Down about relationship with Dad

[LittlePickleHead]

I'm going to try not to turn this into a rambling essay. I'm feeling very down about my relationship with my DF and my DSM and just want others opinions on whether I am overreacting by wondering if there is even any point in trying to maintain the relationship.
It all stems fro
m my DM leaving the family when I was 16 and my DB was 14. It was a terrible time, she didn?t leave for an OM or anything like that, but had been away studying and rather renounced her life and wanted a new start. It was very hurtful although she always tried to maintain a relationship with us. My relationship with DM is now good, although for years I found it hard to accept she had left us.

My father took it all very badly and I took on the role of looking after the house and my DB whilst also studying/taking my GCSEs and ALevels, and also working part time. I actually have a very sketchy memory of this time, but I had very low self esteem. I still, however, did very well in my exams and went to uni.

During my Alevels my DF met my (now) DSM and they got married during my first year at uni. Whilst I was still living at home he spent a lot of time away staying with her in another city, so I essentially felt I had lost two parents. My DB was a very shy boy with some social difficulties and he retreated into himself. I?ve never found it easy to communicate with him, and I still feel sad and guilty for how his life must have been, especially as I was out a lot seeing friends so I didn?t have to be at home.

I?ve always felt my DSM didn?t like me, always felt inferior to her two DDs (same age as my brother and myself) and felt very insecure about things. They moved far away after they got married, leaving my DB (then 17) living alone during his college course. He got into debt and became very depressed. Whilst visiting my DF and DSM in their new house he didn?t behave particularly well, in not doing things he was told (I?m talking minor things like having a bath in the middle of the day, leaving crumbs on the table). I think he was actually pushing them to try and prove they loved him, however it resulted in my DSM banning him from the house. He didn?t visit them again for about 5 years I think.

I stayed with them for a bit after I got back from travelling post Uni, and it was awful. DSM has OCD and would pass messages to me through my dad about her being annoyed my room was messy etc. I was off sick from work once and DSM obviously didn?t realise, as I heard her telling a friend she couldn?t wait for me to leave. I managed to find a house with friends, and moved back to London not long after.

I?ve felt for a long time that my DF always loved my mum, and we were an extension of that. Since my DM left I just feel that now DSM has taken over the role and me and my DB are no longer of importance as we are just a link to my mum. After I returned from travelling my DF told me that he and DSM had been talking and decided they probably shouldn?t have had kids :( I?ve never confronted him on this.

There have been so many little things said and done between them over the years, just little things that have eaten away, but I?ve kept locked away. But since DD (18 months) I have become more and more angry at his passive behaviour. They and lovely with her when they see her, but the effort is mainly our part. They were the only people not at DDs christening/1st birthday, and that was because they had already arranged to come to London for DSM?s brothers birthday the weekend after (DF asked if I could rearrange the party? Err no, it?s her birthday!). There was no thought of making any extra effort. They also forgot my birthday, soon after.

I am now engaged and the reaction has been very weird. No congratulations, and his semi regular calls have stopped. We are still talking as I call him, but the calls have become very hard work with me having to keep thinking of things to say or it?s silent. I?m trying to involve them in the planning by getting help with lending bits and bobs etc (not financially which I would never expect) but there is no interest there at all. I asked him about a speech and he just said he didn?t know what he?d say. I guess that?s true, he doesn?t know me, doesn?t care about my life. We last spoke 5 weeks ago, I ended up having to cut the call short and said I?d ring again. Since then a lot of rough things have happened and I haven?t called as I don?t want to call and cry. I called and left a message yesterday but still nothing.

I?m getting upset about this a lot as I feel so rejected. I have been the kind of daughter to be proud of, great degree, good jobs, settled life. I?ve stood on my own two feet since 18. But the relationship feels like such hard work to maintain and it?s getting me down so much. How do I broach this? From past experience I know that if I confront anything I end up getting made out to be the bad one/one in the wrong.

So sorry about the length :(

Sorry about punctuation, I cut and paste from word and it didn't work properly...

bump

Thanks for the bump lulamoo - I know the OP is long and a bit offputting for people but I really need some advice on where to go. I feel like if I just left it and didn't call we would never speak again
I know this is so insignificant compared to other posters family situations, but this is the first time I've actually got it all down in one place. I've spent years feeling like it's my fault and that I'm not good enough, and it's somehow my fault my parents desrted me

I wonder if you could write it all down in a letter and send it to your Dad, and maybe send a copy to your brother so that he knows that he is not the only one feeling rejected etc?

