DH, depression and getting divorced

[FireAndWater]

I really need some outside point of view on this.
DH and I have been having problems for a very long time. I finally told him I had enough. There is no intimacy left in our relationship (I'm not just talking about sex here) and we have been/are hurting each other. No one is happy.
DH agreed with all these statements but 'But I still love you' was his final comment.
I talked to him about it again a few days ago. He then told me he thinks he is depressed, doesn't have any enjoyment in life, doesn't know where he is going and feels like he has wasted the last few years of his life.
I believe that he still hasn't adjusted to being a dad. That he resent me/his children for wanting him to join in doing things together when he would rather be spending time on his own with his hobbies (2 of them, both of them involve being away for the whole day sometimes from 6.00am not coming back until it's 8.00pm).
I suggested this might be one of his issues and he agreed.
I now have 2 problems and I don't know what to do/think.
The first is that, after our first conversation, his whole attitude changed. From stonewalling ie, not talking to me apart for unvoidable day to day stuff, he started to talk again. From being very angry (repressed anger but I could still very much feel it), he became all calm and sweet. Sneaky hurtful comments disappeared. Fantastic should I say. But how is that possible if the reason for his behaviour was the depression? I've had depression myself (PND, AND and just plain depression before). There is no way I would have been to change so radically in one night. So is it possible to change your behavoiur like this even if it's due to depression or is the depresion just an excuse ? (Please note , I DO think he is depressed, I'm just wandering if his attitude before was really down to that or just due to plain selfishness)
The second problem is that I am not in love any more. I have been hurt too much and I am not sure I am willing to put the effort necessary to put things back on track (assuming he is willing to). But saying that his awfull behaviour was due to illness makes me very guilty to think about pushing for a divorce that he is ready to accept (yet?). So I am not sure why direction to go.

Sorry it's long so thank you if you have read it all! Any insight on that would be great!

Sorry, I meant 'a divorce he is NOT ready to accept (yet?)'

Hmm. In my experience I think it is possible to make a short-term effort to change your behaviour when you are depressed - but it's not possible to keep it up. Has he tried an online depression questionnaire? He does need to see his doctor. Depression doesn't rule out other problems as well - but I do think it exacerbates the desire to isolate, makes one less tolerant, moody, angry - and generally difficult to live with. I would focus on treating the depression first - maybe make it a condition of continuing in the marriage that he sees his doctor - then see how things go. You've stuck it out this long, why not wait now until the New Year before making any long-term decisions?

We've looked together at the different ways of 'treating' depression incl going to see GP, counselling, acupuncture, St john worth etc... He is very relunctant to go and see his GP )he is the sort of guy who is going to the GP once every 10 or 15 years. Doesn't like the idea of counselling as he would need to talk and tell him/her how he feels... It has been a week now and he has done nothing.

His idea to deal with it is for us to find things to do together. That's forgetting that we now have very little in common. Since our first dc was born 7 years ago, I have changed both in my behaviour and in my interest. he hasn't.

Fire, he has to go to the doctor. Doing things together isn't going to change the imbalance in his brain chemistry and his lack of serotonin! One of the HUGE problems with depression is getting the depressed person to seek help. But in your DH's case I think you have to insist on it. I would make the GP appt for him and tell him that you need him to go and it's non-negotiable.

The idea has crossed my mind.
I have had hesitation about it because we are in a situation where whenever there is an issue, I have to push and push and push, he is getting angry/upset until something gives in and he is then happy about it. I think he really needs to take charge of himself as otherwise he will not get better and I' not sure that by doing things for him (like making go to see the GP or a counseller for example) will do any good.

The other thing is that it has a very big impact on the dcs. He is constantly having a go at them, esp dc1. In the last few weeks, dc1 has been telling me :

• I don't you to go. I don't like being with daddy. When I cry, you are coming to help me. With daddy, it's like he is telling me I am an idiot.
• I prefer you than daddy.

.

Fire, I don't agree that you should not make the GP appt. If he is depressed he will find it very hard to ask for help and/or make plans to get help.
Getting him to the GP by whatever means possible should be the first priority, even if you have to drive him there...
There is a book called 'Depression Fallout' by Anne Sheffield that I think you would find very helpful. It is a guide to living with a depressed partner. She has a whole chapter called, 'Overcoming Denial' which is about the difficulty of getting the depressed person to seek help. She is very good on the impact of living with a depressed person. It is a US book but I think you could get it on amazon.

Ok, I've just checked and 'Depression Fallout' is available on amazon.co.uk.

But if you want to read reviews and get more info, look it up on amazon.com

I have a copy and I found it really helpful.

