marriage guidance and/or info on divorce law

[anto]

Hi

Is anyone able to recommend any mariage guidance/couples counselling in the London area? i also, sadly, need to know a little bit about divorce law and the way it works.

Yesterday morning at 8.30 a man rang on my doorbell and told me that his wife and my husband are having an affair and that it's been going on since mid-May. I have a 2yr 10mth old and a 4 month old. I am really struggling to hold it all together and I need to know what I am entitled to. At the moment my husband is talking about leaving us and doesn't believe me when I say he will still have to support us in the marital home for the foreseeable future, but I think that's correct. Also the woman he is thinking of leaving me for has 2 small kids but isn't married to their father so I understand he will have to support the children but not her. Which means, I think, that my husband will have to support us and him & her, somehow. I am still breastfeeding and not due to go back to work (2 days a week) till next Jan. I have a nanny 2 days a week and he says she will have to go first of all.

And all this because he felt 'trapped' by arrival of a much-wanted second baby. Ironic, isn't it, as now he's going to be well and truly shackled.

sorry to hear about this anto - it really isn't what you need with a 4 month old baby.

I know people here will be able to give more specific advice than me, but please get legal advice as soon as you can (even if you think you may patch things up) as it is all very complicated. And good luck.

Am horribly sorry and am also in a rather similar situation. Your h has to support your children - I think it's a minimum of 20% of his salary but there are a lot of other add ons. As to his support for you that varies but he does have a legal responsibility towards you as well. It gets complicated re the marital home as if he really does go then he also has to be finaicially capable of providing a place for his children to visit. I may be completely confused so contact a solicitor asap. I have a spreadsheet that details all the possible expenditure that you may make over an average month that you should fill in and present him with to give him a bit of a shock. But do get legal help asap. Am so sorry, what a terible situation. My h left in May and is cohabiting with a much younger model leaving me with two girls under four. It's very hard so I really do sympathise and hope you can get as much support as possible.

anto, i'm so sorry. please get legal advice asap. i think your h may be in for a rude awakening. fwiw, imo concentrating on the practicalities is the right thing to do atm. good luck and stay strong. all the best, bk.

Thanks all for the good advice. I am so confused. My husband is in a terrible state begging me to forgive him and bombarding me with phone calls all day long asking me how I am feeling and what I'm going to do. I tried to persuade him to leave on Tuesday night but he won't go and I wasn't strong enough to force him. I know I could have done it as I also chucked him out on Monday but it's all so hard when you're trying to shield a toddler from all the rowing.

The thing is that I don't think I can ever forgive the terrible betrayal. He has been so horrible every since dd2 was born and has totally blighted her early months. He has repeatedly lied to me. And he doesn't really even seem to understand the enormity of what he did e.g. lied and told me he was going on a corporate golf weekend that was essential for his career when he was going on a dirty weekend with this woman. But the worst, IMO, is that he took her and her 2 kids away to Devon for a long weekend, leaving us at home, me with a 12-wk-old, even though I asked him not to go (thought he was going on a surfing weekend with a mate, of course). How can I ever get over this? Did I mention that she actually lives in our road and he used to go round to her house for sex?

Anto, so sorry to hear this - what a horrible situation. Get legal advice asap.

I'm not sure what on earth to say. I agree with not wanting children to grow up without fathers as, in all honesty, despite the fact that my h has left and is living with the person he was having an affair with I would probably try again. I used to think I could never forgive infidelity but the fallout (emotionally) on my eldest dd is awful to see. However, would he do it again, what kind of a role model is that, etc, etc. I'm sure some of it is loneliness and feeling heartbroken for myself. Every situation is different and if you can face it I would try counselling to at least understand why it happened even if you don't reconcile. Lots of luck and hope you're being supported.

Thanks so much for all your support and good wishes - it does give me a bit of faith back in humankind in general.

