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Original poster

Is this controlling?

28 replies

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 15:32

OK I have name changed for this as the story is recognisable and I don't want my usual MN name to be outed.
My younger sister has been going out with a guy for about 2 years. They are both mid twenties and live together. The relationship is serious and I am expecting that they will get engaged in the next 6 months or so. There are no children.
Her boyfriend is a very affable, friendly lad. He is confident and very able to offer his opinions often interrupting and talking over people. My sister is quieter and more reserved than him. He has always appeared to me to be mad about my sister. In general my sister feels the relationship is good and they get on brilliantly, talk about everything etc.
There is one issue and it is making me uneasy as I am not sure if it is an indicator of things to come. He does not like her going out and drinking. He has no issue with her going out with her friends and having a couple of drinks but he has told her that if she goes out and gets pissed ever again without him being there he will break up with her.
She is by no way a messy drunk. She never does anything untoward and can always get herself home. She does not go out that much without him and when she does she rarely gets pissed (maybe a couple of times a year). He rings her when she is out or just after she gets back (she will usually stay at my folks after a night out) and he will decide form her voice if she is drunk or not. If she is there is an almighty row (lasting days) and after the latest incident he has issued this ultimatum.
My sister I think is tempted to accommadate his demands, while I feel this is a dangerous precedent. While there is nothing wrong in the aspiration never to get drunk again I believe it should come from her and not because he is threatening her. He is very black and white and qiute forceful in his opinions so I think she finds it hard to discuss things with him as he tends to talk her down. She says she feels like she is on tenterhooks now and its only a matter of time before she slips up.
So what do you think? Controlling or legitmate deal breaker from his pov?

OP posts:

loopyloops · 04/10/2010 15:36

Controlling IMO.

JiggeryPopery · 04/10/2010 15:37

Rings alarm bells for me.

I would have to say (if I were her) I am a grown woman and I will judge when I have had enough to drink; I am in charge of when I drink and how much; the point at which my drinking prevents me functioning is the point at which you get a say. Till then, I'm not a child and I won't be told what to do.

And I expect he would then leave in a huff. And possibly not come back.

But I would be very put off by this, and it absolutely wouldn't pick up the phone when he calls after a night out etc.

I suspect he has had ishoos in the past with a drinking girlfriend.

Is he allowed to go out and get drunk?

scurryfunge · 04/10/2010 15:38

There may be alcoholism in his family and he is afraid because of this.

Ultimately it is down to her.

Does he control her in other ways?

missedith01 · 04/10/2010 15:40

Oh my word, I wouldn't put up with that, especially the phonecall afterwards. He's entitled to his opinions regarding drink and your sister is entitled to be treated as an adult who can make her own decisions and deal with the consequences. Avoid.

Original poster

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 15:44

Jiggery - Yes you are right he has had issues with a girlfriend before who cheated on hom when she got pissed. However I feel that my sister really shoudln't shoulder the responsibility for that girlfriends actions. SHE has never given him any reason to doubt her.

Scuury - I don't know about his family, but since we are Irish its probably a safe bet there is an alcholic somewhere in his family! She assures me that this is the only issue. He his not controlling in other aspects. I have no reaosn to doubt her however I suspect that it just may be that they just haven't stumbled across anything else that he feels as strongly about..yet. I feel that once kids coem on the scene that may happen.

OP posts:

chippy47 · 04/10/2010 15:46

Insecurity/issues with alcohol?
Neither really merit the behaviour.

JiggeryPopery · 04/10/2010 15:50

Oh dear. So he's punishing her for his last girlfriend's cheating?

That's not good.

It would be a dealbreaker for me to be carrying another woman's baggage.

maybe if he weren't so controlling the previous gf woulnd't have cvheated.....?

mayorquimby · 04/10/2010 15:51

sounds controlling but he seems fairly forthright about it so it really is ultimately up to your sister on how she responds.
He's been upfront about it and said it's a deal-breaker for him. The way in which he goes about seems a bit suspect (constant calling etc. and hanging it over her head, but with only this info impossible to know)
Your sister for her part now has to decide if it's something she finds acceptable in a relationship. She might find being dictated to in such a manner to be a deal breaker for herself.
Not much help I know but with limited info it's hard to say.
Parts sound controlling but at the same time it is somewhat counter-balanced by him being upfront about what he doesn't find acceptable in a relationship and it's hard to fault someone on that front as it's now in your sisters power to make an informed decision.

