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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can you help me to help my sister? Looong...

12 replies

mysecretidentity · 12/10/2010 11:55

Can anyone help me to help my sister? I?ve changed my name because I really don?t want to be outed on this one.

I have two sisters, one is very unhappy and I really want to help her, but I also find her very exasperating. She is very pretty and stylish and has a good job that she enjoys. She is single and would like not to be. She possibly has some health issues and does not look after herself very well. When she was at uni she was diagnosed with depression for a time and was on medication although she now says she doesn?t believe she was depressed.

She has times (often) when she is extremely unhappy about something like work, and she cannot seem to snap out of it or talk about anything else. She phones up and is so down and miserable, and I will try to cheer her up or give her advice but it doesn?t change anything. She has been in an on/off relationship over the past few months (now seems to be over) and more than once she has come to my house and just sat on the couch crying, not joining in with anything or helping, because of stuff going on with this man. Sometimes she doesn?t tell me what is going on but is just thoroughly miserable the whole time she is here. Then I hear from other sis (who sees her much more) that the man is back on the scene.

I have told her that it?s not ok to some over and mope about all day and it makes DH uncomfortable, and she has to make an effort. She doesn?t think there is anything wrong or even unusual with the way she behaves although she agreed with me when I said I was really worried about how she would cope if something really bad happened in her life.

Other sister and I get on very well and have interests in common, I think sis is a bit jealous of this even though other sis spends far more time with her than me. She has accused us of ?leaving her out? at a family party. She seems to be very passive and consider herself to be very unlucky in life. She doesn?t like to take responsibility (for example has had more than one pregnancy scare because she didn?t want to go and get morning after pill- other sis told me this). I have tried to advise her about ways she can make herself happier but she does not take advice.

Now it has got to the stage where I almost dread her coming over because she will be such a misery and no fun. Sometimes I don?t answer the phone to her because I can?t bear an hour of whingeing. I don?t want to feel like his because she can be really funny and a joy to spend time with and I love her dearly. I am not the only one who feels this way, at least three other family members find her very difficult. I just want her to be happy. If she was trying to help herself but struggled sometimes I would really try to help her, but she is just demanding of sympathy and help and doesn?t try. I don?t know if I?m doing her any favours by sympathising or whether I should tell her to pull herself together.

So? am I a terrible uncaring sister? What can I do?

Any advice gratefully received. Thanks if you have read this far. There is much more to tell but I?m not going to write a novel!

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 12/10/2010 12:02

it sounds like your sister has taken on the role of scapegoat to allow the rest of the family to function, it is quite common in dysfunctional families!

What I would be doing if I was you is looking back to work out what the family scripts and poblems are and work through that, rather than focus on someoen who is ill and as part of their illness they are unable to help themselves, would you moan about a cancer vicim for not ridding the cancer from their body? The same is said for depression, the symptoms make it hard to help yourself. Your sister is reaching out for her family to help her, and from what I understand about such things, it is normally the family that is the cause of the depression in the first place.

I wish you all well x It is not an easy path and not something everyone wants to face or accept x

Mummiehunnie · 12/10/2010 12:15

I have just done a bit of sticking and pasting from a usefull site for you, I hope that it helps you to understand your family bbetter x

SYMPTOMS OF ADULTS FROM DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILIES

  1. Adults from dysfunctional families guess at what normal behavior is.
  2. Adults from dysfunctional families have difficulty following a project through from
beginning to end.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
They lie out of self preservation and usually about their feelings.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families judge themselves without mercy. Children in
alcoholic/abusive families develop a fear of making mistakes or being ?invisible." They walk on eggs in fear of results of doing something wrong.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families have difficult having fun. They have difficulty
relaxing because of the hyper-vigilance of ?being safe.? Sometimes they are control of entertainment activities.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families take themselves very seriously. They tend to be
overly sensitive because of brain structural changes (cingulate gyrus and amygdale) from the trauma.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families have difficulty with intimate relationships. Because of
frequently emotionally destructive enmeshments in the alcoholic family, they develop ?roles? that furthers the enmeshment and loss of self. The roles of ?hero,? ?scapegoat,? ?lost child,? or ?clown? creates an image to maintain. Thus there is loss of being one?s real self. They fear getting close to others for fear of abandonment.
  1. Adults from dysfunctional families overreact to changes which they have not control.
  2. Adults from dysfunctional families constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10: Adults from dysfunctional families usually feel that they are different from other people. Terminal uniqueness is the disease were one feels that ?certainly no one is going to understand my behavior or problems. 11. Adults from dysfunctional families are super responsible or super irresponsible and sometimes both. They become hyper vigilant in response to their chaotic environment, again believing that their actions determine the behaviors of others. Children, who have an inordinate sense of self, feel that they are responsible for what goes on around them. Sometimes they give up an responsibility because nothing they do will ever be good enough. They often develop 2 patterns in early childhood of trying to gain self-esteem from the outside world, seeking applause in place of love (overachievement), sometimes giving up and isolating, getting ill, beginning their own substance abuse patterns or "dropping out" (underachievement). 12. Adults from dysfunctional families are extremely loyal even in the face of evidence that loyalty is undeserved. 13. Adults from dysfunctional families are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsivity leads to confusion, self-hatred, and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess. Because of the turmoil and unpredictability in their early lives and subsequent survival roles developed, they frequently find themselves more comfortable with chaos than with quiet times. Keeping the chaos going or involving themselves in professions where turmoil exists, frequently staves off unresolved grief of the past. 14. Adults from dysfunctional families develop patterns of placation, seek approval, or isolate when faced with conflict because of fears of destructive anger or threat of violence experienced in childhood and also because of fear of their own unexpressed rage. 15. Adults from dysfunctional families often grew up in family systems that were unpredictable and unresponsive to the needs of children. Children grew up trusting themselves more than others in terms of self-care. Sometimes addictive behavior results from this ?self-trust? and ?self-care.? 16. Adults from dysfunctional families often grow up with a sense of total helplessness or a total sense of togetherness. Frequently these children gain control in their lives by believing that they cause the responses and behaviors of others. They may feel the victims feelings and try to rescue one parent from the other. This creates both a sense of helplessness as well as an inordinate sense of control over their environment. Example: ?It?s my fault that mom and dad drink. If I was only better..." 17. Adults from dysfunctional families develop the attitude early in life that I have no needs; I can do it myself, thank you. When needs are repeatedly not met or parents "aren?t there" emotionally or physically, children learn to stop needing and in fact fear times of normal dependency. 18. Adults from dysfunctional families need to be in control. Fearing normal feelings leads to compulsive needs to control and live life as Sharon Wegsheider-Cruse states, "in a constant rehearsal for living.? 19. Adults from dysfunctional families have difficulty hearing the positives. Because of poor self images developed in childhood, either discount positive feedback from others, feel a sense of distrust for those complimenting them, or feel a deep feeling of pain or loss upon hearing positive things about themselves. 3 20. Adults from dysfunctional families living in a black and white world. It is as if the addiction kills all the grey cells in the brain, leaving on the black and white. Rigidity and black and white thinking is learned from their parents. 21. Adults from dysfunctional families have poor self images and struggle with self worth 22. Adults from dysfunctional families have compulsive behaviors and addiction. Often in attempts to continue delayed grief and pain from the past, they compulsively work, spend money, eat, exercise, sex, gamble, become addicted to relationships, or behave in other compulsive ways. Sadly, many adult children begin their own patterns of compulsive drinking or drug use. 23. Adults from dysfunctional families have a compulsive need to be right. Life is thought in terms of ?right? and ?wrong.? Often the need to be always correct, appropriate, and "right" replaces an original desire to be loved. 24. Adults from dysfunctional families suffer from denial. It used to be thought that only the alcoholic was in denial. What is realized today is that all members of the alcoholic family suffer from denial. Denial is about unawareness. While being ?unaware? protects them from the pain, it also keep the dysfunction going. 25. Adults from dysfunctional families have a fear of feeling. Expressing feelings or allowing feelings often was not safe or comfortable in an alcoholic's family. Children often were only allowed particular feelings ??happy,? ?fine,? etc. If other feelings are expressed, they risked abandonment or angry outbursts from parents. Because they learned to numb out feelings in early childhood, they have lost the ability to feel or express emotion. Frequently good feelings, such as excitement, joy and happiness are sacrificed as well as feelings of anger or sadness. Some can cry but never allow feelings of anger, others can allow anger but never risk tears. 26. Adults from dysfunctional families have frequent periods of depression. EPRESSION. Anger that is repressed can make us depressed and frequently all feelings of anger are turned against the child inside. Some show signs of depression in early childhood, difficulty sleeping, over or under-eating, nightmares, shoplifting, sleepwalking, difficulty in school, etc. and have chemical depression as well as delayed grief. 27. Adults from dysfunctional families have a fear of being their real self. If a person is like, they feel that "I?m fooling YOU," because children from dysfunctional families early on learn to please and relate to the world with acceptable images rather than true selves. There tends to be a felt discrepancy between what is felt inside and what is shown outside, thus leading to a belief that "if others really knew me, they wouldn?t like me.? 28. Adults from dysfunctional families are hypersensitive to the needs of others. Survival in a dysfunctional family frequently meant being constantly aware of the most minor shifts in moods of adults leading the child to be far more aware of what others were doing and feeling than what was being felt inside. 4 29. Adults from dysfunctional families have repetitive relationship patterns in their adult lives. Internal beliefs and filters lead them to pick spouses and friends that replicate the childhood interactions with parents. They frequently they find themselves recreating the painful experiences of their childhood. Why? They are drawn to what is familiar and to what is known. There is a sense of need to overcoming, ?trying to get my father to not drink or to love me.? So, they pick an alcoholic to marry. Children from healthy families work out childhood traumas in the playroom while children from dysfunctional families find themselves working out painful traumas of the past in real life. 30. Adults from dysfunctional families have an inability to relax, let go and have fun. While other children were busy learning to relate, compete, play and develop social skills, children of dysfunctional families were learning the tough lessons of survival. Living becomes more difficult than continued survival and playing or having fun becomes terrifyingly stressful. The child inside is terrified still of making a mistake or doing it wrong. Letting go means being out of control. After you reading this list, you might feel depressed because you identify with some of these symptoms. The point is not to label yourself and become a victim, but to identify and to work toward healing from the trait. As the trait is soften, transformed and even removed, one gains freedom.
newnamethistime · 12/10/2010 12:16