We need some counselling asap as I am just so hung up on this woman and so full of rage and hatred towards her and that's not really very helpful b/c she's pretty irrelevant in that we need to address what caused him to behave like this (so out of character) and how we can improve our relationship. I must be very naive because apart from the usual squabbles & issues - lack of interest in sex, the mundane day to day life with children, losing my looks/youth etc - I have always believed that I was so lucky to have such a wonderful husband & happy marriage. It's just been the last 10 weeks that have been horrendous, and now I know why.

I am very lucky and have wonderful friends but to be honest I do feel like this is the biggest piece of gossip on the grapevine for about 3 yrs and I can only imagine all the phone calls & speculation that's going on amongst our friends.

It must be very difficult if she lives very closely to you - well obviously horribly dificult anyway. We tried counselling and it (obviously) didn't help us. However, we didn't do it for anywhere near long enough and she wasn't the right counsellor. I've since had good recommendations so if you're in London it might be useful? Hope it all works out.

Sykes, any recommendations for counsellors gratefully received

I have the numbers at home and can let you have tomorrow. They are v expensive, but if it helps to resolve things then I'm sure it's worth it. Have been told in some cases you can claim against private health insurance. However, that's a hornets' nest I don't want to stir up - ie the private health issue. You may need to get my e-mail address from tech as it might look like advertising if I posted the therapists'/counsellors' numbers recommended to me. Lots of luck.

Anto, I really feel for what you are going through after my husband left me when my children were 9, 5 and 12 weeks. It is absolutely soul destroying.

I can't help with you what is the law but he moved out in September after ending the marriage in February (7 months living under same roof but leading separate lives - not recommended).

I have not filed for divorce (can't afford it) and am happy with what he pays me each month for the children £450. He is living with a girl from work who used to live with her nan, but the nan died, and ex-H and T have now taken over the tenancy on the housing association property. Because she has a daughter, apparently my ex-h also has a responsibility (money wise) for his girlfriend's child although the father does support the daughter but, if I went through the CSA or courts to try and get more money, they would take that into consideration.

I am still living in the marital home with the 3 children and his name is still on the mortgage. Apparently he cannot force me to sell the house until the youngest leaves full time education (she is not yet 2) but when I do sell in, say, 15 years time, he wil be entitled to half, although he is no longer living there and not actually paying towards the mortgage, but the money he gives me each month does go towards helping me pay the mortgage, bills, etc. and that is why he would be entitled to half.

He is off on holiday with girlfriend, her daughter and the 3 children on Sunday for a fortnight and I am going away with my mum for a fortnight on Monday.

When I get back from holiday I want to speak to my mortgage provider, after speaking to ex of course, about having his name taken off the mortgage but also having it in writing what he would be entitled to if, say, I paid him off now.

It is all such a mine field.

I never imagined when I got married that I would ever have to deal with the separation, but saying that I don't really deal with it anyway - I just seem to take each day as it comes and don't worry about the future too much.

What will be, will be.

Bumblelion, you don't sound v happy anymore - you seemed to be doing really well before. Have things taken a turn for the worse/a particularly bad day?

bumblelion, i have been told that they do not take children that are not yours into account when calculating csa payments?

They don't. Only any children your ex may have with a new partner. Anyway, the CSA isn't really for people who used to be married, it's for unmarried couples with kids. In a divorce a judge can order anything and does not have to abide by the forthcoming CSA formula which will be a straight percentage of income regardless of outgoings.

Thanks for your concern Sykes, but actually I am the happiest I have been in such a long time.

I am in a relationship (some might say too early, but I know it isn't - been separated over a year, been totally on my own since September). The guy is someone I worked with 12 years ago but then he left the company - I still work there.

We met up last year in June and started going out as friends, he told me in November how he felt about me and I ran a mile. I then lost my mobile and thought I had lost all contact with him, when I bumped into him in the local petrol station, completely out of the blue. Started seeing each other again just as friends and things have just developed from there.

I am a bit stressed at the thought of my ex taking my 3 children on holiday for a fortnight. Okay, I am going away with my mum which will be nice but I will still miss them so much. I am not so worried about the elder two - they understand that it is only a fortnight and they will be with their dad, but I am worried about the youngest who is a (delayed) 21 month old and she won't understand. She might just think she has been abandoned.

