Just friends .... your opinions ( long )

[milkykid]

Okay, not sure why I am posting this as I know DP is not having an affair, maybe I just need some rationalisation ?!

I have name changed, although, I dont post here alot.

Basically, have been with DP for 3 years, we have a 7 month old DS and a 7 year old DS from a previous marriage.

DP is a very sociable person, has lots of friends and makes friends easily. He goes out regularly. None of this is a problem. I used to go along with him, before the baby came.(and pregnancy)

Anyway the thing is.... DP goes to the pub after work with a male work friend sometimes....sometimes, he is out all night and crashes at this male friends... all of this i know for real, as I speak to the male friend.

Recently, say around August, a female 20 year old has been in the work social picture alot aswell.

It all started with a work colleagues birthday and drinks after work. DP was on a spare mattress in the lounge, as I didnt want him in our bedroom as he had been socially smoking (because of baby).

Anyway, his iphone was on the book shelf, on his side of the bed, I think i was awake as I had just sent DP into the lounge. Anyway his phone buzzes and lights up with a message from female persons name, this is about 1am on a saturday morning..... so I open his messages as I always used to use his iphone, and it says " im lost, how do i get home from * and then some silly face "

I instantly started shaking and feeling sick.... as my EX H cheated on me and walked out on me and DS at 2.... it was like everything you had put away had just punched me in the guts... so I stupidly replied saying ' where are you ?' and she then replied * (near their work) . I then deleted my text and stormed into the lounge and woke up DP and asked him who female was and why is she texting you now ?

He explained and was very calm. All seemed ok, but its something i have held onto since then.

Also i read one of DP's emails to a old friend who had just split up from a long relationship, suggesting this female friend at work to him; who had big boobs, liked older men and was into oral sex ! WTF !?

So a few work events have happened since and I know that she was been there..... they are friends on FB and I know he/she texts daily, to go for a smoke together.
A few weeks ago he was out till 4am and told me he was going somewhere he didnt, i later found out he went to pub with male and female work colleague and then male went home at 11.30pm and DP stayed out at bar/club with female colleague !

I basically have been reading his messages, FB and looking at photos he has taken whilst out !

He has assured me nothing is or will ever happen with her, but I cant seem to let it go. He said he sees my point of view, as we had a big talk after he lied ( said he thought i would get upset that she was there again!) and he wouldnt like it if it was me doing it.

He only texts her a few times in work time as they arent allowed to email at work, plus he never contacts her in the evening or weekends, he has alot of female friends which has never been a problem till now, as I dont know her and she is 20 ! DP is 33, I am 35.

I keep thinking back to my EX H and expecting things to go the same way..... I know nothing is going on but im obviously really bothered and its causing me to be a paranoid neurotic snoop...... Im scared its going to ruin our relationship.

Am I out of order ? Would you be pissed off ?

It may be right in your eyes for now but there are still underlying issues here that need addressing. Do not let your guard down now.

Are they still FB friends?.

"We're just good friends"

Four very dangerous words actually.

So men and women cant be friends ?

What underlying issues ?

Men and women of course can be platonic friends but such lines were crossed by both your partner and this 20 year old some time ago. He is not above lying to you about her either.

So at what point can I let it go ?

Why would he tell another bloke that she was "into oral sex" ? At the least that means that the pair of them have been discussing her sexual preferences. In my book, that's definitely overstepping the mark if a man and a woman are supposed to be "just friends" .... it's giving away very intimate information, why would she feel the need to tell a male friend that kind of info about herself ? .... dress it up as 2 adults having a serious conversation (yeah right) all you like but I tend to think that's a come-on and/or her attempting to titillate him.

catsmother - yes i agree. i did go ballistic about that ! i think she may have been saying it in front of other male colleague aswell, of whom she apparently fancies, but he is in love with the bar maid !

basically he hasnt been out late with her for few weeks now, he is a sociable guy and enjoys everyone socially, he knows hes been an idiot and and listened and done what ive asked ..... i dont want to ruin relationship over paranoia !?

Milkykid I think your instincts are serving you very well here, so your boundaries are in place, but you have been conditioned to fight against them, which explains why you contradict yourself so often on this thread and perhaps feel a little defensive when posters query your DP's behaviour and your response to it.