ItsGraceAgain · 04/10/2010 15:52

It's this: He rings her when she is out or just after she gets back (she will usually stay at my folks after a night out) and he will decide from her voice if she is drunk or not. If she is there is an almighty row.

It's just wrong. No matter what reasons he may have for worrying about alcohol, causing a stink because of what he believes about her is controlling in quite a scary way. It suggests he'll feel free to "decide" she's been unfaithful, flirting with the checkout guy, etc, once he feels she's his. And then to punish her.

Must be very hard for your sister :( How does he respond if she ignores his call?

BertieBotts · 04/10/2010 15:59

MayorQuimby, what you say is true, but only if this is the only issue he is so controlling about, which is fairly unlikely when the behaviour is at this level.

I don't know what you could do, OP, but I really hope they don't get engaged or have children together :( Maybe put a link about early warning signs in relationships on facebook etc? Somewhere where she won't think "OMG, how dare you suggest my boyfriend is controlling!" but might still read it.

buttonmoon78 · 04/10/2010 16:00

My DH is a bit of a control freak but he is not controlling in this way. If I said I'd had 4 drinks, he'd accept I'd had 4 drinks. Mind you, I can't think of a reason why he'd be questioning how many I'd had.

It does sound a bit more than liking to be in control IYSWIM? More than that I can't say - I don't know how I would react if I were in your shoes.

Original poster

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 16:01

Grace - thats exactly what I am worried about. that this may be a softening up process and that it may escalate when he realises that his threat worked. I am not sure what would happen if she ignored the calls. As I said she doesn't do it that often so I am not sure if she ever has not spoken to him after a night out.
Our other sister did tell me a story of she was with her (either on a night out or the morning after a night she was 'judged' pissed can't remember which) and he sent her loads of texts giving out to her. Eventually my other sister told her to stop responding but he still sent through nearly a dozen more after that.

OP posts:

buttonmoon78 · 04/10/2010 16:04

Yikes. That adds a new perspective. He sounds nastier now. If my DH is cross with me I expect one text telling me he's cross then another within an hour telling me he's sorry for being cross. That's without exception. Even if he's got a genuine reason for being cross...

I'm not liking the sound of this.

Original poster

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 16:04

Bertie - My sister has discussed openly with me (and him) about whether this is controlling behaviour. She is aware that it could be but is reluctant to end a relationship over it when she feels there is so much good about it. She assures me this is the only issue he is controlling over. My worry is that there should be a 'so far' at the end of that sentence.

OP posts:

mayorquimby · 04/10/2010 16:06

"MayorQuimby, what you say is true, but only if this is the only issue he is so controlling about, which is fairly unlikely when the behaviour is at this level."

Yep and at the moment that's what the sister says, so for all our suspicions we have to take this as true. Anything else is pure conjecture.
However as I said earlier his demeanour seems out of synch with someone who truely had this as a deal-breaker with the constant calling and hanging it over her head as a punishment/threat as someone said earlier.
It may move on to greater things, it may not but with the info provided I'd have reservations but I wouldn't be ready to tar and feather the guy yet.
Friends of mine are with partners who have various deal-breakers which I would never be able to live with. But it doesn't make them controlling in my view, just that they have different expectations etc. And since ultimately you are the one who has to be in the relationship I don't really see any deal-breaker as being unreasonable once someone is up front about it.

JiggeryPopery · 04/10/2010 16:37

The thing about controlling behaviour is it's like weeds - it spreads until the whole place is a mess of tangled shite.

No one starts of controlling and calms down after a while. It's a crappy bit of behaviour that won't go away on its own - it needs addressing.

ChippingIn · 04/10/2010 16:46

How totally sure are you that she hasn't ever given him reason to worry what she might do when she's drunk? Are you totally sure it's just baggage from a previous gf?

Is there any chance someone has seen her snogging some bloke while she was very drunk?

If you/she is sure, then I think she should tell him that it's over unless he gets councelling for his attitude to her.

If she has given him reason to worry - then there's no reason that it will 'spread' to other areas of their life together?

Original poster

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 16:48

Well, I can't be totally sure that he hasn't seen behaviour that HE THOUGHT was inapproproate/ flirting. Who knows what he thinks. But I am absoloutly positive that she has never cheated on him or snogged anyone else.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lolalocket · 04/10/2010 16:52

I should also have mentioned that he has had simmiliar serious fallings out with his younger sister over the same issues. Going out and getting drunk. So it might not neccessarily be a trust issue mre something to do with his attitude to women and drink.

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 04/10/2010 16:55

Well, that does change things a bit.

