I probably need a verbal slap around the face to get over this, so AF etc please line up

[JustNotThatIntoMe]

Please help me analyse this because it is driving me nuts and making me miserable. And if I need a good talking to please go ahead. Anything to help me move on.

At the start of the year, I told DH we needed to go to Relate or our marriage was over. That's a whole other thread - let's just say he's controlling and critical - and I have been on here under previous names about that.

Literally the day after he finally agreed to Relate, someone from my past contacted me via Facebook. You can see where this is going, can't you? I know, I know, he got me when I was at my most vulnerable.

I'd had a bit of a crush on him all those years ago. Turns out he'd had a bit of a crush on me too. But we both got into other relationships, both got married (him extremely happily) both had kids. Two years ago his wife dumped him without warning and took off with another man. He was devastated. He has been single since. He is a kind man, a great dad (kids prefer being with him to their mum) funny, intelligent, was there for me when I was at rock bottom in my marriage, we met once for coffee which DH knew about but I could see my head was getting turned so I asked for all contact to stop for three months so I could go through the process of Relate with a clear head.

To cut to the chase: after the three months, he contacted me. I won't lie: I was delighted. I had missed him like mad. If he had said the word, I was prepared to leave DH so I would have the opportunity to start something with him. But I didn't get the chance to tell him any of this because it all went weird. After an initial message from him where he sounded a bit bitter that according to pics on my FB profile things were going ok with DH (they weren't any better: it's just we all get good at keeping up appearances, don't we?) he stopped responding to my messages - just a simple 'hello, how are you, how have the past few weeks been?'. (He'd always been pretty instant, made it clear everything revolved around hearing from me.) I told him I felt confused. He didn't respond. I took his silence to mean he had lost interest, and told him that therefore I was deleting all his details, which I did.

I felt stupid, devastated, confused, but knew I had to move on as he was clearly over me.

Six weeks later, he contacted me again. Not with a message, but with a pic that he knew would make me laugh a lot. I responded by asking him how he was. He went quiet again. I took a deep breath and called him. He sounded awkward. He pretty much said he'd been lying low because he had felt a bit stalked... By now I was completely baffled. It was at this stage I lost my cool with him and told him not to contact me again.

That would be the end of the story except my emotions are totally getting in the way and I feel confused, stupid, appalled that I am viewed as some kind of mad stalker, angry that his mixed messaged meant I got so needy, a bit broken hearted and very baffled.

I am finding it very hard to get him out of my system because I got no closure. He wouldn't tell me where his head was at with the contact/no contact thing, despite me repeatedly asking. If he Just Wasn't That Into Me why did he initiate contact, twice? And if he felt 'stalked' why would he send me a pic a few weeks later?

Can anyone please enlighten me? My guess is that unfortunately, despite him protesting to be Mr Moral who would never get in the way of someone's marriage, he probably just wanted a shag with someone he fancied (he made that very clear) and when it became apparent it was more complex and would be a long time coming, if ever, he got bored. But WHY WHY WHY would he initiate contact again, twice? And how do I stop myself playing the game if he does it again?

I know how pathetic this sounds. Bring it on...

SGB you're uncomfortably close to the truth. I've come close to jumping off the cliff a couple of times and leaving but the consequences are so huge (for the children, for all the usual reasons following a split. And for all of us - I would be denying us all the chance to return to where we lived overseas which is quite possibly a better way of life, especially for the kids, but once again that's a whole other thread).

I quite fancy the idea of being on my own and rediscovering me. I wouldn't want to leap from one relationship to another. But I'm also honest enough to admit I am a coward and I am terrified I wouldn't cope on my own. That could be a low self esteem thing, or it could be the reality of having two kids under two and a half.

Anyway, you've helped me shake the dust out of my eyes and see this, and him, for what it is. And Anniegetyourgun I do 'know' his wife (as in we all worked together) and while she always struck me as the pretty spoiled princess type I don't have any contact with her now so yes I do only have his word for all of this. I'm sorry your XH acted this way. But thanks for helping to give me a perspective on what he's told me.

I don't think he will contact me again. But if he does, I will be so tempted to tell him I have finally had my eyes opened and I know his game. But do you think it would be better to just ignore him completely? I'm really hopeless at doing the ignore thing...

Yes but what is better for you and the children in the long term?. Being in this marriage is not good for either the children or you. A negative critical man will eventually destroy all of you and I would argue that he is not a good dad at all. Many women who write such comments only do so as well because they personally have nothing at all positive to say about their man. You are both teaching your children damaging lessons on relationships.

Talking of which, what did you yourself learn about relationships from your own parents when growing up?. You do not of course have to answer that but I do wonder if you subconsiously chose a man for a H just like your own Dad.

You do not need someone to rescue you. No-one should act as either a rescuer or a saviour in a relationship because it just does not work. You need to rescue your own self and love your own self for a change.

