In sickness and in health but he's reached his limit

[AskingTooMuch]

I hope someone can help me. Apologies if this has typos etc but am tapping away on phone with DH sleeping next to me.

We've been together 10 years, 3DCs (DD1 is mine from previous relationship but we got together when she was tiny, he's her dad in every way that matters). a couple of years into our relationship I got very I'll and ended up having some intestine removed. It affected me in many ways but I made a good recovery all things considered. DD2 was born 2 years after the accident and we married when she was a baby.

Then I had DS and had a cesarean. There were complications with scar tissue from my previous issue and things got worse from there. Don't want to go into too many details as ongoing negligence claim against the hospital. DH amazing throughout and was pretty much a single dad for 18 months when I was very sick.

DS is now four and a year ago I had a colostomy. I'm 36. This has been very difficult to accept and I am still struggling. But the hardest thing is DH's reaction. He was always the driving force in the negligence claim etc and always convinced I could be 'fixed' and this has hit him so hard. He keeps saying I have been ruined.

I still love and fancy him and want us to have a full, intimate relationship. But he won't go near me or let me go near him sexually. Cuddles etc fine but if I do anything sexual he gets almost angry. He says it (the colostomy) is disgusting and he's not a freak with a fetish etc.

I have begged him to get counselling but he refuses. I have told him how devastated I am at his rejection but he says it's not his fault he finds what's happened repulsive. He says he still loves me the person but can never accept what has happened to me and the thought of touching me (near 'it'), repels him. He asked me to stop being sexual at him as it will make him leave.

I don't know what to do. I am still a sexual being even if I have a bag of my own waste (what he keeps saying), on me. But finding someone else feels impossible - anyone would be put off even if I didn't have 3 DCs and no job. And I don't want a fetishist, I want a normal family life.

I know people in my situation can and do have that but DH says their partners knew what they were signing up for and he is still with me and still loves me so what's the issue. But it's not enough for me and how can I come to terms with this if DH is so revolted by me?

It's not the bag itself - seeing it I mean, or the stoma. It's knowing it is there, he says. If it was just the physical presence of it then that would be much easier - I'd try any position, wear anything. But no, I am not even allowed to go down on him because that makes him feel repulsed.

these replies have been so helpful but now I am so angry and confused - sadness is almost better, you know? But I would not have posted last night if I was coping.

howdiditcometothis thankyou, your dad sounds great! There are some lovely people in my support group. But we have never discussed this issue. And many of them have loving partners. My nurse was telling me one of her other 'young' patients is pregnant (which obviously causes issues), and I just thought - wow. In fact maybe that is what prompted me to post.

I know people who had ostomies from an early age (DH says their partners 'knew what they were signing up for'), or are much older than me. But all their partners seem so much... happier than DH. None of this fury that he has.

But it's all tied up in his anger - he never accepted the possibility and was in denial for a long time that it would come to this.

I wish he would see someone. I would do almost anything. But he won't and all I can do to try to make him is to say it's a breaking point for me, and then he just says he'll leave me then! So I don't know what to do.

I'm so sorry you are going through this ((hugs))

This really does seem to be much more his issue then yours.

If he really would rather leave you then seek help you have to ask yourself if he loves you all that much really....

Quite frankly, if my partner managed to get through such a difficult time my respect and admiration would be huge. And how could he even talk to you in this way ( disgusting him etc) If he loved you?? Surely he can see you don't need this also heaped on your plate?

Personally, I'd ask him to join you in a session with your counsellor because they requested it and bring it up then. Do you think he would risk looking a prick in front of a professional by walking out or shouting etc?

You say you had the colostomy a year ago.
That is still very recent.
Is here still an ongoing negligence claim ?

Does he want to say married to you but accept neither of you ever have sex again? Or is he suggesting at some point he will seek sex elsewhere or indeed that you should?

I am a little perplexed at how he sees is angry stance working out in your lives and future

His comments are so hurtful but I expect he has told you he cant help how he feels and he is being honest. It's hard to argue with that.

