please help ..... can't deal with liar

[chattymitchy]

please help ... I'm coming to my wits end as to how to deal with XP over access to DS. Very short version of story - he didn't want DS, dumped me when 3 months pregnant, was horribly abusive emotionally. Then said he wanted to be a dad to DS .. which was fine. He came down after birth and created agreement with my dad about his visits etc (because he is so bullying to me I didn't feel I could deal with him). He says he wants to visit once a month. This begins. He lies about CSA constantly for months, and 10 months later still hasn't sorted it. After first six months he says he wants totally unsupervised visits. I say he needs to come more often so that DS starts to recognise him etc - he says no. Claims I am demanding and obstructing his access. Says he is bringing an assessor who will ensure that he gets unsupervised access. A total lie. There is no assessor.

I go to solicitor - she says he should come more often. In the end he does start coming weekly but claims he wasn't able to come more often than monthly before because we had stopped him .. clearly another lie. Then a month later after he starts visiting weekly I get a court order from him taking me to court for unsupervised access, and INCREASED access from monthly to fortnightly ... even though at the time he wrote the court application he was visiting weekly ... (so another lie). We get to court yesterday, his barrister stands up and says that my parent's forced him to sign the initial agreement, forced him to say he wouldn't come down more than once a month and said he couldn't visit if he didn't sort out CSA ... (all lies, most obviously because he wrote to my dad when he signed the agreement
saying he thought it was a good reflection of their conversations, and to thank him for being so reasonable ....)

So ... although we then went through mediation on the day - he has managed to REDUCE his access back to fortnightly from the beginning of next year, whilst still claiming that my family obstructed his visits etc.

I proposed that I would take DS to a dad's morning at a surestart centre on Saturdays each week so that XP could spend time getting to know DS ... he said, NO, only once a fortnight.

I was then told by the mediator that he had cancelled his visit to see DS this weekend because something had come up ..... he only told me four days ago he was definitely coming, because we discussed it in detail when we were talking about which day of the weekend he was coming.

Anyway ..... sorry this is so so long.

His lies seem to have no consequences. And I can't cope with the thought of having to deal with him for the next 18 years. He makes a decision, then when it doesn't suit him he lies and said he was forced or bullied to make it. And even when texts, emails from him to me totally and utterly contradict what he says ... if I bring it up he just refuses to discuss it.

I'm so pissed off I'm tempted to say that I was 'forced' to say I would drop DS off at surestart and that I wasn't going to do it after all, and see how he likes it.

IF anyone has any constructive ways to deal with this sort of thing please let me know. I'm at my wits end, and I'm fed up of me and my family being attacked just so he can shift responsibility for his decisions back onto us.

ChattyMitchy,

He sounds like a pain in the butt, manipulating you emotionally.

However, your first concern has to be for your son. How does your son get on with him? If he likes him and has fun with him, why not just put up and shut up? I know it is annoying but if you are quite chilled about it, then you are only seeing your ex partner a few hours every couple of weeks.

Psychologically, his behaviour seems to me to be attention seeking. If you effectively ignore him (just say "yes, fine" to his requests as long as they don't put you out too much) he will probably tire of the game and either genuinely form a relationship with your child or not. In either case, you know where you stand. It is like a toddler throwing a tanty. The less attention paid, the better.

'If he likes him and has fun with him, why not just put up and shut up?' Sorry? I hope that was meant differently to how it came across!

Anyway - Pinemartina, I'm glad it worked for you too, and that someone understands what I am rattling on about

OP I think that you are struggling with the guilt about maybe your ds not having a decent father around. Believe me - it's far, far better for a child to have ONE stable, happy parent than two parents one of whom is stressed t the hilt and being abused, (which you are) and the other being a useless, unreliable, uncaring tosspot whose priority isn't seeing ds at all but having power over his mother.

Please let the guilt go - this is not your fault and you will only have the chance to be a really happy and confident parent once you get away from feeling you need to integrate this man into your child's life.

He sees your guilt and plays on it...you need to be really confident and bluff it a bit until you are. You've no reason to feel guilty. You are protecting your child. And staying reasonable. Ex will have to step up and be reasonable too if he wants any part in ds' life - which I'm not at all sure he does.

y y y ,Fa is spot on again.

I struggled with just that guilt.I have older dc who have regular,good contact with their fathers, and found it tough to get my head around the idea of not enabling baby dd to have the same.

But I was missing an important point...my xh's and I work at this together.It is not always easy,but we all want the best for our dc and have to put our own stuff aside as much as possible to try to achieve this.

Also,neither of them are abusers or bullies.

My xp was very hostile towards my xh's when we were together,and would criticize them re their contact with their dc.

Yet he was the one who chose to abuse me and to behave in just the same unreasonable way regarding his dd that you are now experiencing.

And he is choosing to stay away now.

Crap man.Crap Dad.

But I ,like you,am a good mum.And I am a far stronger,happier mum,and a better role model for all my dc,now that I have taken a stand against an abusive ar*h*e .

If he has any future role in our dd's life,it will be via the courts and I will make sure she is equipped with the knowledge and skills she will need to protect herself from manipulation and abuse.

oh thank you all so much [happy]

such good advice - I am permanently worried about doing the right thing, and not giving XP any ammo to throw back at me about how I ruined his relationship with his son - I'm actually taking responsibility for his behaviour, instead of letting him just get on with whatever tosspot behaviour he wants.