This issue crops up time and time again on Mumsnet and posters who mention boundaries and "safe" friendships, are frequently misunderstood and subjected to a barrage of piss-taking and misinterpretation.

Friendships with the opposite sex, or same-sex gay friends, are enriching, life-enhancing and rewarding. However, it is wholly disingenuous to pretend that affairs are never the result of a friendship that has somehow crossed the line.

The friendship of this kind that isn't safe is when:

• There is secrecy and lying, either about the existence of the friend or the content of his interactions with her.
• There is sexual chemistry.
• She knows more about your relationship than you know about hers, with your DP.

From the evidence of your thread, this friendship fails the above test on many levels. He has lied about it - and projected the reason for that on to you and your jealousy, to boot. Discussions about her liking for oral sex are certainly not innocent, regardless of who else was present. Reducing her qualities to this, when "recommending" her to his friend, speaks volumes too. Lastly, I wonder how he represents your relationship on these nights out? I wonder does he express high satisfaction levels in his relationship and about you?

This is not a safe friendship at all. You have already said that he would regard it unsafe, if you had a similar friendship. Now If I were you, I would be questioning those double-standards, but it matters not as far as your own boundaries are concerned. You are right to be concerned about this and you do not have to pretend that you are not.

Progressing from snooping, to stating your very clear boundaries about both of your friendships, is the way to go here.

Weren't you meant to be meeting them all for lunch today and making a surprise entrance?

Hi milkykid, your case resembles so much mine that I can not believe it!!!! That is a long time ago, and I did fail to save the marriage from the torture, everything started in a extremely similar way to what it is happening with you now. The piece that made my marriage fall was the lying to me to stay with his friend (I see that happened to you already). That made me crazy, crossed all my boundaries, and then I started to investigate his every movement. Now everything ended in disaster for me, and he is best friend his her yet. Looking back, although i can not advice anything wise because myselft could not cope with the problem, the only thing bothers me is that I cried, I had bad time, I got jealous, and lost myself in the 'fight'. If I were again in the same situation, I would just clearly explain, well DH this is not acceptable for me, it is hurting (which I did), and up to him to act on that (what he did not, he carried on). but I would not stay if he kept on behaving the same way, that was my mistake I believe. I suggest just clearly explain to him what it is acceptable for you (and above they are completely right about him better coming back early with his wife and young children) and what is not, let him think and act on that, and trust him (my husband did go crazy if I checked his texts, calls, if yours is same, just do not do it), enjoy your life, do not think about it or it may become an obsession, and if he loves you he will make sure he does not upset you anymore. If something else is going on with that girl, well he will still be going out till late, and you will know that it is time to leave him, and he may realize that the game is not worthy loosing his wife and children, or he may not, and that would be the end, but DO NOT SUFFER FOR HIM, just hope you do not have to go through the same hell I did,

I cant keep going on about stuff that happened months ago.... ?? How am I supposed to bring this up again ?

This reads a lot like my own experience, from trying to be cool to setting the boundaries I'd tolerate to defending him when mn'ers had a go at him. He lied to keep a girl he'd met a secret, even misdirected by saying it was a female work colleague texting him (which brought work colleague into question as I knew they'd 'clicked' and he'd spent an odd night at her flat after parties I wasn't invited to which pleased my then pregnant self no end as you can imagine...) as it happens his female work colleague was pefectly harmless, although I know they had had intimate conversations as I saw them on chat once on FB. I questioned him, he went ballistic over privacy and once again the blame was back on me. Paranoid, jealous, wasn't he allowed female friends... Yeah but chat like that is above and beyond acceptable or appropriate. Just keep your eyes open milky, and dont let him make out it's your problem to deal with. If he's the man you think he is he will put your feelings before his social life. It's not worth ending an otherwise great relationship over in my opinion but it does need seriously nipping in the bud and a clear 'if this carries on I may not be around to witness it' approach. God, hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it. Good luck x x

Dp is at home today, he was supposed to be off monday but decided to take today as he was tired.... so i cant go to meet them today ! Ive just been swimming though :)

I feel bad talking about him on here, isnt that double standards ?

I have set the boundaries and he hasnt been out with her by themselves since I explained to him.... I think he liked her attention, but i dont think he would act on it basically.... and I have been through this all before !

