Update on this bloody mess - please be kind

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

After running away from mumsnet slightly shell shocked after the responses to my last threads, I am back and plucked up courage to post an update.

The last posts were about me sharing that dh (or h that should be) had hit me once, and also under another name worried dh could get custody. (H has to do alot of the childcare as I need to work (money), and he also needs to help me around the house, as I have health issues and have no one else to support me. both I hope and pray will be cured over time, but means he's more in my life than i'd like really)

Those two threads rather exploded in my face so am hoping you'll be a bit gentler with me on this one. To get something straight up front - i'm not in any danger, my ds is not in any danger and its all very upsetting, but not dangerous.

So here is the update - sorry its another very long and rambling one. will be impressed if anyone reads through this! I guess its more of an update to myself to put a flag in the ground of what is happening at the moment.

I sat down and discussed my concerns with h, who agreed that he is really screwed up and not able to handle someone demanding a close and mature relationship. He did reassure me he has no intention of ever taking away ds, and I do believe that. Things between us have relaxed a bit now he knows I am not trying to hold him to any kind of relationship. I have no respect for him, and just want to be able to heal myself from him.

I was still quite shaken up by the whole hitting incident, and following some advice from here, I decided to tell my gp, who had been very nice about other issues.

She has really pushed to get me seen by the right consultants for my health issues, and put me on anti-ds & has referred me for counselling cos of all this stuff happening and history of awful parents etc etc. I also told her at this same appointment that one of the things the consultants are investigating is that I might have a condition, which might be the thing that killed my sister 2 years ago - as you can imagine am having trouble holding anything together...

However, telling her about dh turned out to be the worst thing I could have done - and have had the most horrible time because of it. Am sure that wasn't intended btw, just a bit ironic i think that I thought this was going to be a good step forwards... and really screwed up my courage to do so.

So here was the good bit: Having told my GP, and it really helped having someone to work it through with, I went away feeling much clearer about the whole thing, and realised that a door in my heart has definately closed and dh has no power over me anymore (or at least, alot less, need to work in the practicalities of NO power).

I also realised that I don't really have a sense of self, and so thats why i was getting very confused about whether ds was in any risk (no matter how small)... the answer is a definite NO, it wasn't clear before because I was having trouble distinguishing myself and ds as two separate people as I love him so so so so much. I mean, so if I felt upset and emotionally damaged, I immediately felt that he was at risk, projecting my emotions, which ended up confusing the hell out of me. I couldn't work out why my gut was telling me that ds wasn't at risk in any way, yet my emotions were sending me panic signals all over the place.

So the upshot was, I made the decision to carry on letting dh see ds for quite a lot of time during then working week, but also that I would do a shorter week, and work flexi-time and at home alot, so I am around most of the time as well. This means that I get to see ds most of the day, so I feel better as i don't want to leave him with anyone yet, and also, I can carry on working and earning enough money to pay the rent (just).

Now here's the bit where it all unravels... the next day, I get a phone call from my gp, who sounds really upset and sorry, but says she just mentioned my situation to another gp in the practise, and shes been told she has to report me to social services :-(

Because ds is under one year they have to report dv immediately, even if they think the situation isn;t worrying. She didn't want to but had to by law. So I completely panicked, all the stories of ss taking children and forcing adoptions through wrongly come to mind, especially stories where they seem to gun after the middle classes when they come onto their radar (i have posh voice for my sins, and I do notice that some people react badly to it, shame as the voice is an accident not an indicator of class at all!).

btw, totally understand how this law came to pass, and do feel that they need to be on top of any risk to children, however, am not convinced that the system works and terrified at people (overworked, under trained, scared of making a mistake) having that amount of power over my darling boy (ds obviously, not dh!)

Anyway, freaking out, ended up telling a rl friend of mine, who is a councellor working with women effected by dv (usefully for me!). She reassures me that most of these types of reports are not followed up / taken seriously by ss unless there is a report from more than one source or the dh is still living in the home. Also reassured me that they do anything to keep the children with their mother and in contact with father, so dont get too worried,

So I calm down a bit, and decide to wait it out. Did tell dh, and was quite impressed by his reaction (was worried he'd be angry and blame me for it all). He thought it was awful but did understand it wasn't my fault, and did realise that this is the consequences of his own actions...

