drugs etc., how would you then feel towards him? Sometimes, a drinker can stop drinking and it should be much better. However, what you can find is that the years whilst they were drinking have had such a negative impact on everything, that, even when they stop, you do not stop remembering what they have put you through. Just my experience.

Sometimes, the damage that drink etc do doesn't go away even if the person who is abusing alcohol etc stops. It isn't a magic solution.

Hi there. I was with an alcoholic for some years (no kids) we split up and he thanks me for it now. He had to hit rock bottom (got wasted and crashed his work car) before he got real help. While we didn't get back together we are friends now.

They say that alcoholics need to hear it 100 times that they have a problem and it's only when they hear it that 100th time that it sinks in. Only when they lose what's precious to them. Also, maybe you have to break up in order for him to come right and there is then always the option of reuniting. It has to be him to take action to save him self.

I think leaving while you have such a wee baby would be really hard, but I would encourage you to have a good hard think about what your boundaries are, what you are willing to accept and what you won't accept. The lay down your expectations for him. That way he knows that he has some choices here. He can choose you and the relationship or he can choose the drink.

You're probably underplaying how bad things really are. I know I did.

It sounds so hard and I really really feel for you. You may find that the decision becomes easier if things get worse.

Also I would really encourage you to get some good support for yourself. and try not to buy the guilt-trip story that you are ruining your kids life if you split up. You might be saving them.

sorry I meant to say it has to fall on deaf ears 99 times first

and another thought. If you lay down your boundaries/expectations and he easily and deliberately breaks them then maybe he was looking for an out of the relationship. Y'know behave so badly that you leave him because he doesn't have the balls to do it himself.

You could try going to Al-Anon - support group for partners/children of alcoholics. He will only stop abusing substances when HE wants to, and when either he hits rock bottom or stands to lose precious things in life. H stopped drinking. Problem is now that there is the damage done over all the years. The drinker just doesn't comprehend what hell life has been for everyone else in the family and how their drinking cast a shadow over daily life and everyone's behaviour and environment accordingly. This is where I am at. It's not good.

You can go on at him 'until you are blue in the face'. It is down to him.

i know all this. sleep deprivation makes everything more muddled but i had a better night with ds last night and have decided on this plan of action.
mentally prepare to leave him if/when he crosses the line again. 'the line' i have explained to him and told him this is the last chance and i will leave him next time..come what may. i'm coming to terms in my own head with the fact that i am inevitably looking at being a single parent - for the sake of my children - not at a cost to them.
all this doesn't stop me hoping and praying that he will actually come good this time and really resolve his issues so we can move on as a family.
i understand that stopping drinking can throw up a whole other load if issues because when he was in AA last time and dry for 8/9 months it was tough on our relationship..but not as tough as this is. it's just sad to see how many other relationships are ruined by alcohol.
thanks for all your wise words and encouragement. i'll be back, i'm sure :(