She is almost definitely depressed.
Much of what you have described about her(almost in terms of her personality which is wrong)are classic symptoms of depression.
You should absolutely not tell her to pull herself together. She needs help and support.
There are many many many websites that go through strategies for helping a depressed person. Focus on getting her to a gp/counselling.
Please do not tell her things like 'it's not so bad', 'others are worse off' 'things are hard for everyone' etc. this will make her feel worse as it will confirm to her that she is indeed useless.

Please help her to get help.

newnamethistime · 12/10/2010 12:20

have a look here for ways to help
www.leanonme.net/ie/about-depression/what-can-you-do-to-help

cestlavielife · 12/10/2010 12:25

she is depressed.
she needs help.
you could make sure she gets to GP, offer to go with ehr to an appt, find out info on support gropups etc for her pass them on. see if you can persuade her to t ake aup a sport or club. suggest she asks GP for a n "exercise prescription" to local gym.

youc an enoucrage but she is an adult. oif she doesnt want to ask for help she will be stuck
for your times with her - set the boundaries.

eg allow set times where you see her for couple hours then finish the visit.

if things are going well and she happy - you can extend the visit.

if she moping and miserable - then limit your time with her. just make it clear when she can come and for how long.

if she says "but i dont want to go now" then tell her - you can stay if you help with dinner/play with the dc/ do xxxx or yyy. if not then bye and see you next week. "

she may be affronted -0 but it's her problem - you given her some of your time.

it's hard work being around a depressed person - but you want to help.

so do that in small doses - set your boundaries - so you dont burn out.

Iwishiwasalive · 12/10/2010 12:26

Aren't about 80% of families dysfunctional??

I agree with newnamethistime, try to get her to counselling. Help her to help herself.

I used to think that people with depression were just self-centred and selfish but now I know that sometimes things and thoughts can spiral out of control and it can be too hard to pull ourselves back up without help.

Best of luck

Mummiehunnie · 12/10/2010 12:28

I think setting boundries is a great idea, i think talking to a depressed person as if you are their adult and they are the child, is not helpfull x

Mummiehunnie · 12/10/2010 12:29

twishiwasalive, that stat would account for 1 in 3 being depressed!

mysecretidentity · 12/10/2010 12:32

Thanks for replies. I don't believe we are a dysfunctional family. I have read the list but it doesn't seem to fit. We all grew up with the same emotional support and we all have a good relationship with our parents.

I have talked with her about depression. She gets almost angry with me for worrying about her and insists she is well. She says that it is just the way she is, that she can't hide her feelings and that is perfectly normal.

I have encouraged her to get counselling and other sis has made an appointment for her but she didn't go. I really noticed what that site said about exercise. We did a run together last year and I have tried to encourage her to keep this up but she has not. We don't live close enough for me to go with her. I guess I will just keep trying.

OP posts:
newnamethistime · 12/10/2010 12:44

don't try to figure out why she is depressed. No 2 children in a family have exactly the same experience. There may be underlying genetic reason for why she is prone to depression (combined with life experience).
Depression cannot be 'fixed' by someone else.

Mummiehunni - about 1 in 5 people experience depression at some stage in their lives - perhaps the figures are not that far out given the high level of undiagnosed depression?

livinginazoo · 12/10/2010 15:18

Depressed people are most definately not self-centred and selfish, any more than a person with cancer is. It is a horrible illness. Just because you can not see a physical effect of the illness, does not mean it is not as serious and devastating.

I agree that no 2 people in a family have the same experience, parents do not treat their children exactly the same and personality and experiences during childhood/early adulthood can be very different.

If she is depressed she needs professional treatment, otherwise it will not go away, particularly since this seems to have been recurring. She needs to see her GP, consider antidepressants and get counselling.

From experience, depressed people do not take kindly to people telling them to cheer up or do x to be happy. tbh they don't have to 'motivation' to do x anyway, they are very ill remember. But perhaps she could get some books about the illness to read. There are a lot of websites out there on how to support a depressed person, but the main thing you can do is be your normal self around her and gently encourage her to talk to you and seek help? Although that is something she can not be coerced into... her grey dark world is real to her and she won't realise that an alternative with colours exists. Often people will not ask for help until they reach rock bottom.

livinginazoo · 12/10/2010 15:21

And I definately second boundaries and ensuring you don't slip into an adult-child relationship with her. She is ill (we assume here) but not incompetent to make her own decisions!

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