Does anyone think people can really change??

[MinnieMummy]

Not me (honest!) but a close friend has got back together with her ex saying he has 'completely changed' after she dumped him. Apparently he has grown up, taken all her comments seriously, is seeing a counsellor, is bending over backwards to see her point of view all the time, etc. etc.

It all sounds great on paper. BUT he was emotionally abusive to her before (manipulative stuff like witholding affection and sex) as well as a total arse (I can't remember it all as I've been a bit busy with a newborn since then), coercing her into taking drugs (I know, her choice ultimately but he made her feel like she wouldn't fit in if she didn't) then telling her she should be 'grateful' that he stuck around when she passed out after having too many .

He has a 4/5yr old DS that he sees every other weekend so I can completely understand that he wouldn't want to disrupt his schedule, but he expected my friend to drop everything and spend 100% of her time on those weekends with the both of them so they could be a 'proper family', even when his parents came up too (once a month, whole weekend) and then would let his mum do the cleaning 'because it would upset her if I said no' in the flat they both were living in. Basically he'd sulk/strop if she dared have plans of her own/suggested changing the status quo even a little bit.

So, enough got enough and eventually she dumped him. I did the thing you should obviously never do, told her what an arse he is, how he didn't deserve her, etc. etc. and now of course they are back together. She says he is much better now, and I really want to be wrong, but I've read too many threads on here about manipulative tossers who promise the world and even deliver for the short-term, but then revert to their old ways.

Does anyone have experience of anyone actually changing for the better?? Please?!

From going to school at four years old and realising there was something very different and badly wrong with my family. :(

Since then a slow drip of realisations and books, counsellors etc.

The big change came last year, in fact exactly one year ago, when I realised just how damaged my mother is. Funny, her GP told me that she had a personality disorder, and I didn't know what that meant at the time. I asked my Psyche nurse friend, and she just told me that the GP shouldn't have said that. Maybe so but I think the GP had had enough too.

In the end I was gaslighted into truly believing that it was me that was mad, and I asked the GP for a referral to mental health services, which was the real thing for me. Twelve months down the line, I KNOW it's not me, but that I had inevitable co dependence issues, and did a course of inner child therapy. Hard but extremely effective.

I'm not 100%, but I'm not sure anyone ever is.

Funny, I had this conversation with a hynotherapist at lunch today. He said that he completely believes that people can change, and so did both the NHS therapists I saw.

I agree with Snorbs.

People can change but not that quickly. Especially if they have been emotionally abusive and manipulative in the past.

And I think you have to want to change for yourself. It doesn't work making a decision to change something about yourself for someone else, because as soon as they are gone or they piss you off big time, you're going to resent that change and most likely, rebel and change back.

I think it takes many different people many different routes and lengths of time!

I did not realise until teens that my family of origin was not "normal", I dipped my toe in therapy due to an overdose in teens when parents were breaking up and as the scapegoat the blame and pressure to parent my parents was placed on me. I had one family therapy session, mother and brother did not like that so that was the end of that, I had a few counselling sessions, I remember I felt I had to make her believe that everything was ok, as there was so much family pressure and i bended to it. I was then ok until ex left then after prolonged emotional abuse, after he left, I involved the police, it was after speaking to csu that I realised that my whole marriage had been abusive. I tried various therapy, private counsellor who looking back was not qualified to deal with the issues, a few nhs sessions via gp, think it was six... Then private counsellor who was dreadfull and caused me more harm than good, and then psychologist referral when i went back to gp, which has been very helpfull. Along side this I had an ed psych work with the children and a bit with me as a tutor, who worked with TA! I also did some reading etc. So with me I would say that it has been about two to three years of a slow change, I think I need more work!

What kind of training have you had, and in what field of counselling?

I did a counselling diploma but since qualifying (I'm still working towards accreditation with BACP) I've only worked with young people between the ages of 9 and 20. So I've not much experience of working with adults.

I work from a largely psychodynamic perspective but bring in bits from other schools of thought depending on what suits the situation and the client.

what would you do if you were presented with adults in the friends position?

I don't have the training to see couples, but if I saw the woman I think I'd pretty much be thinking the same thing, along the lines of 'what an arse ' but toned down as obviously I wouldn't have the same emotional investment. Obviously I don't actually say that kind of thing to my clients!

If I were seeing him... hmm, very hard to say as I don't have his side. I know he thinks she didn't want to commit to the relationship as fully as he did as she was very cagey about moving in together originally and came out with some very crap excuses. Before the break-up it seemed like he saw all the problems as hers whereas she saw it as both of them. But of course he might well have seen it differently.

I do have to acknowledge that she loves this guy, she wants a family with him and she's not stupid so he must have some pretty damn massive redeeming qualities. It's just from my (albeit skewed) perspective, he ain't worth it.