"putting them down, threatening "-

that is not depression. that is nasty behaviour.

i think he has turned nice because he realises you might be serious...but wait and see how long it lasts.

if he thinks he is depressed-he needs to get help. get him to the GP. go the appt with him...but he needs to be the one asking for and willing to accept help - therpay, meds whatever

but the "he resent me/his children for wanting him to join in doing things together when he would rather be spending time on his own with his hobbies" - that's not depression is it?

it's about him not wanting to grow up and be a parent....

counselling for me helped me to see the lines between depression and selfishness/controlling behaviour in my now ex...

C'est - not wanting to socialise and preferring to isolate is an absolutely classic symptom of depression as is moodiness and anger.

When you say 'he needs to be the one asking' for help that simply shows a misunderstanding of the dynamic of depression.

Maybe he is depressed, maybe he is nasty person. The point is to get him into a treatment programme so the OP will know for sure.

Depression is a mental illness and needs to be treated.

yes depression is an illness. and it needs to be treated.

but - 'he needs to be the one asking' for help " because he is an adult. and a GP won't treat an adult unless the adult wants the treatment.

i went many times to my GP (same GP as my ex's) asking them to help him - to help his depression - the answer came back every time: "we cannot help him unless he asks us for help"

i know what you mean - but the OP cannot get him help - she can take him to GP, she can sit in the appointment, she can march him to the pharmacy for his prescription - as i did - but she cannot - just as i could not - make him take drugs or do therapy.... unless he is bad enough to be sectioned which he clearly is not.

i am not convinced that anger is a symptom of depression - or can be excused by depression . tho it may go alongside depression. it does fall to the OP to try and set the boundaries - "i understand you depressed but this behaviour and that behaviour is unacceptable" .

anger is anger. of course - it may be tied up with a period of depression.

but when my ex has been "on the floor" depressed - he has been very introverted/inward looking. not threatening or angry.

anger at himself/me/our dcs - and severe anxiety - to me that has been something else. on the descent into cannot-get- out-of-bed depression or the ascent into more manic state.... he got a diagnosis at one point of "depression with anxiety disorder" - the outwards anger/anxiety were seen as something co-morbid...

and of course everyone is different.

let's say he has underlying depression. sure it needs treating.
but even with that - he has shown he can be nice and can change his behaviour from being angry to being nice.

has he stopped being depressed?
no - because he continues to isolate himself.

so - logic says - the anger may not be directly a symptom of his depression - but may be something he can control... but yes -g et him to get help for his depression/anger issues - that is the starting point

Thank you for your input.
nomedoit and cestlavielife, both of you have been expressing the two sides of my thinking and I am not sure which one I believe the most.

I've had a look at the book and it looks most appropriate. I've ordered it so I'll see what comes out of it.

I have given him the tel number for the GP and I am waiting to see if he is making the appointment on his own accord. If not, then I will push or do it myself.

I've also started to talk to him about the way he relate to the dcs. I've tried many times before but he just blanked me. So had another go and at least he read the couple of pages from 'How to talk' explaining how it feels for the children to be spoken like this. Apparently, he can now see how 'it could be unconfortable' for the dcs.

I think I agree with cestlavie inasmuch that even when I was depressed, I've never put my children down. I have had a much shorter fuse though. So somehow I think there is some sort of mixture between not handling his relationship with his dcs appropriately and being depressed (which might have made it more difficlut for him to see it/change his behaviour??).

My dad suffered from depression throughout my childhood - or some form of depressive illness, it had lots of different diagnoses over the years - and I would definitely say anger can be a symptom of depression.

What I came on the thread to say, though, is that if you do decide to go ahead with the split, I don't think you would have anything to feel guilty about. It is truly horrible living with someone who is long-term depressed and shows symptoms like your husband's. Being a child and having to walk on egg-shells, assess someone's moods as soon as they walk into the room so you don't do anything upsetting, and listen to anger and criticism from your parent takes a long time to get over as an adult.

If you think your husband can get better and change and decide to stick with it, brilliant - that's your decision. But please don't feel guilty if you make the other choice.

'assess someone's moods as soon as they walk into the room'.... dc1 is so good at that :(:(

And I spend my time saying that if I am upset/grumpy, it is my problem, not his. And that I, alone, can change things, not him. I have been very unconfortable about his excellent 'reading skills' and awareness. You've just explained why it felt so wrong :(

Sorry, FireAndWater, that was meant to be helpful not painful. FWIW, I don't think these things are irreversible and only you know what the situation is with your DH. My dad was a pretty extreme case (and you know what? We get on pretty well these days).

I just wanted to say that you shouldn't feel guilty, whatever decision you make.

Don't worry, it is helpful!
It's just that there has been a lot of things going on in these last few years that have knocked me down completely. now that I feel much more 'solid' and strong, I am trying to understand what are all the things that make me so unconfortable. This is one one of them.