I can see why he's hung up on the fetishists, because he's obsessed by your colostomy, too! Like them, he now sees you as a colostomy with a woman - instead of a woman first. Very tough on both of you - and devastating for your confidence, I should think! He's really being quite cruel in the way he expresses his feelings. You can't carry on like that, it'll wreck you :(

As you've said, this really sounds like anger that he was not able to have you fixed like new. Some people take very badly to finding they cannot influence everything as they wish. I'm wondering, when you get your compensation, might he then feel he has achieved a desired outcome - and lose his fixation on your stoma? Or is he very rigid about bodily perfection; would he be unable to cope with an amputation, for example?

You sound truly amazing! It's such a pity you've both had to find out this serious weakness of his: I really hope he'll realise gels been knocked off balance by your op, and decides to fix his attitude. Good luck with funding the right help.

you poor thing how frustrating for you (i've not read it all).

I have an aunt who this happened too (don't know the personal details but she did go on to have another 2 DC). Her DH did not know what he was signing up for as it happened after DD1.

Anyway it doesn't matter, he clearly has issues he needs to talk about/deal with. Maybe related to his own inadequacies.

sorry no real help but just another voice telling you YANBU (even though it's not that thread)

I'd be a bit more understanding if he admitted he had an issue but had the self-knowledge to realise that it was indeed his issue, and the willingness to address it through councelling or other appropriate means.
What is horrible is that he seems to be trying to justify his response as being normal or acceptable. Showing you these fetish websites is a particularly cruel way of doing so.

I really feel for you OP, you must have great strength to come through all this.

In my opinion your H sounds horrible. It's easier to say that when you are not married to them though, I realise that. But putting you down, showing you fetish websites, being repulsed by you? He should be proud of you fgs!

I'm with the other poster who said what does he expect to happen? That you 2 will never have sex or be intimate again?

I would be giving him an ultimatum - attend counselling properly or it is over. You can find happiness again - lots of young people have the same thing. I used to be a member of the ostomy society or something (I can't remember, it was when a relative of mine had a colostomy and my mum was caring for her as she was elderly).

It would be different if he was having issues about it, but dealt with it on his own by counselling or even spoke to you kindly about it , but he seems really cruel

I suppose in a bizarre way, he needs to grieve. When you met this wasnt an issue and now both of your lives are changed forever and he kind of needs to grieve for the life he thought he would have and accept the life he is going to have with you. He sounds like me in a way. My way to deal with bad things that happen to people I love is to "do". I take over practical things, I fight against injustice I never quite stop but when faced with the reality of the situation I cant quite cope. I dont know your oh so cannot say for definite but it sounds like SEEING your colostomy makes it real, makes it all true and he cannot cope with that so pushes it into being a fetishist, or your fault or something else, anything that saves him having to accept it and grieve.

He really needs to see a councellor and you need to tell him that although you understand his pain and reluctance to look at this, it is your body and your illness and you cannot live a life of rejection and refusal.

I dont think this is because he doesnt love you btw - I think he loves you too much and just cannot face his own grief.

I agree it doesn't mean he doesn't love you - more that he can't presently see the you he loves, only your repair work. I suppose it might be like having a new door panel on your car after a prang (I know it's nothing like that, please bear with me ...) For a while, you can't help seeing the slight difference in colour and feeling like your car's not the same anymore. You shake yourself down, have it washed a few times, and forget about it.

It's generally a given that people should only seek counselling of their own volition but, in your case, I tend to agree you may have to force him. Since he's not realising the issue is his perception, not a 'fault' in you, the counselling might be needed to get him to see that in the first place. (I meant "finding" the right help, not funding!)

Just to repeat: you sound like a truly amazing, sane and constructive woman! You're a catch - with or without your bag - and I really hope he'll get back to seeing that. All the best. x

Many posters have been scared to label your husband as highly abusive, as he?s functioned as your carer for many years. However my take on this is probably different and I think he?s extremely controlling, abusive and manipulative.

