Is it wrong to sleep with a man who's no longer with his wife, but not yet divorced?

[Shitshape]

I've been seeing someone casually whose relationship with his wife is over. He no longer lives with her, neither of them wish to be together and they plan to divorce.

I would never dream of having anything to do with a man in a relationship, married or not. Without really thinking about it, I had assumed that, since this man's relationship with his wife (if not his marriage) is over, that it's OK to be intimate with him.

However, a friend said to me today that, legally-speaking, because he is still married, I should stay away until he is officially divorced, since in the eyes of the law, this could be considered adultery and I could be cited by his wife as grounds for divorce! This seems absurd to me, but this happened to my friend, who started a relationship with a man nearly a year after he and his wife had parted.

Perhaps I'm completely naive - I've never been married, so parting with my ex-partner of 10 years didn't involve all this - but this hadn't occurred to me. I just thought: he's not with her any more, so morally, this is OK.

Is my friend right? Should someone still married (but no longer with their spouse) not get up to anything with anyone else, even if it takes a couple of years to get divorced? Could I be cited as a reason for divorce, even though I did nothing with this man while he was still with his wife? And even if I were to be, is it actually a big deal?

Argh! I thought I was acting with integrity, and now I'm not so sure, and I don't like the feeling.

The issue for me would be to be confident that his relationship is, in fact, over, and there's no chance that he and his wife might be taking a break and eventually get back together. If you are completely sure it's over, I think it's morally fine.

I suppose it might be technically possible for you to be cited in divorce proceedings but that's not really your problem. Why would you care, if the divorce is going to happen anyway?

It all depends on how all 3 of you feel about the situation, as long as he and his wife are on the same terms and both feel their marriage is over, then its over. Life doesn't stop at divorce and lord knows its costly enough to take awhile so if all 3 of you are happy with you two dating, who cares what anyone else thinks?

Good luck to you, you deserve to be happy.

If they both know the marriage is over and/or he has moved out of the house (which pretty clearly signifies that he is breaking up with her) then fine. No one divorces for adultery anymore, it's risky and expensive.

If the relationship is clearly over, I don't see the problem either.

I was actually born when my dad was married to someone else. The relationship had ended & they had both moved on, but they were waiting the 3 years necessary before they could have a no-blame divorce (this is a while ago obviously).

Adultery can be used as evidence of unreasonable behaviour though - not that I'd have thought it necessary as they've already moved apart. And it won't make any difference to any financial settlement as "fault" doesn't ordinarily come into it.

But it is still adultery as the marriage has not yet been dissolved. I don't know whether adultery in these circumstances would "count" for you, nor how it would fit with your own moral code.

And you might like to consider if it is indeed truly over between them. Why have they not instigated their divorce? Would your increasing intimacy hasten a divorce to end the marriage properly? Or might he feel there's no need to hurry?

Any children involved?

Phew. Thanks for posting.

Yes, the relationship is over. She asked him to leave, which he did. He doesn't want to attempt reconciliation/go back with her, and she has suggested nothing along those lines. I feel 100% certain there is no relationship any more. I wouldn't go there if I thought there was.

As for her being happy about me seeing him, I don't want her to know, because I know her (although am not friends as such) and she's always seemed a bit unhinged, so I wouldn't really want her having that information to 'play' with, IYSWIM. But if they're no longer together, surely it's none of her business who he sees? She doesn't have to be 'happy' about it being me/whomever for it to be OK, surely?

Interesting about no one divorcing for adultery any more. I didn't realise that. Why's it costly? Because you have to prove it?

Thanks for posting. Reassuring.

No, it's not wrong

No if sure it's ok- I met now dh before his divorce was finalized

Cross-posted with you, onimolap. That's what my friend was saying, that in a legal sense, it would be considered adultery, because the marriage hasn't been dissolved. I didn't realise this, and as I've suggested, it sits fine with my moral code (or was sitting fine) to get it on with someone whose relationship is categorically over, marriage or no marriage. The marriage isn't necessarily the same as the relationship, IYSWIM.

They haven't instigated their divorce yet because it's still relatively early days (a few months). He's been focusing on the children (yes there are children involved) and his living situation, and has time booked off work within the next few weeks to see a lawyer and begin the legal process.

I don't know if our increasing intimacy will hasten or slow divorce proceedings, TBH. I should add that we're not starting a new relationship as such - just seeing each other every now and then, no strings and very privately, when the children aren't around.

I think I need to chat with him about this though. Thanks for your post.

Thanks proudnglad and Hardandsleazy.

I did with DH, he finally got round to getting divorced a year after we got in a relationship, she had gone off with another man and we were living together.

If by sleeping with him you help them get a divorce sooner then that can't be a bad thing can it?

Morally it's not wrong IMO -- their relationship has clearly ended. Technically it could constitute adultery, but because it was NOT the reason they split up it couldn't realistically be cited in divorce proceedings as the grounds for the divorce.

I'm assuming from the length of time that they are waiting for the 2 year separation period to be up so they can do a "no fault" divorce? If so, I suspect you have nothing to worry about on the wife-freaking-out front.

From a different perspective; as a separated Mum myself, not living with my ex and not yet divorced;
I would be pretty miserable if I thought neither of us could move on and have emotional attachments with someone else in the next few years.
Its not something I have really considered until you raised the topic, but perhaps any perspective partner I may have in the future could feel the way you do.

One more thing though that you DO need to be careful about: if you move in with him, or in any way make it clear that this is your intention, it could affect your DP's financial settlement unfavourably. So I would avoid this if possible.