I hate her to think I have abandoned her.

Life is just so complicated at times though.

My new man is 3 years younger than me but I have known him 12 years. He has been married (got a child from that marriage who lives up north and he doesn't get to see) and then lived with a girl. That girl had a baby last November who he is contact with - him and the girl had actually broken up just before I bumped into him last June.

He has "sort of" moved in with me - but it is still my house.

We are over that honeymoon period but are so in love and so right for each other and want to be together for ever.

He doesn't like the fact that he is living in "my" house and wants us to have our own house together - he has got money from the sale of his house that he lived in with his old girlfriend.

I can see that we do need to have our "own" house but (1) my house is fairly large but to move locally would have to pay a lot more for something just a little bit bigger (2) he would like to move to the south coast (where he has lots of friends) but I am a bit more wary, never having moved out of my local area where I currently live.

It is not that I am worried about committing myself to this man - it is just so strange. When he told me how he felt about me, I never imagined it as I felt the same towards him but would never have told him.

We are just so good for each other and make each laugh, we are totally honest with each other and have lighthearted conversations, but also deep conversations.

Sorry for waffling ...

That's lovely re your partner - congratulations. Can't imagine ever getting even close to wanting someone new in my life. However, who knows ... I must say I think you're being very generous letting your h have the children for two weeks with his gf. Am sure they'll be fine and you must need a rest despite missing them horribly.

Haven't read all of this so apologies if i repeat anyone but my understanding of it all (sister went through similar) is that yes he is legally bound to support you and the kids. The CSA are the best people to contact (claims can take a while) but they will work out a monthly amount as a percentage of what your husband earns that will then be taken out of his wages and paid to you. i think i'm right in saying that he has to help provide a roof over your head too. He will be well and truly cained financially what with trying to support his girlfriend too!!! Now he will know the true meaning of the word trapped!!!

The CSA formula is ONLY about providing child support. A court settlement in divorce can provide for you. The CSA formula is 15% of his after-tax salary for one child, 20% for two, and 25% for three. There is nothing extra. A court settlement for divorce will also consider your needs and your housing needs when deciding how much you need. It can even transfer a house entirely into your name if it thinks this is fair. It doesn't mean a 50-50 split, just that this is the very least you should get, even if your dh is a zillionaire. I think the CSA is really appropriate for unmarried couples who can't get a divorce.

Oh, and divorce settlement will consider all your joint assets including pensions, Isas, saving plans etc - they are all considered jointly owned in a marriage even if they are only in your or his name.

bumbele lion i have just discovered you on this thread, was it yourself that was going through the separaton at the same time as myself?-about a year ago?

Anto, just read your post. Not on Mumsnet as I would be usually. I'm so sorry to hear your situation. What a horrible shock. In a not disimilar situation myself. Rising 4 yr old and 15 month old. H started an affair about 8 months ago.
Counselling is all very well but only if your H is no longer seeing the other woman, otherwise IMO it is a waste of time and money.
We seem to be staggering towards a formal separation period. I am going to see a solicitor as soon as I can organise it to see what exactly that involves.
I am sorry for all the pain and angst you are going and will go through.
Cyberhugs

My husband walked out 5 years ago for another woman and left me with two children under 2.5. All I can say is it is hard, but it does get better. I now feel a strong and independent woman. I have a new partner and my ex- hasn't bothered with his children now for almost 3 years. His loss.

As for the CSA: For all new cases, there are new rules under the CSA, which are thankfully much easier and more transparent to understand. You can see the table on the CSA Web Site. Basically, its your husband's weekly wage, after income tax and NI, and the no. of children you have and the number of children living in his "new" household (irrespective of whether he is their father nor not).

Legal advice was free in the solictors I visited for the first hour. You may also qualify for legal aid. Council Tax will also be reduced to 75% of the cost for one adult living there. You should also get in touch with the tax office as you can make a claim for additional child tax credit as there is less income coming into the home and they do not take maintenance into consideration.