For the bulk of your relationship you have been disabled. You said that until the colostomy you could do little, and that the operation itself was actually quite liberating and it?s given you some independence back. It appears that the abuse ? and it is abuse ? really started at this point. Is this a total coincidence?

Do you think that in a peverse way he?s enjoying the anger? His behaviour seems to be incredibly self-righteous. He gets to rage and rage and rage. Someone has ?done him wrong? and he?s never going to let it go. Hell no, he?s going to wallow in it. It?s seems extremely self-indulgent and makes it all about him, not you.

Look at his behaviour. You are feeling vulnerable and his response is to say that you are ?ruined?. You are ?disgusting?, he finds you ?repulsive?. He is angry at you. If you do anything further to ?repel? him, he will leave you. He?s obsessed with going on about you being attached to a ?bag of waste?, to the extent you?re not allowed to touch him even when it?s not visible. You want sex so he?s told you to seek out a sick sexual pervert, as that?s all you?ll appeal to. He?s researched colostomy fetish sites so when you argue he can throw how repulsive you are in your face. He won?t attempt to come to terms with it, as that would make him a ?sick person?.

He?s not being ?honest?, he?s tormenting you. He?s the one with the fetish. Honestly, everyone is a bit squeamish about this subject as it involves human waste but if he was saying this stuff to you because you?d been in an accident and were left with facial scars or something, the Mumsnet massive would be heading his way with burning pitchforks!

He point blank refuses to get counselling to make any attempt to shift his worldview or move on in any way. He doesn?t want to move on, he wants to indulge his behaviour, and I suspect that he know how wrong his behaviour is, he doesn?t want to be pulled up on it. The fact that other people in your support group are in happy relationships, or even having babies, is proof that he is really out of order.

I think you have to consider what his end game is. What does he hope to achieve? Will he continue to attack you until you concede that you are in fact ruined and no more than your bag? What?s his ultimate aim in all this? Does he want to drive you to a mental breakdown, make you so ashamed that you hide away and he?s your full-time carer again so he can be even more angry at the world?

I might come across as unsympathetic, but if he was gently expressing to you that he had difficulty coming to terms with the operation, and was seeking help to get over it, I could understand. What he?s doing to you now just looks sadistic. You are only 36. Can you face spending the next 40 years of your life being treated like this? You don?t deserve it.

And anyway, you?re not ?ruined? You?re a tough and resourceful woman who has several lovely children, and has overcome great adversity! You?re physically better than you?ve been in years, and far more independent. How much better, mentally and physically, would you feel if you had a supportive and loving DH?

Anyway, sorry to burble on at great length, but I wanted to send support and hugs.

So sorry to hear your story. No advice to add to what other posters have said but just wanted to post some links. Sorry if you have them already.

www.colostomyassociation.org.uk/

www.stomadata.com/default.htm

I no I agree cat in the hat he is highly abusive and totally fucked up IMO.

That's why I said to op she should give him an ultimatum, he either gets counselling, which he won't (as abysses dont tend to) or she tells him to leave.

I also think he us an abuser who gets off on the power of a sick wife at home who is 100% reliant on him whom he can also humiliate forever more.

I think op should go through her support services and get some kind of care provision from ss and get rid. This abuse will destroy her over time.

Sorry about damn typos in that post op, I am on my stupid I phone.

I am so sad for you, I had an ileostomy when I was 39 and my DH was fantastic about it.
Obviously having a bag took getting used to from his point of view as well as mine but I cannot understand your DH's view at all. He doesn't have to look at it, in fact the bag covers the stoma and is covered in flesh coloured fabric for all those who think it might be unsightly.
I'm sorry I can't say anything more helpful but his attitude astounds me.

Sorry I haven't been back before now - lots to think about from the posts today, thankyou all very much. I have been reading and thinking all day.

I asked him this afternoon what he thought would happen long-term, was he saying he was going to be having sex elsewhere (I didn't mention me as I thought that would just start him off again). He got really offended at first but I said I was just interested and he said he couldn't imagine ever wanting to have sex again anyway so it's a non-issue.