I wonder if that was before the 'drunk cheating ex' or after?

If it was before I would assume he's seen some family behaviour he didn't like.

If it's after, I would be a bit worried that he's still hung up on the ex, convinced it would have all been OK if it wasn't for the 'demon drink'... he seems to be blaming 'the drink' and not the girl (the ex). It's not healthy - but I'm not sure it's 'controlling' (in the broader sense) either :(

WriterofDreams · 04/10/2010 17:35

I think her bf has the right to express his views on the matter and to say that he would really prefer her not to get drunk, but the way he's handling it is way out of line IMO.

If she had got drunk (not the other gf) and kissed a guy I could understand the ultimatum but his complete lack of trust in her is totally unjustified and really disrespectful.

He's basically saying that he has to control her behaviour because he doesn't think she can do it herself. And the fact that she is so worried about "slipping up" is quite sad really. Her bf is not her judge or her father, and she shouldn't have to worry about somehow breaking his rules. I know you reckon it's a once-off but I would think it's symptomatic of his overall opinion of her. I would never ever hold something like this over my DH's head because I have too much respect for him and I'd hate for him to worry, especially when he's never done anything wrong. If he doesn't feel that way about your sister then the relationship isn't as good as it should be. She should try to have a direct talk to him about it and find out exactly what is going on. I would really be worried that, as other posters have said, he could be paving the way to controlling other behaviour of hers in the future.

Jux · 04/10/2010 17:42

Controlling.

Next thing will be when she gets home - not drunk - "oh I was so worried about you, you're so much later than I thought you'd be" and she'll find it not worth going out without him, as she gets so much hassle when she gets home.

Then it'll be "I'm not letting my pg wife go to that place".

Then it'll be "You can't do that, what about the baby, how are you going to manage in the morning, I can't do it for you I'm terribly important". And so on.

undercovamutha · 04/10/2010 17:48

When I first read this, I thought it sounded a bit like my DSis's marriage. She is very sympathetic to BIL's every whim, and spends a lot of time worrying what he thinks about things. However this is not because she is scared of him, but because she is naturally eager to please IYSWIM.

However, after reading again, I now think this isn't the same as my DSis's situation at all. Your DSis actually seems a bit scared of her DP, and he seems to be acting in an intimidating way. He does sound controlling IMO.

BertieBotts · 04/10/2010 18:02

WriterofDreams has it spot on. Even if this is the only issue it's the fact it's there in the first place. It doesn't sound as though it's coming from a place of concern, but of insecurity (his).

This is the worst bit though because (I've been there) you (ie the insecure person's partner) make allowances for the insecurity, really you shouldn't, it is not your cross to bear. Of course you want to help out someone who you care about but this isn't helping, it's sacrificing yourself to pacify them. You can't change an insecure person by being there for them more etc. You can't "fix" them or love them better.

Insecure people do not make good partners and although that is sad for them, there are things they can do - therapy, counselling, learning to bring their insecurity down to a manageable level (ie I'm not talking here about having low body image etc but serious insecurity which makes you paranoid about things and manifests in controlling behaviour)

Anniegetyourgun · 05/10/2010 09:14

God yeah - my insecure ex never learned to trust me after 25 years during which I did nothing to give him cause not to trust me. He would get paranoid about what I might do if I got "pissed" (I never drink to excess), though conversely he would encourage me to drink rather more than I wanted to at home.

If I'd realised, the first time he kicked off, that it wasn't normal I would either have shown him the door or stepped on it firmly, instead of wasting years trying to be reassuring and demonstrating my trustworthiness. Because he had what he himself used to jokingly call "a worm in the brain" which would never let him relax and trust me. Or perhaps because he was a controlling arse. I'll never be completely sure which. And it made life bloody uncomfortable, let me tell you. I hardly ever went out for drinks as such (once a month in a good year), but I went to work every day, the shops, occasionally an exercise class... all times I was out of his sight so who knows what I could have been doing? Heaven help me if I was 20 minutes late due to my train being cancelled.

So, with the benefit of hindsight, what would I do if I were the OP's sister? I'd tell him that I had a nice night out with my friends, thank him very much for asking, and if it upsets him that is his problem. If he does leave over such a minor matter he was never hers, as the old saying goes. On the other hand if he genuinely cares about her he will take a long hard look at his own behaviour and decide that having her in his life is worth a few compromises - on his side as well as hers.

When one partner has to make all the changes and do all the forgiving, that's not a relationship, it's a dictatorship.

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