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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know it is time to end a marriage?

18 replies

MovingForward · 27/09/2010 14:00

Hi
I am at a critical decision point in my marriage. The thought of taking steps to end my marriage is scary and i am not sure if it is scary because it is a big change, or if it is because i am unsure. Has anyone else felt the same what? and how did you know if you were making the best decision?

OP posts:
gettingeasier · 27/09/2010 14:25

Its hard to comment without knowing a bit more.

I should have ended my marriage but didnt and allowed my self esteem to nosedive over a long period of time. I was too scared to do it mostly because of financial reasons as I am a SAHM and was far too comfortable in my lifestyle which I foolishly valued over integrity and living an authentic life.

My H left me and while it has been an uneven recovery process I am happier now by a long way. Its still scary at times and I have low points but I can hold my head up to my reflection now . Once we have settled our finance , I have moved and found a job I know that I will be living a life that is both better now and has promise for so much more happiness in the long run.

In short I wish this had happened a long time ago life is short

Mummiehunnie · 27/09/2010 14:35

My husband ended the marriage, if you want to talk through practicalities of being a single parent, divorce process etc, I can help with that side of thing!

One bit of adivce is if there is abuse, leave, or you are both rowing infront of the children and after therapy have not fixed the issues you have, leave! If trust has gone due to infidelity, leave! otherwise I think most people can if they want make marriage work, the grass is not as green as it seems sometimes! Children get very hurt from it, no matter how well the parents handle things!

ItsGraceAgain · 27/09/2010 14:56

If I were in this situation again, I'd go on holiday. I'm not a fan of the trial separation but it's sometimes just too damn hard to see the wood for trees. I'd take my DCs, if my potentially single future were to include them, for two weeks self-catering somewhere nice. I'd let the kids Skype him every day but would not speak or write to him myself. I'd use the time to let my head clear.

What do your friends & family feel you should do?

Mummiehunnie · 27/09/2010 15:02

As you have children together, if you are planning on doing what Grace suggests, please advise him where you are going and for how long to avoid any potential problems!

ItsGraceAgain · 27/09/2010 15:05

Oh. Yes, I wasn't recommending a midnight flit! Though it is sometimes the only option, you haven't suggested you're entrapped, just unsure.

MovingForward · 29/09/2010 22:58

hi
Thank you all for your comments. My situation is that i am married to an alcoholic. Life has been unmanageable and in a state of crisis for the last year. I am managing to run my business, pay the bills, take care of the kids and the house. He is in rehab AGAIN... this time i think he is actually out of denial. We have agreed on separation, so he won't be coming home. The next step will be to decide if we divorce. We will be speaking to talk through some things, but part of me just wants to end things. I think too much damage has been done. But then there is the thought that maybe he will stay sober and fix the things that are wrong... life could be good.

All of my friends want me to leave him. so does my family. they all say he has had enough chances.

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 29/09/2010 23:13

What sort of rehab has he had? Are you dealing with aa? I gather aa are very good! If he is continually falling off the wagon why do you continually go back to the same rehab which is not working for him long term? Have you had any therapy for the way the relationship is? Have you ever looked at the games people play? a book by Eric Berne or had Transactional Analysis therapy, the game "Alcoholic" may be something that may interest you. We all play games to some level, the idea is to cut through as many as possible and lessen life's drama's! I understand you want to give up on the marriage and if it is the end of the road for you then anyone would understand and see how hard you are trying and think poor you! good luck with what ever you decide is right for you and the children, do remember your h, will still remain in you life with his drama's due to divorce process and child contact, you will never be rid of him as long as you have children!

colditz · 29/09/2010 23:15

When the idea of 10 more years living the life you are living now makes you feel like you'd rather die.

Mummiehunnie · 29/09/2010 23:24

Nice answer Colditz, what happens in say five years time when she is saddled with husband number one being a pain in her's and kids lives, and husband number two has just entered rehab for some addiction poblem, that to me sounds like a whole heap worse, maybe it is better to go and get some counselling for herself and work through things and work out her own issues on the whole codependancy relationship thing, before making the final decision to end the relationship she is now in, at a point where her hubby is out of denial about his issues and they work together to obtain a better relationship, that is unless now he is getting better that op wants out and into another codependant relationship?!