What some people have said about him reacting to new independence is interesting and I was wondering about that.

For example, he constantly said at first 'what if it falls off when she's out' (to doctors, nurses etc). He kept asking if people would be able to smell it, if it could burst, what would happen if it fell off in the supermarket etc. When we are out as a family he gets really paranoid - he wants me to wear baggy clothes and says stuff like "I am sure that person was looking at your bulge" (there is hardly a bulge at all). He prefers me to have my handbag sort of slung over the area to 'disguise' it.

He has stopped short of saying he's ashamed to be seen with me but it's obvious that he's paranoid in some way or thinks it reflects on him? That people can somehow tell and that is something for HIM to be ashamed of?

That's a very upsetting thought actually. Everyone who is saying it's all about him is right, I think. It is.

He wouldn't say he's doing his duty or anything, he says he's doing all he can do - practical support etc. And that if I want more I need to seek it elsewhere.

I am trying to imagine a life without DH, or a life where he's around but we're not together. I can't imagine a life where I am happy with someone else - just can't imagine it. But maybe I could cope as a single mum?

I can't really work but people live without being able to work (maybe not with the new legislation). I could manage the bare bones of family life alone - getting the DCs to and from school, doing the shopping. I could do that.

But I want DH! I don't understand what has happened.

In many ways in the past it's been far more 'disgusting' - there have been times when I have soiled myself in our bed. There was one time that happened and I was crying and telling DH he should sleep in a different room, I'd get rubber sheets or something, and he was so tender and kind - he helped me clean up, he told me that he loved me and wanted to sleep with me even on rubber sheets. He made me laugh about it, he made me so happy.

And then - when I was basically incontinent - we did have some semblance of a sex life - no full sex but we had intimacy and he made it clear he desired me.

If he could love and want me then why not now? And why won't he even talk to someone about this?

I have depended on him so much for so long.

To be honest with the extra information I dont think any of us is qualified to say one way or another what is going on. There ARE some very definite signs of abuse in your post - the asking you to conceal yourself, open shame about your bag, that sort of thing. This is all about him and to be honest I am wondering if it has nothing to do with your stoma but something to do with a need to rescue in him. Its very worrying, so I wonder if you could force him to councelling. Doesnt mean he will respond though.

Whatever the answer is I agree wholeheartedly with those who have said you are very brave and I suspect that no matter what happens you will make it through!

Catkins, I wish I'd written your post. I kept telling myself to hold back from the thoughts you've expressed, due to OP's vulnerability - and I shouldn't have. I did what people do all the time, helping an abuse target to remain in the situation by proffering more hopes :(

ATM, your last post makes me feel so much pain for you. Please, please keep posting. It will help you to sort out your thoughts & feelings. A diary and/or counsellor would probably be helpful, too. Wishing you a contiued recover and increasng spirit!

*continued recovery (must clean keyboard)

when you were ill and incontinent and fighting a negligence claim he was in command and taking care of you and fighting for you.

Now the fight has ended - in fact you are now a lot better and fighting is not appropriate - an his role as your avenging hero is caput.

Sorry, no solutions, just observing some very odd and hurtful behaviour by your husband

I would try and urge him to have counselling alone, remind him its completely confidential and your not expecting any feedback from him etc.
He really hasn't come to terms with whats happened by the sounds of it and is still struggling thinking things will be normal again if he just ignores.
I have been in your dh's position nearly (my ex had a severe stroke) which is not the reason he's my ex btw.
It was devastating and I didn't realise it until years later how badly it affected me long term (had a good bit of counselling).
Its not easy and when he wanted sex it felt wrong, I wasn't recognising him as a person, but just the condition iyswim.

when your husband was your carer did he work? Is he working now?
Could it be tied up with feeling redundant and useless now you don't need him as much anymore?

I don't know what to suggest really. It seems like a lot of his self worth was tied up with being your carer and now he has 'failed' in that he is taking it out on you.