5 days later, am starting to feel like this is all a storm in a teacup, when I get a phone call from social services to say 'we are in the area and will be round in 20 mins to do an assessment'... i was in bed wearing a nightie with hot chocolate down it, simultaneously breast feeding ds and typing a report for work, and have a presentation in 45 mins that I am running late for, the house is a tip, lots of dirty plates and empty baby bottles scattered around, and washing everywhere etc. I must have sounded horrified, as she then started telling me that they had written to make this appointment so I should be prepared, and seemed skeptical when I said I hadn't received any letter. She grudgingly rearranged appointment for the next day.

Appointment was awful, she didn't listen to a word I said, just parrotted the same stuff that applies to a very risky and active dv situation.

She said in the same sentence 'I am here to help you, I am not here to judge you, I am here to support families not break them up'... and 'I have recommended children be taken away from both the mother and the father in cases like these'... basically, my worst nightmare.

I wish I'd had time to arrange someone else to be there, as it was just awful, felt nothing I said rang true, she kept twisting my words so it sounded like I was trying to defend dh, which am bloody not, he's crap.

anyway, am not sure if she really understood that my ds is my whole life and if anything, the issue is that I over react when it comes to his safety, not that i'd sit there and let someone who was even the tiniest risk to him within 100 miles of him...

She kept asking me things like 'arent you scared that dh could let himself into the house in the middle of the night and hurt you and ds'... and I had no idea how to answer... as no didnt seem to be the 'right' response. what was i supposed to bloody say, cos no I am not scared of that, its completely ridiculous to suggest such a thing, nothing points towards that ever being a possibility... kind of wanted to say 'no, i should be more scared that I've just let a complete stranger into my house, which would be you!'.

And then she asked me if dh ever hit me again would I feel comfortable telling my gp... which I thought was a ridiculous question, as no i definitely would not, not if this is what happens! So I didnt answer that question 'right' either... I tried to explain that although I wouldn't probably tell the gp initially, I would take strong and legal measures to protect myself & ds [i.e. get solictor to file for restraining orders, change locks/ move flats etc etc]... but I think she stopped listening when I said 'but its not going to happen again anyway'...

She interviewed dh as well, who cant remember what she asked him (he blanks out when under pressure most annoyingly).

She then told me that she would check with the health visitor to see if ds is healthy (thank god we'd just been to see her last week, at least she can be positive surely), and then the social services would make their assessment and decide whether to take anything further. She said that I seemed like a very good mum and there were no worries on that score...

But then she then went on to tell me that if she heard any more reports of any kind relating to me or ds, they would take swift action (implication being they'd take ds away from me). This includes neighbours reporting raised voices and loads of other things I forgot in the heat of the moment. Am so so angry about that, what exactly does she think this will achieve?! if I was still being abused by my dh, wouldn't that just mean that she'd cut off any routes of escape for me?!

so absolutely hideous experience - who benefits exactly i ask you? not ds as I don't think any of that was in his interests, thank god he's too little to know what was going on.

so now am waiting to hear what children's services have decided to do... talk about making a bad situation even worse.

also am waiting to hear about health issues (don't even want to think about hereditary element of that), and ds has a cold and isnt eating, and am scared to take him to the hv as they might think am neglecting him, and I have an ear infection (from the same cold), and dont want to go to gp as i feel betrayed (i know i shouldnt, she was doing her job, but i do still, took so much to open up to her at all...)

so in all, its all crap and I tried to get rl support and it back fired massively :-( The way I see it is that at best social services will decide there's no risk and leave me shaken but ok, but they could also say that dh cant see ds, which means they'll have taken away the only person who helps me /acts a bit like a carer cos I have such limited mobility (except until this gp no one would take that seriously either so no hope getting any proper help). Not even going to think about what else they could do... god its all so bloody awful..

Nathan, so you would think it was a good idea for someone who has hit you to have power over you afterwards by being your carer? That is a very dangerous idea. The OP needs help from people who don't have an agenda.

'she kept twisting my words so it sounded like I was trying to defend dh, which am bloody not, he's crap. '

DoubleLife, I was on your other thread and your description of the DH was nothing like what you have posted here except in some small parts. The SS picked up on this. I picked up on this and I am not a social worker. They are not twisting your words. He hit you and he hit you hard. But somehow you know in your gut he would never hurt your DS.
He hurt you and frightened you so much that you have now tried to convince yourself that you can live with him and somehow control the threat.