Mummiehunnie · 29/09/2010 23:29

The following is a brief description of the Life Game Alcoholic from Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne.

In game analysis, there is no such thing as alcoholism or "an alcoholic," but there is a role called the Alcoholic in a certain type of game. If a biochemical or physiological abnormality is the prime mover in excessive drinking - and that is still open to some question - then its study belongs in the field of internal medicine. Game analysis is interested in something quite different - the kinds of social transactions that are related to such excesses. Hence the game "Alcoholic."

In its full flower this is a five-handed game, although the roles may be condensed so that it starts off and terminates as a two-handed one. The central role is that of the Alcoholic - the one who is "it" - played by White. The chief supporting role is that of the Persecutor, typically played by a member of the opposite sex, usually the spouse. The third role is that of Rescuer, usually played by someone of the same sex, often the good family doctor who is interested in the patient and also in drinking problems. In the classical situation the doctor successfully rescues the alcoholic from his habit. After White has not taken a drink for six months, they congratulate each other. The following day, White is found in the gutter.

The fourth role is that of the Patsy, or Dummy. In literature, this is played by the delicatessen man who extends credit to White, gives him a sandwich on the cuff or perhaps a cup of coffee, without either persecuting him or trying to rescue him. In life this is more frequently played by White's mother, who gives him money and often sympathizes with him about the wife who does not understand him. In this aspect of the game, White is required to account in some plausible way for his need for money - by some project in which both pretend to believe, although they know what he is really going to spend most of the money for. Sometimes the Patsy slides over into another role, which is a helpful but not essential one: the Agitator, the "good guy" who offers supplies without even being asked for them: "Come have a drink with me (and you will go downhill faster)."

The ancillary professional in all drinking games is the bartender or liquor clerk. In the game "Alcoholic" he plays the fifth role, the Connection, the direct source of supply who also understands alcoholic talk, and who in a way is the most meaningful person in the life of any addict. The difference between the Connection and the other players is the difference between professionals and amateurs in any game: the professional knows when to stop. At a certain point a good bartender refused to serve the Alcoholic, who is then left without any supplies unless he can locate a more indulgent Connection.

In the initial stages of "Alcoholic," the wife may play all three supporting roles: at midnight the Patsy, undressing him, making him coffee and letting him beat up on her; in the morning the Persecutor, berating him for the evil of his ways; and in the evening the Rescuer, pleading with him to change them.

MovingForward · 30/09/2010 21:22

Thanks MummieHunnie. I will get the book. it does sound interesting. My H is now doing a 28 day programme at a different facility. This one seems to be more firm, calling him on his lies and "bullsht", as they call it. He is doing well. We are both codependent and i am learning about this and feel that i have detached. lots more to learn though. I have been in therapy myself since January. It has been amazingly good. I want to make sure that if i do leave this relationship, i don't follow the same pattern and repeat things... with somone else, as you suggested could happen.

We have both agreed to separate, and we will take things one week at a time, continue to talk, and see where we end up. There are other things we need to discuss to. I just don't know he the way he has been was due to his drinking or if it is just the way he is. I have felt like a single mother of 3 kids (my h being the 3rd) for a long time. Our relationship is best described as me having a lodger in my house! I don't want this anymore. i'd rather be alone. I know he will be in my life forever, simply because of the kids. i just want to make sure that the kids don't see anymore drinking and daddy laying in bed every day. it is not normal. not healthy.

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 30/09/2010 21:42

Just to say MHs post re games described the whole of 2009[also years and years previous but i have clear names for the players in that year] ,we split and like you i feel i am making a more positive life for me and my kids now.I detatched from the situation and have also worked on my own co dependency/enabling issues.Once you take yourself out of the drama triangle it is amazing to watch how it still continued but with others in my place.I wish you the best of luck and i wish ur H strength to beat his addiction.My H is still in denial x

MovingForward · 30/09/2010 21:53

Hi Patience. thanks for your message. can i ask, how long do you think it took you to detach? and how do you manage visits with the kids for you H? must be difficlt if he is still in denial...

OP posts:
Dione · 30/09/2010 21:54

For me, it was when I realised I no longer had any love or respect for the man who was living in the same house as me. If the love has gone, but there remains respect, then I think there is a chance that it can work with a lot of effort and help. BTW, when I say respect, I mean respect for the whole person, not just the one who looks like he's going to complete rehab.