It is a bit worrying that he seems to have been happier when you were helpless. Without counselling there is no solution to this though.

He's worked throughout BlueFergie. When I was extremely ill after DS's birth he switched to part-time hours with the same company and did a lot of working from home.

TrappedinSuburbia thankyou for your perspective. Unfortunately he won't have counselling.

Everyone seems agreed that nothing can change without DH wanting it to, and he won't.

I've been doing a lot of thinking - and talking - yesterday and today. I asked my nurse if she could help me find someone to discuss this with. She seemed quite embarrassed which made me feel ashamed, and she kept saying DH had "such a lot to cope with", which makes me feel horribly guilty.

Should I just back off for a while and see if he comes round in his own time? It feels like it's been forever, especially as I've been feeling much better physically for the first time in years, but maybe I am expecting too much too soon?

Im afraid i agree with Catkins , he does indeed sound extremeley manipulative and abusive .

I could be way off the mark but i actually dont think its anything to do with your colostomy , i think its just an effective tool to beat you over the head with .

Some men will use apearances , weight , amount of sex , anything they can to pound away at their partners confidence and make them feel horrible . Youve obviously shown great stength to get through this , his attempts to erode your confidence are really really horrible .

This behaviour from him is abusive , and it would make no odds if he was claiming to be offended by your colostomy , your weight , or anything else . His attempts to make you feel self conscious in the supermarket are deliberate , and the comments about being ruined are quite telling .

I wouldnt waste your time trying to arrange counseling for him , instead , focus on getting some support for yourself . It might also be wise to look waaay back , this sort of behaviour might have always been going on although very subtly .

I think he is projecting his own inability to imagine coping with it himself. He is reacting as if it was him, and how ashamed he would feel about it. He is also probably feeling really angry and helpless that he could not prevent it.

I guess you are right - he needs help to come to terms with it. The problem is getting him to want to find that help himself.

I think maybe an approach would be to talk to him about what happened, how the operation and living with the bag now, saved your life. If he can start to see it as the thing that allows you to live he may start to see things differently. At the moment he resents it - if he could start to value it then it could get it in perspective.

I think maybe you have to try and ignore the sex side of things in the short term, and try and get him to just accept it for real.

And talk to him about leaving. It is not just a simple thing - you have 3 young children who have had a rough start in life because of your illness - they really need both of you pulling together. If he really loves you all (which he does) then he needs to accept that what he is feeling is akin to post traumatic stress - he has been through an awful time in the last few years - and he needs help to rebuild his life now.

Hello, I'm coming to this post late but wanted to say that my mom experienced something slightly similar. She had most of her intestine taken out and it did transform the relationship between herself and my father. Anyway, that's not what I want to talk about here. I would much rather ask you what your children might be thinking in the midst of all this. They may not be old enough to understand much right now but try to think about how your dc will experience having a father who is "repulsed" by their mother. If they see him telling you to hide your bag and they see your confidence further reduced that can't be good for them in the long run, surely? Obviously it will be very detrimental to you too - which again will impact on them. Don't forget that they are part of this too and perhaps you should include that aspect in your next conversation with him. I.e. ask him how you want the children to see you two and how he wants the children to view you. He has to treat you in a manner consistent with those.

As for your last post and the question of whether your dh has had enough on his plate for now... That's not for the nurse to say for a start! She's in the medical profession so being visibly embarrased is unprofessional. You have nothing to be ashamed about. Your dh does need some form of help, no doubt about that. But some men (and women) just wont accept that and never do seek that help. If that becomes clear than I think you need to consider your dc and how this odd relationship is impacting on them, and will impact on them in the future - as much as how this is impacting on you. I think that a year is a decent amount of time to have had to come to terms with this and that the time after a year may be very good to set out what sort of life both of you want - either together or apart.

The fact that you are physically feeling better you should take advantage of, do more things for yourself and keep your confidence in your own abilities up. Continue to be strong. Your strength and ability to cope make me humble.