Hi Shitshape, Yes he is committing adultery with you whilst his marriage still exists. Yes you could be cited as co-respondent. However, the Wife asked him to leave, therefore there was a different reason why the marriage failed. Briefly, there is only one ground for the ending of a marriage : that the marriage has broken down. The evidence of breakdown can be adultery, or unreasonable behaviour or 2 years separation (by agreement) or 5 without. Clearly there must have been some unreasonable behaviour, which is why they split. If you don't want to be cited as co-respondent ( and it is not necessary to name the co-respondent, the petition can merely say" adultery with an unnamed woman") insist he protects you from this and that they divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour. (It doesn't take much for behaviour to be deemed "unreasonable"). He needs specialist legal advice. `It would be unwise to move in with him or pool funds whilst his status is unresolved. Do bear in mind that he will have to pay maintenance for his children and probably have contact with them every other weekend. He may never be able to afford further children or a mortgage. He comes with baggage, are you happy about that?

No your fine.My dp was legally separated,going through as divorce when i met him.both sides had moved on.It does also depend how long they have been separted.my dps was 7months(though i didnt find out for a while)

No plans for moving in! Blimey. But I'm curious to know why my maintenance payment from DS's dad is in any way connected to a new partner of mine. Isn't my ex's maintenance payment for his son, and a parenting responsibility? I honestly didn't know (and can't see how) it could have a connection with any new partner of mine, but if it can, please explain how. (I'm learning lots today!)

Sorry you feel that way, skinnymalinki. I had never thought about this until my friend raised it today. It doesn't sound good to be considered an "adulterer" or cited as a reason for divorce. But if, morally-speaking, the former isn't the case, and the latter's very unlikely, it hasn't put me off at all. So take heart. :)

Baggy, thanks for the detailed advice on grounds for divorce. I think unreasonable behaviour will be cited. How long does it generally take in this scenario? I'm not thinking serious relationship here by the way, so hadn't considered the no-more-children factor (not an issue for me), or financial side. I own my own house, and would never want to co-own with anyone else again, so the affording-a-mortgage issue hadn't crossed my mind either. Interesting to raise this though, and worth me thinking about for if/when I do find a new partner.

Thanks for all the posts.

Is that really true beanlet? I thought now we have no fault divorce, the reason the marriage broke down has no bearing on the eventual financial settlement.

It's silly to divorce on the grounds of the adultery because then the co-respondent (you) is then a party in the case and can delay it and/or fuck it up. It just complicates things.

It does slightly depend if his ex decides to really kick off, and that is dependent on you two being subtle and kind.

Your friend happened to have a bad experience. I suspect your friend has come on a bit strong, it almost never kicks off like that.

I'm 20 months into a separation, and waiting for the 2 year divorce. I'd be a bit sad to know he was with someone else, so tread carefully and please don't rub her nose in it. But don't be over-sensitive to the legal ramifications: I suspect a judge would be given the facts and make a sensible decision.
My advice would be, fine to have a casual relationship, but don't move in or get pregnant til the papers are signed. And actually, be a bit gracious and leave it a few months. Well, I would.

ps please be a little bit wary of assuming someone's ex is 'unhinged'. Divorce and sadness does funny things to people. She's probably just grieving.

Have only read the op but IMHO there is nothing wrong with it and I have been in the same situation for nearly 7 years and had 3'children with him.

Thanks picmaestress. Sound advice. I wouldn't dream of rubbing her nose in it. I actually don't want her, or anyone in the community I live in, to know really, because it's my private life, and also, people love to gossip.

I was pretty 'unhinged' for a while, after my ex and I separated, so I do understand what you mean. However, I know his ex in her own right, not simply through what he has said about her, and I'm not alone in finding her extremely challenging company at times. She's been like this for years.

Not a bad idea to leave things for a few months. I'm going to be chatting with him this week about what exactly we're up to, and how to proceed respectfully and sensitively, if we do at all.

Thanks again.

Just realised that you meant his financial settlement with his wife, beanlet. Doh. Too late for this ...

Hi Shitshape, I am glad for you that their divorce will be on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour. (You are wise to keep your budding relationship secret.) Your man should start the divorce process off first, as whoever puts in the petition first is certainly in the driving seat. Whoever files a petition first,(the petitioner) can delay matters too. Your man can still negotiate matters concerning the children now, they are a separate matter from the divorce, but obviously the actual petition is a sensitive issue. Children are usually no reason for delaying filing a petition.

I note that you own your own house. Beware! You will be a magnet for men without their own home. If a future partner helps you pay the mortgage or and this is subtle, makes improvements to your home, he could later claim an interest ( a share of the equity). If he puts in, for example, a new kitchen or bathroom, beware. He could later claim in court that the increased value of your home is due to him, and he wants monetary compensation.

Your maintenance for your child is not relevant in your boyfriend's divorce. However, if you were cohabiting, and the court believed that your relationship were stable and probably permanent, your finances might be taken into consideration. ( Don't tell him what you earn, then he cannot tell the court or her solicitor.) As the relationship is new and may not last, this would be unfair on both you (you might be thought of as happy to house him) and unfair on him ( his housing needs might be considered met)

He needs specialist advice from someone to whom he has disclosed all the relevant facts. If I were you I would keep a very low profile.

Haven't read whole thread, op, but my experience with a man who was separated for a year and claiming they were getting divorced is still not divorced 6 and a quarter years later. I can't find my op now but it was around first week in Sept if you want a cautionary tale.

It sounds fine, but I would advise against until the divorce is over. It might make him get his skates on. Best of..