It's the easiest thing in the world to let things slide under a veneer of infrequent, keeping-in-touch type phonecalls (I know because this is what I do with my mother), but maybe your Dad wouldn't be able to pretend there wasn't a problem if he read everything in a letter.

Thanks for your reply soc
I was thinking about this last night and thought about a letter. My only worry is that it would then be ignored which would make me feel even worse. At least there is less chance of what I'm saying being misconstrued. I'm just feeling very angry today

Have you considered going to therapy?

I would agree that a letter is the way forward but you would have to accept the possibility that it might be ignored or create a rift. How do your DF and DSM relate to her daughters? Is it a warm relationship or similar to yours?

To be honest, it doesn't sound like much will change - maybe therapy could help you to move on and feel happy simply in your own family, you, your fiancee and your children.

So for you x

Thanks littledawley I have actually had many councelling sessions both as a teenager and in my mid twenties. They haven't helped the underlying feelings/problems though so perhaps you are right and I do need to readdress this. DP agrees with you.

DSM has two daughters, the eldest is golden child. I first met her when we were both 16 and I was a very shy, slightly podgy, insecure yong girl who had never had a boyfriend. She was the opposite, very confident, petite and pretty with lots of friends and a good looking boyfriend. She has a successful career and has always done things the 'right' way and been praised for it.

DSM's second daughter is more like the black sheep, I think because she doesn't fit into DSMs preconceived notions of what she should be like. I feel sorry for her as well actually. Although I think their relationship is OK now I still get the impression it's quite distant and she certainly seemed to rebel a lot when younger. I haven't seen either of them in years so my appraisal of how they are now could be wrong.

I have been compared to DSS1 many times. Even when I got pregnant (and was happy!) my DF said 'Well DSS1 told us not to worry as she won't get pregnant because she has a career to think of'

Not sure what he thinks I've been doing for the past 8 years... and why would it be a worry anyway??

I really want to be happy with just us, but until this is resolved I feel it's hanging over me. If we are going to lose the relationship with my father I damn well want him to know about it and to tell him exactly how shitty he has behaved. I don't just want it to slide into oblivion never having confronted it.

He is so passive and almost like a lapdog. You ask him anything and he said 'oh I'd better just check with DSM first'. I truly believe he has allowed us to be marginalised because he's so scared of going against anything she says.

I was in something like this situation. The Stepwitch convinced my dad, who'd I'd always had a good if rather shallow relationship with, that I was a pain and after she made enough fuss about me coming to visit, he started to believe her.

I was always very concilatory towards her, bit my lip on the dozens of occasions that she said unpleasant things and so on. But eventually after about 12 years of them being together she had started to win him round and he became less keen to see me.

It's very sad, and awful, but if someone is married then they have made a life with them and rely on them. They aren't going to jeopardise that because of their child when that child has a life of their own, their own children and is well set up and so on.

I never saw any reason why my DF couldn't have a relationship with us both but the Stepwitch was so neurotic and mad that it just couldn't be. Of course he chose her, I wasn't going to move in with him and look after him!

Grim, isn't it? My dad has now died and there is some consolation in never having to visit her again!

Hello Little Pickle

Sorry you are having a difficult time when you should be enjoying planning a happy wedding and enjoying your DD.

You say you are now closer to your DM. Have you discussed with her what is was like being married to your DF? Why she felt she needed to leave her children behind and make a "fresh start"? I suspect you will find if you ask her gently you will find she has been protecting your DF and that the relationship she had with him is much like yours and frustrated her and made her feel as bad as you do. Not many women leave their children unless they are deeply unhappy. Now you are an adult she may feel able to give you a more honest account of what happened. She was leaving him not you and DB.

Sadly I think it is unlikely you will be able to change your DF only how you cope with his lack of interest and warmth. He has made his priorities clear and you and DB have been given a place a long way down on the list.

I am sad for you, but you have a loving family of your own now and you have real achievements to be proud of.