Contact AA have helplines for families of alcoholics. Contact them, they can help you understand what you want and how you can get it and offer advice on how to deal with your relationship with your husband. In the meantime get as much headspace as you can and don't be rushed or forced into things.

MovingForward · 30/09/2010 22:01

Dione, you make such a good point about having respect for the whole person. i struggle with this.
i have been going to Al-anon for almost 4 years. when i go, i see a lot of older women, sad women and i think to myself " i don't want to end up like them"

i have headspace now. it feels wonderful.

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 30/09/2010 22:27

MF it is nearly a year 1st Nov 2009 that i realised things were as bad as they were.He went to the pub after work everynite to have a laff with his mates home at the back of 7pm then continued to drink 4 or 5 cans after that.But he had developed a whole social life away from me,i was never included ,i did ask him not to go ,but he continued his drinking,i did ask him to cut down at home ,but he started drinking in the shed.This all happened since we had kids,he wasnt an angel b4 then but we were happy [i thought]he truly did not drink in a pub b4 we had kids ,i think that is why i believed him when he said he needed to unwind b4 coming home ,we had 2 under 2yo .I blamed myself for the stress of 2 little uns in the house,in hindsight there wouldnt have been so much stress if he had stepped up to the plate and helped me out .Anyway much tooing and froing ,left nov but back and forth til xmas,then total bender boxing day til Easter that was all my fault apparantley Confused i went to alanon and learned to stay detatched or i would have gone round the twist.Visits to dcs were sporadic ,i would never have let him near if he had been drinking so it was best for us all we didnt see much of him.Space helped me detatch tbh,always worse when i saw him ,i was desperately in love with this guy ,still fancied him the same as the day i met him ,he would say to me that he wanted to sort himself out first and then he would come home ,so he knew he had this power over me because he loved me and kept me dangling on a piece of string.When i detatched i could see the jerk that he was ,but when i was with him it was like kryptonite,but 16yrs is a lot to wipe out .Anyway he has no shame its one thing after another now and i truly do not know the bloke .I just text re visits,i dont have him in my house anymore re picking up dcs ,i do that in a neutral zone,you call the shots .I am only getting to a place now that we are independent of each other.He still doesnt have accomodation,so cant have the kids overnight but until i know there is some stability in his life that is fine .I asked my ds 2nite 5yo how many days he would like to see his daddy and he said everyday.So i am going to stay positive about this but my X has to prove to me it will not affect dcs emotional stability.We are still working towards regular Sundays ATM.If you are making a clean split i think you will get to a less emotional place quicker than me ,12mths,but it is still the breakdown of a marriage however much they let themselves down we were a loving family once.Take care of yourself ,i def felt the DOOM lift as soon as he left and tbh when i didnt know what he was doing i just handed it over to him,it wasnt my responsibility anyway i can only be responsible for myself ,bottom line is he doesnt use me as the persecutor or the rescuer anymore and that is a great freedom,i have cut the cord.

MovingForward · 30/09/2010 23:12

Patience i can feel everything you are saying. we were desperately in love too. inseperable. everything changed when we had kids. He has never really been invovled with them. although when he does a couple of hours, he is amazing with them. life became unmanageable for the last year. he has not worked. he has been drunk constantly, apart from detoxes. i took him to rehab on christmas eve. goodness knows what this year will be like. i am no longe the persewcutor or the rescuer. i have certainly played those roles. i do feel happy being me. thanks for sharing

OP posts:
Patienceobtainsallthings · 30/09/2010 23:48

No worries MF ,i just think sometimes others looking in would think if they had known my story,why would anyone put up with that,but i loved him ,i wanted to save him from this self destruction but in the end he wouldnt give up his lifestyle for his family but i had to let him go because ultimately he would have destroyed me and the dcs.He is a pathalogical liar ,goes with the territory i guess and the longer it goes on my heart catches up with my head.He will always try and con me .I think he just wants both lives ,his pub life and then come home to happy wife and dcs.I would never be happy and he would always be a selfish jerk,who in his eyes is doin nothing wrong and has a massive sense of entitlement as he works hard .Well we all work hard mate!Anyway take care of yourself ,it does get easier with time ,my X never made any attempt at rehab so you are in a different situation but i would always say trust your instinct x

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