Should I say something? Really tough situation!

[DamnedIfYouDo]

Will try to keep it brief. BIL is almost 30 lives with mis GFs mum, in 1 room with 2 kids under 4. they do fuck all, sleep all day (even missed my sosn 4th birthday party cause they 'slept in till 5PM!!) (How does that even work with 2 kids?!)

They both smoke weed and generally are arses.

(forr example the little one has no shoes, DHs nana gacve them £30 to buy him some... that was 3 weeks ago, when MIL went to pick up the 4 year old the mum was asking her to take the little one too, MIL refused because he STILL had no shoes so how was she supposed to take him out - he can't walk anywhere etc'

SIL got pissy.

So heres the thing, MIL has been in bits over this for the last few years, she is sick of them living that way and says THEY can choose to do so but they can't drag the kids down.

She has sobbed to DH several times and said she wants to phone social services on them (thats how bad it is)

Yesterday she was at the end of her tether and when she dropped the 4 year old home she confronted her son.

He went apeshit and apparantly said he doesn't want to see her anymore and she wont see the kids! (he r picking them up is the only time they get doing anything nice)

So SIL then phones DH last night saying MIL rang her DP (BIL) and 'had a go at him' she 'had her facts wrong' and BIL is'furious'

DH just said 'what do you want me to do?' SIL asked him to talk to BIL and my DH refused.

This is because we ALL FEEL THE SAME AS MIL, but shes the one to say it.

So if SIL contacts me moaning about what MIL has said should I tell her that I feel the same as MIL ad we are just concerned for the kids and what they do just isn't good for them??

Or should I keep my nose out - but then I feel like I'm abandoning MIL who is the only one who has the courage to tell them they need to get their act together and start being parents?!?

Or should I phone SS myself? :(

Quint, its wasn't MIL it was DHS nana, who is 75, she couldn't take a 4 year ld shoe shopping.

I am going to ask MIL to come round after work and sit with her and DH and talk about what the next step is.

What a tough situation, you are clearly struggling to find the best way to care for your niece and nephew and it isn't easy. I suspect that this is the point of Social Services - that they can cut through a lot of the nonsense that parents hide behind and they don't need to worry about the ways in which parents can blackmail members of the family. Phone them, and explain the whole thing, I'm sure you can be anonymous, and they can protect your MIL

sorry, I mixed mil and nana.

Good idea to call a "family meeting". I think you need to be together in this.

Damned, you aren't really being very clear on this thread - nearly 2 is not the same as 1!
I don't think you're going to get a different answer, anyway. Someone has to report them. I'd recommend doing it anonymously otherwise it gets a bit Jeremy Kyle.

Well his age is 1. but hes almost 2.

Theres alot of kids in the family! I was trying to remember his birthday.

I need to go out now but will ask DH to call his mum in a bit to ask her to call round.

I have once raised my concerns (anonymously) with the ss about a family in our neighbourhood. It will be fine.

I honestly think you should do it anonymously NOW. Before the meeting, and dont tell anybody.

I understand you are worried it will just blow up in your face if you DO threaten SS and you will lose contact with the kids, and you will not be in a position to step in and help the kids.

Which is why I think you should call ss for advice right away. YOU know the situation is not good, so act on it.

I agree with Quint, I phoned ss about family members, only difference is that sil and bil knew it was me who phoned. We didnt speak for a while and i didnt know how the dcs were or didnt see them for a while. It was a tough few months, while they were sorting themselves out, and wouldnt let me/us (family) help.

Glad to say that all are doing really well now.

Those children cannot speak out for themselves-someone needs to protect them from their neglectful selfish parents-phone Ss. Think how awful it'd be if something happened that could be prevented.

"and therefore stop the kids having contact with us."

actually if you work with SS you might find that you are able to continue contact, say even if they moved to foster family, you can make arrangements to see them there or take them out.

so actually, going into foster care (for example) would not mean you cutting off contact with the kids if you can show SS that you want to work with Ss to keep up the relationshipw ith them .

maybe go and have a look at fostering/adoption boards for ideas and advice on keeping contact as a family member if a child is taken into care

or just call SSand ask them about it.

Also agree with Quint and doing it anonymously WITHOUT TELLING anyone at all...It's the only way to do it without opening a whole can of worms

I recently had to call the police about a situation in my neighbourhood regards to some youth and stolen motorbikes, and I did not even tell my dh. Not because I dont trust him, I just did not think he would be comfortable with the knowledge, and also, the risk of him slipping up, one way or the other. I am glad I did call, as it prevented a slippery slope for somebody. Though, I am sure their parents would not thank me. Not today. But charges has been dropped and the boy got offered a place in college, so all well and good.
Sometimes you have to do something with the greater good in mind, even if there is a rough ride to get there. Good luck.