Thanks putyou i'm so sorry that this happened to you as well :(

I always wanted to have a good relationship with my stepmum but it has been a struggle from the start. After the very first meeting she told my dad she didn't think I liked her because I was quiet (I think I was still 15 at that point) so I made an extra effort the next time. Didn't work though.

She's never really said anything directly to me, always passed messages through my dad. OUr relationship has actually improved over the past few years in that we can have very nice chats when we speak, and she is very very good with DD with they (rarely) see her. So I do feel sad as there is aboslutely no reason not to have a good relationship. But there is always this undercurrent where I can tell it's all a veneer. I think TBH she finds my father having a relationship with his children too much hard work for her.

She has OCD, has been in an abusive relationship prior to my DF, and (from what I can gather) didn't have a great relationship with her own parents, especially her father. They have retreated into their life and don't like anything to upset the status quo they have.

I'm never going to be able to be part of it am I? :(
I do worry one day he will be very lonely and regret a lot of what's happened

Have you ever talked about this with your brother? Could you?

With regards to a letter, as others have said, it could always be ignored, or your Dad could react badly, but at least you would know that you had tried. Possibly your Dad is scared of being left again, but by your SM. Maybe that is why he daren't rock the boat? In which case, a letter getting everything out into the open may be the wake up call that he needs.

no - nothing you do will ever be good enough but that's not your fault, it's her. I absolutely felt the same with the StepWitch - I realised one day when I made a small, thoughtless mistake and she went BALLISTIC that in fact she was delighted that she finally had a reason to be annoyed with me - it made her day. After that I knew that whatever I did would make no difference because she didn't want to get on well with me.

Maybe as life goes on you will find some closeness with your stepsisters instead, you never know.

Yes, they'll end up without you and probably regret it. The Stepwitch was furious that I decided not to go and see her any more having been irritated by me for years - why would I go and see you so you can try and bully me? Bizarre!

whenallelsefailscastspell that is a good post, thank you.

I very recently had a conversation with my DM about him. She was very depressed and lonely. DF is a loner and likes to go off and do his hobbies alone, some of which are late into the night meaning that he then gets up late. She likes to get up early. We were at school, she didn't have a career as they got married and had us very young. She started training in her now career and went to uni and I think found out what it was like to actually have a life. Even though I have no doubt my DF really loved my DM, he just didn't show it. They were not right for each other.

COmpletely coincidentally, whilst I was at work last night (posting on MN!) my DP and DM had a chat and DM got upset saying she still feels so guilty and she doesn't think I understand how desperate she felt. I think I need to have a chat with her and say I do understand. She has spent all her time since she left trying to make up for it and be a good mum, so I can't ask for more than that.

SOC I think your point about DF being scared of being left is a good one. I totally understand that his marriage is the most important relationship in his life. I just can;t understand froM DSM point of view why it's an either/or situation. The problem with giving any kind of wake up call in a letter, is that he will be with DSM and she will turn it around to convince him it is me being unreasonable.

I've just remembered something. About 5 years ago I was there for new year and we had had a few drinks. It was just me and DF and he turned to me and said 'LittlePickle, I'm sorry I haven't been a dad to you'. I didnt know what to say as I hadnt addressed any of this in my own head then, so I just said don't be silly or something along those lines and it was forgotten.

But he obviously is aware.

Hi littlepickle.

I was in a similar situation, only my parents split up when I was about 3. My mother left and I ended up with my F and SM.

I've spent my whole life feeling like a nasty reminder of something bad, and I've spent a lot of time pretending everything was ok/trying to win their approval.

Like you, since having children I've been reassessing their behaviour and my reactions and through counselling and CBT I'm at a point where I've realised I can't change them, I can only change me, and they have to go from my life for me to move on.

It sounds quite glib but if they don't care/can't display it in anyway that is useful/meaningful to you and all they do is make you feel worse you need to resolve it. You can write a letter (I did) but be prepared for them to still not take any responsibility or for it to be used against you. I tried everything and now I give up, I need to get my head straight and focus on my family, my marriage and my children.

It is hellishly hard though, and I don't really know how to get rid of those feelings of rejection when you realise a parent doesn't give a crap. For the moment I'm trying to resolve myself to the fact that their reactions to me come from their own prblems and insecurities and aren't actually about me.