DoubleLife, 'they' want you to find some way to get the DH out of your house and not come back. They want you to stop defending him and start listening to your gut and take the question of your DS's safety seriously even if your can't do that for the sake of your own safety. The social worker told you about children being removed so that you would take the situation seriously. She wants you to cut the ties to this man, all of them.

You felt the strength of this man when he hit you before and you know what he could do if he took it into his head to do it again.

What they did was clunky and hamfisted and almost designed to be very counterproductive, put your back up and go underground with your 'DH'. BUT -- you know the score now. When you feel yourself experiencing the paranoia about them checking up on you and the panic about the state of the house when they visit, remember that you personally have nothing to be ashamed of. You have a chronic illness, pain, and a huge amount of stress, and on top of this you are being the best mum you can be. BUT, you need to go to Women's Aid and find some way to end this relationship. Persuade SS that you are now in counselling and show them that you are taking serious steps for the sake of your DS. Find any and all alternatives to having him in the house and make the arrangements.

MaMoTTaT -- 'IME I would be as open with them as you can about your needs (what would make it possible for you not to have to rely on your exH - as obviously that's not ideal - even without the DV situation taken into account) and what steps you have/will take to ensure that your DS and yourself are safe when he's there etc.

IME they come down heavy to start with, they don't know what the "actual" story is, it would be very easy for a frightened woman to say something had never happened before, and for it to be a regular occurrence iykwim so they have to err on the side of caution until they've done their initial assessments.'

All SO true. DoubleLife, you have to work with them. In the end, they are not The Enemy.

I sincerely hope this thread doesn't turn into a 'let's all pile in and bash Social Services fest' because this is a case of real violence and the threat of more.

Hi double not a comment on your situation as such just a suggestion of somewhere you could get some weekly help. HomeStart is a charity that places volunteer mums with any family with under 5 year old kids that is struggling for an reason. I just trained as a volunteer and think it could be helpful for you. See if they are in your area and you can self refer or ask HV/GP to recommend you. You just get a 2-3 hour visit from a friendly person who can offer practical help and a non-judgey listening ear/shoulder to cry on.

Good luck with everything

"any" reason

look this is your chance to get SS to give you the help you ened so you dont have to take help from your ex.

he can see Ds in contact centre whatever -ask SS to help organize this.

SS need to assess your needs as a disabled parent. you ened to get on phone to disability advocacy in your area and get the right support for you as a disabled parent.

and yes - for purposes of getting help you need to call yourself "disabled" not "limted mobility" .

write down the kind of help you need and when and for hown long. for each day. they can arange for you to have personal assistant to help you.

i was nearly killed at the hands of an increasingly violent ex h....it started low level,then involved the dc

is your ex getting any 'help' for what he did? did you report him to the police??

I think you need to go back and re-read your other thread - the part where you explained to us what happened that night.

Can you not see why SS need to be involved?

Oh and this is a btw, you say in your other thread you want more children - can you not see that this is unreasonable for the foreseeable future? You are really struggling to manage physically - and I'm very sorry you are going through that - and you are struggling to care for yourself and your existing child. How can you think of bringing more children into this situation?

whatever your illness or disability is....i cant see from skimminfg the thread.....perhaps ss can get you some help??

i think if its this bad,you need to accept that help is needed here,and a dangerous man is NOT the right person for this

I'm really confused. The OP has said that she split from her partner and he no longer lives there. If that's true, then posts like mathanxiety's are irrelevant.

But perhaps the issue is that it's not a permament split and SS is picking up on that?

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved - I just wanted to say thank you for coming back and updating us on the situation. I was very very concerned for you after the last post and I know that some of the strength of feeling of the replies seemed to freak you out a little.
I realise that this is a horrible situation for you with SS but I am very glad you actually talked to your GP in RL.
Hoping all starts to get better for you. There is help for you out there, you just need to ask and know who to ask.
{{{hugs}}}

he doesnt live there.....that does not remove the danger....he still comes and goes and see's the DS. its the DS who is at risk,they arent bothered about the op,but the baby will be their priority

MaMoTTat thanks for your honest answers. In the sensibleness of the morning, it does seem logical that a first assessment they would treat it according to a certain script, and then make their own decision afterwards. So I shouldnt read anything into it actually at the moment.