A similar situation arose in our family a few years ago - long before these things were universally recognised as being wrong.

The advice we got was 'how bad are you waiting for it to get?' and the other side of the coin is that as far as SS and other agencies are concerned, if you are aware of it and do nothing, then you are part of the neglect. You are condoning it.

It is an exceptionally difficult thing to do. I know. It tears the very heart out of you.

Things don't get better overnight, but at least the children are released from a life which is not the one they deserve.

this is very sad and I would agree with the general consensus to call the SS, at the moment the parents are abdicating all responsibility and leaving it to the rest of the family - MIL and you two - to sort out.
At the end of the day, what is more important, those kids' wellbeing, or "keeping face" with two selfish people living in denial?

I mean, not buying shoes for your child?? this also means (s)he never gets out the door(?!) cos it's too cold right now, how does that work re the playgroup? They must realise there that not all is ok...
I understand it is the younger one without shoes, but does she never get to go out to accompany her sibling to her playgroup??

This has nothing to do with smoking weed by the way, lots of people do and hold down jobs and bring up their kids fantastically...
(you just have to have your priorities in order!).

I'm glad you've posted this here, cos this is the start for a better life for those kids (cos this just breaks my heart, to be honest).

DamnedIf, did you call SS? Please update us, it makes me so sad to think of those poor children in the house all day every day with stoner parents who don't even buy them shoes...

Try the NSPCC helpline as well.

I'm ready to be flamed for this.

I didn't see the inital thread from months ago, and I trust that if OP, DH, and MIL all feel that this is a very very bad situation for the kids, then it probably is, and it wouldn't necessarily be unreasonable to contact SS.

But I'm kind of taken aback by the opinions expressed on the thread that this is clear-cut abuse and neglect, and foster care is an option for these kids.

Based soley on what you've said the issues are:

Parents don't work or do anything else and frequently sleep in (til 11am most days?) until they take the older child to nursery.

They once slept until 5pm and missed your child's birthday.

The one (but almost two) year old doesn't have shoes.

They smoke weed.

This doesn't sound like an ideal home by any stretch of the imagination, but neither does it sound, to me, like a clear-cut case of abuse and neglect. It sounds depressing and not somewhere I'd want two children I love to be growing up, so I completely understand the OP and her MIL's concerns.

But I do think there's a middle ground between "not great parents" and "abuse and neglect".

The SIL wanted MIL to take the younger child out, so obviously she isn't imprisoned in the house due to the lack of shoes. I presume at almost two she is still small enough to be carried from house to buggy to carseat or whatever. Of course she should have shoes, it is terrible that she doesn't. But I think "neglect" is a very strong term and doubt that this meets any legal definition of it.

Again, I'm not saying any of this is ok. I think if concerned members of the family feel that the kids need support from SS then absolutely they should call and speak up for the kids. But if the things listed in the OP are really the worst things that are going on, I think the rhetoric could be taken down a notch?

i think a walking / toddling child without shoes is neglectful, especially when a family member gave money for shoes

i might be wrong, but i extrapolated from that the money was spent elsewhere, i/e on weed.

children not having basics so adults can have drugs is neglectful

A middle ground could be to find out who their health visitor is and speak to her.

We have a lovely HV ( < faint > yes! they do exist) and I phoned her about a disturbing incident I saw in the street with a mother and her child. I described them and she knew who they were. She said "you can phone Social Services if you like, or leave me to look into it." She thought - as did I - the incident I had witnessed was down to stress and the mother being at the end-of-her-tether, rather than actual abuse, so I was happy to leave it with her because she was going to offer help and support. In those circumstances I was loath to throw SS into the mix.

AFAIK she dealt with it.

I think that safeguarding children from neglect, or something worse, is the responsibility of every adult that comes into contact with that child. On that basis, and given that everything that you have said is correct, I think that you have no alternative but to call SS. SS then have the job of deciding whether or not there is neglect, and if there is, acting on it. If SS decide that the family is ok, they will let the matter drop - they simply don't have the resources to support/police families who are not really having problems.

cloudydays, I dont think any of us here is in a position to say that this IS neglect. The op is advised to contact SS so they can assess the situation and see if this is a case of neglect.

However, what sort of mum does not bother about buying shoes for her child? What frame of mind is she in? I would say that in the uk, in September, shoes is a basic need. And this childs basic needs is not met.
What else does these parents not bother with? Aside from getting up in the morning?