I've had loads of good advice from lovely people on this board in the last few years and it really helps so keep posting.

bintofbohemia (great name!) your post really resonated.

It is only very recently I've realised that their reactions are a result of their own issues and nothing to with me. Before I had this realisation I truly felt that there was something wrong with me and I had fucked up in some massive way.

Until I met DP I couldn't even sustain a relationship, I was so needy and so scared of being left that I scared away every guy I got with! Thank god I met DP who got to know the real me and has made me realise I'm actualy quite a cool person!

Hi pickled,

I think you want your dad to take some responsibility for how he has been. You. Have obviously been thinking about this a lot and feel the pain he has caused you . You perhaps want him to feel the pain and hurt you feel everyday but I do no think he will change , even if he does feel guity he's never going to tell you, especially with his controlling wife. I think you need to try and accept this is the ways things are, its not your fault you try with them bt they give nothing back. Don't let this ruin your life, concentrate on the life u have with baby and husband, friend s etc. Trying to change your dad will just cause you such misery,pain - its all so negative. Focus on you and your own life . Xxx

Yes, all makes sense, I was the same, but like you have met someone fantastic who is so calm and level and supportive and I thank god every day that I did or I would have carried on floating around being unhappy and making bad decisions.

My mother, like yours left because she was so incredibly fed up. My father was having an affair with my SM when I was 2 and my brother was less than one. (They deny it, but that's some tight maths otherwise, as they were married when I was 4.) My mother had no family, no money and my gran who had helped cut her out when she split with my dad. (My dad also beat her up which was always denied, and I didn't believe until he beat me up too.) I guess what I'm tryign to say is that like whenallelsefails women rarely leave their children unless they feel it is their last resort.

I really feel for you, it is awful. Counselling helped, but like you it reached a point where we couldn't go any further, it came down to the fact that I had to stop expecting anything more from them, including any kind of recognition or apology for the damage done. I'm still not sure how to really let that go (it's a work in prgress I suppose!) but getting them out of my life will help no end.

Surround yourself with lovely people who really do appreciate you and sod the rest. Must help to know that he realises, but it's a bit rubbish that he realises and still hasn't redressed it. Some men are so weak and useless and let themselves be controlled and manipulated by sad insecure women.

Yes bint and rachy, it is the desire for at least some kind of acknowledgement for how me and DB have been let down. I don't know how to let it go, but I am so lucky to have a fantastically supportive extended family on my DM's side so I guess I'll have to look to them for comfort and just get over it.

In reply to SOC's earlier question, my brother and I have never really spoken about it. We don't have a very close relationship, he is actually very similar to my DF in lots of ways and isn;t a great communicator, though he is getting better. He was very damaged by what happened and I don't want to upset him by bringing it up as he still seems to be living in a bubble wrt how DF has treated him and still makes all the effort with calling him etc. I suppose I'd feel guilty if my actions had even more of a negative impact on his relationship with the. I've no doubt it would, DSM tolerates DB even less than she does me, I'm sure...

Sorry you're going through this littlepickle. Something very similar happened to me, and as a result I almost never see my dad...because I can guarantee something will happen that SM will twist into some stupid drama. And it's just too much like hard work. Even though I love my dad I'm angry with him for being so passive, and for the massive failure of loyalty I see in his putting up with his wife being foul to his kids.

But as another poster said, some people are just weak. And perhaps older men are by virtue of upbringing extra rubbish at emotional confrontation, and so leave their new wife to duke it out with their kids, hoping I suppose that it'll come right in the end and with no idea of the pain and betrayal the kids feel.

I have no advice, as I tried everything that's been suggested here and none of it really worked. The only thing that's halfway produced results (inasmuch as I can now at least call without creating Atmospheres and mad hostile emails cc'd to the entire world) was to cut Dad out of the loop and talk to the SM, on the basis that in a couple of their generation the woman is in charge of all the emotional stuff and there was no point in trying to be direct with Dad. But that took a hefty dose of therapy, to get to the point where I could see Dad's part in it all, stop blaming it all on her, and accept that I'd probably never get Dad to change.

Good luck, and be strong: it sounds like you've created a great life for you, dp and dc and if at the end of the day your SM is a jealous cow and your dad can't give you the validation you deserve you've still achieved all that. X