Prospective in-law

[dullard63]

Am I being overly concerned - a single man about to marry into the family offers to go upstairs three nights running to help get three young girls (all under 9) ready for bed - their mother was present. While he was upstairs his fiancee stayed downstairs on the sofa watching TV. When their father followed him up on the third night he immediately turned round and came down. At a family dinner, the two older children described the youngest as this chap's "special friend". He and his fiancee (the family member) have babysat the children on a couple of occasions. He has no children himself. Whenever he is with the children it is the youngest - under 4 - he pays most attention to. Would welcome any feedback.

You sound uncomfortable which is, presumably why you're asking for other people's opinions.

I'm not sure why he would be involved in putting the children to bed when their own mother was their to look after them. Not that there's anything to be worried about on the face of it, perhaps he just likes children. Is he just as attentive the rest of the time?

Are you saying that the children's mother was with them upstairs when the single man was helping to put them to bed? If so, then I don't think there is a problem.

Not with the older ones - his attention is always on the younger.

I have seen him pick up the younger child and hug her very tightly with his eyes closed. She has lately avoided him - when he tries to pick her up she runs to her father. It's the babysitting thing I'm most worried about.

not sure I understand.

Do you suspect this man of something?

Do you think he is abusing or grooming the youngest dullard, is that what you are trying to say?

I'm worried about the grooming and the fact that he will have access to her. I feel uncomfortable when he is around her but I could be basing this on a warped perception re the extensive coverage of child sexual abuse. However there are other single men in and outside the family who lark around with the children and I don't get the same feeling.

What does the mother / father think?

The father raised it with my husband and I (his parents) initially - he was concerned at him going upstairs when the children were being bathed and the attention he gave the youngest. I had been uncomfortable prior to this but had not mentioned it to anyone. My daughter-in-law is a very sensible person but this chap is coming into the family on her side and she understandably feels defensive. She likes him and does not think there is a problem. The reason I asked for feedback was to check whether my discomfort and my son's had any basis. We are both in professions that require a degree of cynicism.

I'd be concerned. Especially after reading 'protecting the gift' by Gavin De Bekker.
Trust your instincts basically is what he says on this subject. If something makes you feel uncomfortable don't ignore it.

I'd be concerned as well re the children and particularly the youngest. I would not ignore any uncomfortable instincts here.

I would give the NSPCC a call and talk this through with them.

How long have they been together?.

Agree with trusting instincts. At the least he may just be too intense, and by fixing on the younger one (quite possibly for entirely benign reasons) bombarding her with more affection and attention than she is comfortable with.

I think some men who have had little to do with small children can be surprised how much they like them and feel affection for them, and men can be just as cuddly with kids as women. However, if you haven't had your own you're much more likely to smother the child with attention.

It's also true that if you are with a group of people who you don't really know, being with or helping out with the children is both a helpful role and a distraction from the feeling of not quite fitting in yet. I've certainly done that. the younger the child, the more instantly accepting they are, so that may be why he spends most time with the youngest.

On a less charitable note, I think prudent boundaries are a very good idea here. The parents need to take charge and give him less space and time with their children if they're not happy. If he is picking up the younger one and hugging her he needs to be asked to leave her be. I wouldn't feel at all guilty for acting on discomfort, either.

They have been together for three years.

My daughter-in-law has met the family - she likes them all - my son has only met the chap involved and says he just can't take to him.

I would hate to misjudge someone who may just love children so I will go carefully.

Thank you all for your comments and advice - it's my first posting on here and it has been very helpful.

TBH, I think that if you and your son feel concerned then you should listen to this. From what you've said, there's no clear reason to think that he's a threat to the children. However, if there is part of you that feels worried then I do think that you should listen to this.

It might mean making sure that he's never in a position that he can be alone with the children and this would mean that other arrangements have to be made for babysitters.

Has nobody spoken to the children?

I do think it's very strange - usually when a new man comes to a family, he might make a fuss of the children (as in treating them to ice-creams etc) or play football with them, etc, but won't think of going up to give them a bath or help them change for bed. Most men coming into a family would see that as the children's parents' or grandparents' roles.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this at all.

I would definitely not be comfortable with it and I am a person who hates all the paranoia about paedophiles lurking everywhere and I hate it when men are suspected of ill-intent for no reason.

Thehn again if the man is trusted to be putting them to bed when he is babysitting I suppose there's no difference if the parents are here.

I just find it odd that he would be upstairs with them when their own parents are present downstairs.

Trust your instincts. At the very least use it as an opportunity for the family to talk about the wider issues about 'personal boundaries' and that if something feels bad, they can say no.

I used to work with a charity that taught kids about things like 'good touch' and 'bad touch'. I am very paranoid about abuse and am already sowing the seeds with DD who is 2(in a good way) that she 'owns' her body. If she doesn't want to hug grandma, or uncle or even me, that is ok and she is able to say no. She knows that she tells me if something upsets her and she knows that I deal with it.

I think the key thing is that a) there are no undue risks taking place (without getting hysterical with new family members) and that would mean no unsupervised bathtimes etc. and perhaps most importantly b) the children know that they can say no to adults and that if they feel uncomfortable they are to tell their parents,who will act on it. Its so important that children trust that they can talk to their parents and that they will listen and act on it.

This means that you can tackle it without pointing the finger at a particular person. Perhaps you can get some things from the internet about how to have these discussions, so it can be raised without reference to this person.

But please don't ignore your instincts. As a child, I may have hinted many times to adults and desperately wished someone would pick up on it and do something.

Just checked and NSPCC has a reading list of books entitled things like 'your body belongs to you' which raises good touch / bad touch in a gentle way.

I would be very very concerned.

Please do something.

I agree with MsGee, I've taught my dc's that they don't have to do anything they don't feel comfortable with physically. The classic is the family member who demands a kiss from a child, of course it's usually very innocent but I say to the dc's that they don't have to if they don't want to. Older family members can be affronted, but I've explained why and the usually agree wholeheartedly.

Your instinct is there for a reason, don't give him any opportunities to be alone with the children.

If you or your ds are worried, next time it happens, rather than the father going up following the chap, so giving him a reason to turn around again, could you wait for a few minutes and then go up - fairly quietly - and see what was happening?

You can always go up quietly because you can say you didn't want to disturb anyone if they were already asleep , likewise make sure that a special toy or book to read at bedtime or something has been left downstairs so you can just be all jolly and say 'look what I've just found downstairs, I know you don't like to go to sleep without it and I want my goodnight cuddle (or whatever) so I thought that I would come and help singleman.'

That way, he won't feel that he has to go downstairs if he is perfectly innocent and just being nice if helping out but you will get a chance to watch if anything seems suspicious.

I know if you think that he is grooming them then this could be construed as putting them in the way of danger but if others are confident that he is ok, then I think the only way to know is to see how he behaves when no other adults are there.

Failing that - any way that a webcam could accidently be left on or a voice recorder to record what's going on so you can look at it later?

shame we have to live in such a suspicious world, he could well be a nice man that has seen his sis or friends struggle with putting kids to bed every night and to do it once in a while is fun and gives the parents a night off so to speak. But he might not be and your son would never forgive himself if he hurt the children so much better to make sure for himself.

Thank you very much for all your observations and advice. I am worried and will keep a very close eye.

It is a horrible thing to have a feelig on though.
I wwould just say to him that the dcs are getting too wound up at bathtime with him too many people around and they need to keep it quiet so to get them to sleep. See his reaction then