Am so relieved you know what I mean by twisting words. Its very easy to sit in judgement and say that they are obviously right, but there isn't really a way of explaining an individual situation with any credibility when everything you say is taken as 'battered women say that and its not true'.

that goes for some of the people on this thread as well. I can never convince you once you have decided there is a risk to my ds, as everything I say will show you I am negligent in some way, rather than maybe able to assess the situation myself. And I do see that indeed, you have no reason to believe me, and every time I even start to explain something about the specific situation people shout 'its no excuse he's an abuser', and yes, i agree, whatever his reasons, he has been awful to me. Which is why we are not together any more. And never will be.

I may be making a mistake, but I will reply to the concerns explaining just a bit again. Am hoping this will stop the thread descending into what it did last time. But maybe it will fan the flames and I still won't be able to have a more balanced conversation and thoughts about it. hope not, as I really look at mumsnet as a good place to get support and a range of opinions, rather than just get shouted at... am probably over reacting as well, but I am feeling very tender at the moment.

again op,is he getting any help???

Dignified how awful for you, and thanks for your support. That's EXACTLY what I could see happening and it makes me angry that if I was in a situation where violence was continuing, I'd feel cut off by the people that are supposed to help.

I indeed don't want to turn it into a ss bashing thread, but I do feel better to know that its just not me who felt they were heavy handed. Am trying to think why they would do this, and drawing a bit of a blank. Maybe they want people to take it seriously, and think this will jerk people out of 'victim' mode and into protect my kids mode... however, for me it feels like they are not people who I would confide in or turn to for help.

It also made me realise that I have definitely turned a corner in terms of the way I am feeling, as I now know that I do indeed feel that it's not going to happen again - instantly was angry on behalf of other people, not feeling trapped and panicking about myself.

She social worker pushed and pushed about what I'd do if it happened again, and I maybe didn't handle that very well in terms of saying the 'right' thing, as I focused first on explaining why I don't think it will happen again.

However, thinking about it, what I would do IF it happened again, would be to move out that second with DS and stay in a hotel/ maybe friends house. Then get a solicitor immediately and fight any battles through him/her, so I wasn't turned into just me against lots of official scariness. I would be getting restraining orders/ injunctions not to have him near us, and visits only in centres etc. What I wouldn't be doing is except ss to protect me, or my gp.

Dignified, I remember some of your threads from before, and was appalled by what you were going through. Also I remember you posted on stuff I wrote before as well, with really thoughtful insights. So, just wanted to say - you seem like a really strong and wise lady, who deserves some praise

atswimtwolengths yes I can see why they'd need to check out the situation. I just am freaking out at the way they did it and the waiting now to find out what they say... I feel 'told off', rather than supported.

I guess I can't imagine what other situations they see everyday for them to even think for a second that ds is not my absolute priority (but the trouble is, there's no way of showing them that, everything I've said someone will have said before and not meant it, so am screwed really).

On your point about other children, trying not to be insulted at that, as am not good at explaining things. What I meant is... yes i absolutely want loads of kids, but not by this man, I don't want him in my life at all really, and am looking forwards to a time when I am not reliant on him for a single tiny thing, and my focus is now on two things:

1. getting myself not practically relying on him (more in this in next post)
2. getting started on the emotional journey to change the way I see myself and relate to people

All aimed at the idea that maybe someday I'll meet someone lovely and kind and gentle and amazing, and I want to be in the position to recognise him and get close to someone again. But not now! its a dream I thought had died, and I am gently and quietly hoping that maybe theres still a chance I can create the family I'd love to have (for me and ds).

SprinkleDust no he isn't getting any help. I do think it would be a good idea, and if social services recommended he did and made that happen, I would be really happy. wow, that is actually one positive thing that maybe could come out of it.

do you have any idea what help could be good for someone like him? we have tried counselling/ psychologists before(when we were together) and i have concluded that 'talking therapies' in their normal way aren;t a match with what he needs, as he's not able to articulate or sense his own feelings, so just becomes an exercise in acting.

The reason I haven't pushed it with him is that it needs a really skilled professional as opening up his problems is completely overwhelming to him, and needs doing in a very safe environment.

Thats why he hit out at me you see, when I was just pushing and pushing at the mental barriers he set up and he'd do anything rather than let those come down. Thats why I also feel that the risk isn't there for DS, as it was such as adult dynamic going on when it happened, which couldn't be recreated by anyone except me (and i certainly wont be going there again.) And no, before anyone jumps in with 'you're excusing him', no I am not. what he did was unacceptable, and he knows that.

Thats why he cannot be my husband, and can only be a 'part time' father.