I think you're all totally right - I'm giving up on the 'let's be amicable' (which he tells me we have to be, before annihilating me and my family) and I'm just going to be cool and distant. Instead of permanently worrying about ensuring he doesn't have anything to moan about - I'm just going to do what we've agreed in court and nothing else.

And larrygrylls - I totally understand your point, but DS does not enjoy being with XP - mostly because XP is totally unnatural with him (fair enough, not every one is great with children) but also a real disciplinarian (weird when DS is only 10 months) ALso - because he never asks for help with DS is upset - he does weird things like trying to force DS to drink a bottle of water to 'soothe him' (wtf - why force a bottle into the mouth of a screaming baby who is clearly distraught - and more-so, to continue forcing bottle into DS's mouth even when I intervene and say don't - he doesn't like it).

I do see the thing about guilt - I've heard for so long that I 'got pregnant on purpose' and then 'discarded XP when he was surplas to requirements' (he dumped me by the way) - that I feel I have to keep enabling any kind of access he wants because he fundamentally feels that I ruined his life (which he told my parents).

Confusing.

But yes - from now on the bare minimum, and that will be easier to do now there is a court order. And at least he has to drop his demands for the moment.

One last thing - he has never yet been on time for his contact with DS (normally 20 - 30 mins late but it's every time, and then he leaves on the dot!). I've read on advice on here which says you shouldn't hang around waiting for fathers to turn up, but after 15 mins of waiting you should go out to encourage them to be on time! Fair, or just plain spiteful?

I don't know the answer to that - I went out one morning when ex was coming round, because he hadn't actually told me what time he was coming! And got back and he was walking up the road towards us very cross indeed

If you have a set time I think you are well within your rights to leave the house after 15 minutes - but do check with your solicitor as to how this will go down in court.

It might cause more aggro as ex will blame you and get angry. So unless you need to go out I wouldn't bother.

I am really shocked about him forcing the bottle into your ds's mouth

That's quite damaging. I'd call it abuse - do people know this is the sort of thing he does? Did you manage to stop him?

Poor ds.

Poor ds

I was advised by Womens Aid that my concerns about xp's parenting should be referred to the court as a request for parenting support for him as a condition of his having unsupervised contact. This despite xp having 2 grown up dc already,and being a teacher.

My solicitor took my concerns very seriously and outlined them in a letter,using non accusatory language.She told me it would be seen by the court as an indication of my good parenting that I would raise such concerns,and evidence of his unreasonable behaviour if xp refused an assessment.By refusing to comply,he would influence the decision of the court re his contact.

My concerns were that xp did not refrain from shouting abuse at me in babys' presence,and in fact did not consider that his shouting was abusive.And that he had not had recent experience of caring for a baby and may therefore have outdated ideas with regard to certain aspects of care.

I was told that any further concerns re his parenting - evidence,particularly witnessed - would also be submitted and would be taken seriously and fully explored.

I would also call forcing a baby to drink water as abuse.With such a young baby,this could cause choking very quickly.It will certainly be distressing and frightening for your dc.

This behaviour suggests that your ex should not be having unsupervised contact without parenting support.

Please speak to your health visitor,Gp and any other professionals involved as soon as possible.Do not minimise or play down this incident and think very carefully about anything else which may have given you cause for concern.

Tell your solicitor asap.

I understand the confusion that you feel - I have been there ,too.But from where I stand today - seven months on - there is no confusion in my mind.It sounds as though you may be minimising the extent to which your ex is perpetrating abuse towards you and your dc.
He is drawing on your reasonable and mature attitude towards parenting your dc in order to provoke guilt and to confuse you.This is manipulation and is deliberately intended to distress you and to give him power.

You are not dealing with a reasonable man.That is why your reasonable actions and intentions are leading to pain and confusion for you.

I think that once you realise this,it will be clear to you that putting your ds first and protecting him,means putting very clear - legal - boundaries in place ,regarding his "father".

Have you spoken to Womens Aid? My xp was not physically violent .I was amazed ,at first,when WA took my experiences seriously.But they were fantastic.I used to phone them after my x had ranted at me on the phone to check out if I was over-reacting!!
Now,I wouldn't even answer the phone!!

In fact,based on my x's behaviour on my doorstep when he came to see dd,the police installed a panic button on my phone and advised me not to open the door.

Because everyone recognised that his shouting and criticizing me was abusive towards me and dd.

Thanks Pinemartina and FR

I did speak to women's aid, and they were lovely - and they did take it seriously! I need to ring my local outreach branch on Monday to arrange to go and have a chat with them.

I did manage to stop XP from trying to force bottle into DS's mouth - although I had to ask twice, before basically telling him it was enough and that Rob does not get 'soothed' by being forced to drink water ... XP was clearly unhappy that I had dared to step in to comment on his parenting skills .....

Anyway - he's coming tomorrow - so will print out this thread and try to put the wall up in my head, and not be so scared of him and his lies and manipulation. As of now - no more Miss Nicey Nicey - just cool and distant, and I definitely am going to intervene earlier when I see DS getting upset with XP.

Will let you know how we get on!!

Brilliant, well done! I think what I meant by the wall, was having other people in your life that are important and relevant (your family sounds great) and he will therefore seem less important, whatever he does it won't matter too much because you will never have to like him, and basically he can't touch you.

Good luck