Dont know what i am supposed to say if he has been behaving since the chat ?

Of course you can raise things that have happeneded in the past - this is an ongoing issue and there has been no previous resolution to it. The passage of time doesn't allow him to simply refuse to deal with it.

Frankly my alarm bells would be ringing overtime - in your own opinion he finds her cute and that he would want something to happen if you weren't about. If that is really the case and he continues to go out drinking with her for half the night it is only a matter of time before the line is well and truely crossed.

In the meantime you need to make it clear that he is behaving like a fuckwit and that he stays at home with you and your baby. If he doesn't like that or is not prepared to do that then you need to seriously question your relationship.

As long as he keeps behaving I guess you don't need to say anything just let your instincts be your guide and for what its worth I feel lousy talking about my p on here too but it's helped to clear my head and been a place to say hmm, am I paranoid or do I actually have a point? You really don't have to take anyones advice it's just good to know you're not the only one with 'stuff' going on x x

Hi again milkykid, I am glad to read that he is respecting the RULES, and behaving as he should, that means he is into YOU, and your family and life, and well if he carries on being good, just 'forget about her', I mean leave it as it is, (you say he may have enjoyed her attention, as you have a 7 month old most of your attention has naturally drifted to your new arrival, may he be needing some more of 'your attention'?). It may be good for you to meet her, anyway.
He responded in the right way to your chat, and put you before anything else, and he did not blame you (as jinx1 said, being accused of jealous, paranoid, crazy, antisocial was the response I got from my exDH in the same situation), I think your problem may be ended, wish so.

thanks lydiMama and jinx :)

were off to pub for a pint in a mo, will post back later.

i read your posts jinx, so sad ! i really feel for you its a horrendous situation to be in and i have been thru it before but remember a storm will not last forever, the sun will shows its face again and you will be happy again ! x

Thanks milky, hope it all works out for you x x

can I just add another tiny little note of caution for you to think about, milky

being home at 12:45 (reasonable time ? ok, I will have to take your word for that...it wouldn't be in my house if someone had a history of lying) is no guarantee against any funny stuff going on

affairs are conducted at any time of day, you know

all I am saying is, "rules" are one thing, but make sure they are actually capable of reassuring you properly

He's a shitbum. Why is he swanning about getting pissed etc when you're at home with the dc?

I think your DH is behaving as if he is a single man. I would be very uncomfortable about my husband being out drinking when he could and should be home with me and our children. The DC are not just your responsibility.

I know lots of women are okay with their DHs going out lots without them, but I want my husband to want to be with me more than he wants to be with other people. The working day is long and when it is over, I think couples should socialise together and care for their children together. It sounds to me like your husband is having a lot of his fun with other people and that is dangerous for your marriage.
Not saying you have to be joined at the hip, but you should be together more than you are not iyswim.

I think his interactions with this woman have the potential to turn into something, particularly if they have both been drinking. He's having a laugh and flirting with her, when he ought to be doing those things with you.

In your position I would tell my DH he has crossed the line and to end the association. I wouldn't give a rats arse about his right to female friendships blah, blah, blah. This is going beyond acceptable behaviour. At best he is being very immature.

Karma is right, as soon as my was socialising more with others than with me he saw their single life as much more fun and became dissatisfied with all he had with me and kids. Hope you get your dp to see sense better than I did mine x

AF - regardless of previous lying 12:45 would not be an acceptable time to return home if I had been expecting him home at 9pm.

Add into the mix drinking with a woman who he found to be "cute" and me at home with a 7mth old and there wouldn't be too much understanding in the NancyDrew household!

chinese whispers springs to mind !

he isnt out more than he is with us. he goes out after work once a week. He spends all of the rest of his time here with us and me.
he takes ds1 to school 2 days a week so i get a rest.
he looks after both ds's so i can swim 3 times a week.

he has never got cross with me questioning him.

once im back at work i will be going out socially too, we are both like this.

he will from january be reducing his working hours and will be working 2 days from home so he can help look after ds2. As i will be working full time and am the main income.

i just wanted to add some other things about him.

I do wonder why some people post, and then when they get a barrage of "he is BU", they do a complete about-turn and suddenly he is Mr Wonderful.