DoubleLife, just want to let you know there are a lot of people here who really, truly care what happens to you, and who have been in your shoes, some more than others.

Fear of having the children taken away is the huge thing that keeps women from reporting abuse and though I can see SS would use it to jolt a woman into taking action, I think it also results in a lot of horrible situations going underground and staying there. Everything is scary when there's someone scary in your life, the really scary items and those who seem to be pressuring you alike and hard to distinguish from each other. It's natural to choose the devil you know when you feel your back is up against the wall. 'Maybe they want people to take it seriously, and think this will jerk people out of 'victim' mode and into protect my kids mode... however, for me it feels like they are not people who I would confide in or turn to for help.' This rang very true -- but they are on your side, not against you even though they are very clunky in their approach. They don't want you hurt, with a broken arm or ribs or a concussion or bruised kidneys, and unable to take care of your DS.

I think you must tell the social worker that you want to work with them and ask for their suggestions, also tell them exactly what you need in terms of practical help. Don't underestimate it. They want you free of this man. They don't want him coming and going. They want a lock on the door and no key for him.

Underneath it all, do you want him around? Do you believe you can live without him?

Do you feel that you can ask him not to come around any more?

Do you feel you can tell him he must seek proper help for his problems?

Do you feel you could deliver an ultimatum to him about getting help and staying away until he has found treatment?

You will need to show the social worker that you have a friend lined up and an escape plan for that 'IF' that hangs over you. You will need to have a solicitor's number, maybe even a free consultation under your belt about your options. Please, please go to Women's Aid and talk to them about the whole thing, as well as what SS have said. 0808 2000 247

What SS have is a situation where you never saw that blow to the head coming before, and you are telling them you are sure it won't happen again. In all reasonableness, they simply cannot take your word for it that you can see into the future. They are obliged to take your situation seriously and investigate thoroughly. Please work with them.

I think I x-posted there.

various other people have mentioned getting practical help - can being really thick, but how can this happen?

who do I have to talk to? If there was any way of getting regular help, that would just be amazing.

Am worried there is nothing out there though, as I really want help so I can carry on working to provide ds with a home & future, rather than give up work altogether. And then it comes back to that old chestnut of money - do you have to earn below a certain amount to get any help? Cos I actually earn ok money, its just a lot goes on paying back loans.

I am really not in some weird abusive need support from dh, its genuinely as have no other practical help... as NathanJones said, am just doing what I can to get by - and if there was a better way, i'd do that instead.

ah mathsanxiety yes x posted. I was just replying to your earlier post, but have scrapped that as its now old.

am trying to work with them, and hopefully they think I am too, but this post is a bit of my safety valve as well, as I'm afraid I don't trust them at all (partly as they don't trust me either I feel).

in answer to your questions:

Underneath it all, do you want him around? Do you believe you can live without him?
yes, thats what has changed since last time I posted. I dont want to be with him, I dont have any hope that somehow things can work between us, and I do believe that whatever happens, we are better off without him.

Do you feel that you can ask him not to come around any more?
yes, & do feel that he'd stick to it if I made it clear he couldnt. I don't really want to do that though, as currently dont think its the best thing for anyone.

Do you feel you can tell him he must seek proper help for his problems?
i can tell him but he wont do it.

Do you feel you could deliver an ultimatum to him about getting help and staying away until he has found treatment?
i think that would result in him just staying away. maybe if ss gave him that ultimatum he might engage with it...

Social services, Homestart, any disability charity that focuses on helping people with your disability, Some links, maybe a few ideas -- ask the social worker asap what there might be out there, or contact a hospital social worker.

just looked at homestart, will pluck up courage to contact them...

(social services didn't even leave a contact name or number for me, and as the letter from them never arrived, I have no details from them at all)

I think you're on the right track, DoubleLife.

There is a point where his problems are entirely his own responsibility though. If he were to go away and stay away after an ultimatum, would that be so horrible? Do you fear violence from him if you were to give him an ultimatum? Do you think you would need some backup if you were to give him an ultimatum about it?

If SS were to give an ultimatum it could only give him the idea that he could be back with you, IYSWIM. His problems are outside of their remit; they can only help you and your DS.

he could go on abusers courses and of course there is anger management. i dont rate it myself....ex had several courses,but it must help some

good luck!

MrsSOAK, thanks so much (pathetically grateful smiley), hugs and grabs another hug instead of letting go!