The OM is a smokescreen for what is really happening here.

just I was in a very similar situation some time back. Apart from the way his wife left, my situation was very similar to yours!
Old acquaintance from past got in contact via web. We emailed and talked for 2 years during which time he had an on/off marriage with wife living in another country. I was vulnerable and on the verge of splitting with my DH. We got close and I got to the point where I thought he meant he cared as much as he said he did- so decided to take him at his word and move things along, which is what he'd been asking for for ages. You have never see anyone run so fast. He said we could be friends but nothing else and he has gone to ground. I felt a fool. I miss him very much. We had got very very close emotionally and I thought he really cared. I think he realised I wasn't really fling material, but he has never apologised for leading me on, and on, and on. I am not sure that I was the only one either that he was doing this with.
I feel very sad as I really did care.

This won't help you much, but you are not alone in this!

Attila you raise some interesting points which I know I need to address. DH's dad was extremely controlling and critical and to this day DH's relationship with his dad is strained. Ironically, DH is terrified of turning into his dad and when I raised it at Relate he said he was appalled he had been making me feel so crushed and tense etc as he grew up in that environment and knows how it feels. As I said he has definitely done his best to curb it but his black moods and quick temper are still there (of course) and I still find myself recoiling as the easiest way to diffuse things.

My own dad is completely the opposite. Mellow, easy going, gentle, happy go lucky. In contrast my mum is the controlling figure with a short fuse and DH and I have acknowledged that my mum and his dad share many similar traits.

I don't like the way my mum talks to my dad a lot of the time. He is a good and gentle man and she can be downright rude and horrible to him, even in front of people. Yet it seems to work for them.

I honestly don't know where my low self esteem comes from. I was bullied at school but how long can you go through life blaming stuff like that? I am frequently given compliments about the way I look and I can be objective to know I'm doing ok in the attractiveness stakes.

But I feel so needy and have this pathetically huge gratitude for anyone who pays me attention. I always have had. I honestly don't know what that's all about.

yep I'm sorry you were put through the mill by this man. The fact you never got an apology just adds to the pain and humiliation. I feel for you and I am grateful to you for sharing.

I don't think there is a person in the world who doesn't like and won't respond to flattering attention. It is not to do with self-esteem.

More to the point, you are not happy in your marriage. When that is the case, you are vulnerable to new "connections". That is how it was for me.

In my case, my relationship- for want of a better word- with this guy was very high brow a lot of the time, and raking over our past, parenting etc etc. but he then put a sexual element into it. By then I was sucked right in and cared for him and decided right- let's get on with this. I think all along he valued the friendship, but at the same time wanted no strings sex.

WRT to the other bloke, if he tries another tug - ignore. If you respond, you're giving him a payoff ... and trying to score points, which means you're back in the game. A very simple rule, which we all apply in our everyday lives, is to ask yourself what the other person hopes to get out of the effort they're making (that is, what's the transaction?)

A very close friend, talking about their disruptive childhood, might be looking to improve intimacy - which is fine if you want to understand them better. If it's someone you don't know all that well, they're probably checking to see if you've got any 'rescuer' buttons that can be pushed. And which vulnerabilites you have, for future misuse.

Just: with an uptight, controlling mother, it would be almost inevitable that you'd have a deep-seated craving for affection. Do you ever believe you can be loved just for being you - regardless of how you look, or how you perform? You can work on that longer-term but, for now, just be aware of it. It will make you less vulnerable to the baddies, and also less desperate to cling to an unhelpful relationship :)
Good luck.

Yep it was a very similar thing with me and this guy. Our conversations were very high brow (back in the day we both had pretty high powered jobs) and I genuinely think, to start with at least, he felt there was a connection there on an intellectual/emotional level. He told me that many times and would be busy texting me while out on 'random' dates... But ultimately it seems men think with their pants and I am beginning to see he probably just wanted some fun, an ego stroke and a shag. At that start he went on about 'never thinking in a million years someone like you would look at someone like me' and he actually went on to say ' in truth I feel like cutting the contact now, feeling as smug as fuck'. Perhaps the truth was right there in that line. I'd given him what he wanted: an almighty back slap and affirmation that he was hot in my eyes. After that, it made the game playing for him easy but, liek you, I was by then sucked right in and I just got needier and needier. I feel so cross with myself that I went from being on this 'pedestal' to being the needy, rejected one. What a fool I have been, but you live and learn I guess. Men don't want complications and baggage, and when he said he 'wanted to be there' for me it was just bullshit.

Well I don't do no strings sex. I still don't. At least I can hold on to that.

I wouldn't say "men" are like that ... some people are, quite a few of them in fact! There really are plenty of sane, well-adjusted men who respect other people, including women.
You're going through quite some learning curve right now, aren't you? How does it feel to be getting wiser?

Grace I wish I could say something positive about getting wiser. But right now I just feel naive, stupid and played. Perhaps that's what happens when you've been off the market for twenty years.

It doesn't make me relish the idea of dating again down the track should I decide to leave DH. It seems all you ever see is threads about what utter shits there are out there. I felt so lucky that fate had brought back into my life this lovely, genuine man. You know you're lost when you start to imagine there could be a future down the track. Well, turns out he was just another turd. And I just have to suck it up.

I guess my guard would be well and truly up if there was a next time. And I would never fall over myself to open up so quickly either. Perhaps that's a positive.

OP- I feel so cross with myself that I went from being on this 'pedestal' to being the needy, rejected one.

I could have written that too. At the start he couldn't get enough- emails daily, asking for phone chats etc etc. but once I suggested actually meeting up- this was all long distance- he seemed cooler. On the one hand we would be having steamy chats but when I said okay, enough talking...it was kind of "Oops, you don't really think I meant that...!"

Yet underneath all of this was, for me, a very deep genuine liking for him, and a friendship. I thought he felt the same, I think he is very confused. He is constantly looking for affirmation of his attractiveness as his wife is really messing him about, (lives overseas mainly) but at the same time he is no way ready for anything else other than a no strings shag. My mistake was to allow him- and it was him- to move the boundaries, and believe that he cared for me as much as he said he did. Maybe like you did.

I dodn't know if he even realises that he gave a very mixed message.

I know this isn't helping your pain, but I do understand it!

Well, you see threads about shits because people in happy, successful relationships don't need to analyse them! I regularly check sources like this to make sure I know what a healthy relationship looks like

Going too fast has always been a danger sign. It still is. There are couples who fall in love instantly and forever, but that is so rare it makes news! Best not to rely on it, eh. I once read a really funny article in Marie Claire (I think), which went through all the misleading cliches about romantic love - "You had me at hello", "I love you for who you could be", etc. I'll see if I can find it online

OK, I am obviously redundant on this thread by now

I second all the advice you have had

You have been very, very silly and fallen for the cliched traps of a game-player

But you know that

So don't do it again...if he contacts you, the only route for you I believe is complete and utter stony silence

Now I think you are unhappy in your marriage, and vulnerable to being hoodwinked by tossers, so please your precious energies to get that sorted

good luck and don't beat yourself up so much....unhappy people do silly things but all is not lost x

*please use

great link grace x

Thanks Grace, and AF. You're both right of course. And I know I need to go away and fix myself before I can hope to sort out my marriage. It's time to look after no 1 instead of worrying about this tosser. It's done. Tomorrow, I'm taking the first steps to improving my circumstances; I've been sitting on the fence waiting for someone else to do it but I am the only one who can make myself happier.

I want to say thank you to everyone for your input; for the first time I am feeling a tiny bit at peace and less like I can't move on.

Now off to read self esteem thread...

keep us updated

Grace is absolutely bang on with her comments. He's a game player and the bait and hook analogy are spot on.

Sending the picture was the bait - you took it. It's his way of checking you are still there, tugging the line to make sure you are still on the end of it.

The blowing hot and cold is the worst possible kind of relationship - you would never know if you were on your arse or your elbow with him, and if you think you have self esteem issues now, if you stay in contact with this guy they will only get worse. At least with your husband you know exactly where you are, exactly what the score is. With this other guy, you have no way of knowing what is going on in his head, and that is apparent from his behaviour/and the affect it has already had on you.

No contact is the only way to go. Complete no contact. You will probably still get the odd text message or some other type of contact - even after months go by without hearing anything - so be prepared for that, and be prepared to ignore it. Pull up the drawbridge, batten down the hatches and shut this guy out of your life - he's no knight in shining armour riding in to rescue you, he's just bad news.

Fontella you're totally on the money about him blowing hot and cold and if I'm shaky emotionally now it would only get a whole lot worse. And you also talk sense that at least with DH I know where I am. It's the one thing that's served to put DH in a good light: he's always been steady and a great communicator and it's without doubt what has kept our marriage going for so long. I couldn't bear to be with someone who messed with my head like that permanently. I was just looking to make an excuse for his behaviour other than him being a game playing arsehole. But you all clarified that one for me.

So this morning I put the feelers out for work contacts. Working will make me feel better about myself. My confidence has been so low and I've been so distracted I haven't done anything about it, despite thinking about it for months.

Then this afternoon I realised I'd had an hour or so where I ACTUALLY HADN'T THOUGHT about him. Sounds pathetic but believe me, this is a major achievement. I have wasted an unbelievable amount of time and emotional energy worrying about all of this and trying to figure out what's been going on.

(And that's a whole other topic up for discussion but why is it that perfectly intelligent worldly-wise women can cope with virtually anything life throws at them, but chuck a game-playing twat in their path and they just CANNOT see it when everyone else can? It's going to take me a long, long time to get my head around that one.)

I'm still angry that this bastard played me like a fiddle when I was at my most vulnerable. But the fact is I'm ANGRY rather than grief-stricken, which I'd got stuck in for way too long. Your feedback gave me the push I needed mentally to begin to move on.

Nothing feels so bad today. Thank you.

good girl...keep it up x