MIL

[lovechocolate]

I really need advice on what to do as at the moment I cant seem to see the wood for the trees! Its going round and round in my head and I want to make sure I am being reasonable!

I am finding the relationship with my MIL increasingly difficult. I am at the stage now where I cannot see how it can improve but I want to make sure I have done everything I can to try and continue a relationship for the sake of my DH and DD (aged 2). What makes it harder is that she can be a very caring and thoughtful person but at the same time is manipulative, over powering and controlling. Its not made easier by the fact that I had a very controlling father which has probably made me more determined that I will not be controlled by anyone again. Add that I am 29 weeks pregnant am sure am being more sensitive than usual.

Every time I see her she upsets me or makes me really angry. She says and does what she wants regardless of anyone elses feelings/ views. Her family are used to it and tend to put up with it. Examples include:

1. Me calling her a few days before visiting to let her know I was trying to lose weight for an operation. I said that I would not be having starters and puddings with my meals so please don't buy any for me. When it came to the first meal time she asked me what soup I wanted to start. I said I would not have any thank you. I was then told "yes you will". Four times in 2 mins I was asked and I gave the same answer each time. When at the table my FIL brings in soup for me. I say I am not having any soup thanks, so he takes it back into the kitchen where I hear her tell him I am pathetic as I wont eat her soup. FIL was told to bring it back in again and put it on the table. I did not eat it, I bit my tongue and during the meal made a point of explaining again how it was hard trying to lose the weight for my operation. It was a battle for me most meals for the rest of our stay. (at the time they lived 2 and a half hours drive away so we would stay for a weekend).

2.Whenever she wanted to make arrangements to visit etc she would tell my DH she wanted to 'speak to the management' (me). The reason being she knows my DH will tell her no more easily than I would and that she does not trust him to get messages/ instructions right. After a while when she would say this I would reply with "Well you had better speak to DH then" in a light hearted manner. She has now stopped this.

1. Getting a stroppy email from her because I had not let her know how her son had enjoyed his swimming with sharks experience. My DH answered her message as he and I had a conversation where we agreed it is his responsibility to keep in touch with his family. Since then he has answered all her emails (as she sends them both to us) and signed them from us all. On our last visit she looked me straight in the eye and told me in a very firm tone "I still like to receive emails you know". I changed the subject.

1. When asking her not to do something with DD eg. To let her feed herself, I get comments where she says' Well I am her Grandma, I dont see her very often and I want to feed her'. Does not even look at me when she is speaking. I then have to ask her again to not feed her. She stops but is not happy about it.

1. DD was due to be christened. A few days earlier my Dad passed away I had not been close to him for years however it was still upsetting. My brother who was close to him wanted the christening to go ahead so it did. My DH called his MUm to tell her that she was not to ask me anything about my Dad as just on that one day I did not want to talk about it. Within 5 seconds of her arrival when we were on our own she bought it up!

1. Final straw for me on our last visit (which was for a week as we now live abroad) she was obviously getting cross that I would not go and sit in a chair she wanted me to when I was already sitting somewhere very comfortably for over an hour. 3 times she told me to go and sit there and each time I replied very politely I was fine where I was. She then raised her voice and said to me "When are you going to start doing as you are told!"clearly starting to get wound up. I did not respond.

There are so many examples I could give. It is continuous and she mainly does it when its only her and I there.

I am a strong person and I have always been respectful to my in laws. I bite my tongue because I know there is no going back when it all comes out. I will get the silent treatment or the sarcastic comments both of which I will not put up with and at which point I will refuse any contact with her. This will put my DH in a very difficult position which I don't want to do!

As we live abroad, I know they are going to want to come and visit when the baby arrives. Its a 14 hour flight so they need to come for 2 or 3 weeks cant expect them to come for a shorter period. We have the space so cant expect them to stay in a hotel. My DH has agreed to take annual leave whilst they are here. Thats great, he knows what she is like and is supportive. I just cant face them being here. I am dreading it I am not sleeping and its put a real dampner on this pregnancy for me as I just don't want to be anywhere near her. I know it will come to a head and I will fall out with her and then for me that will be the end of a relationship with her and I don't want to upset anyone.

Then I think why should I be having sleepless nights, feeling so anxious and having this black cloud hanging over my head all of the time? I have done nothing wrong. My DH sister and BIL have an even more difficult relationship with her so I know its not me. Its one of the main reasons they moved abroad as it was starting to affect their marriage.

Its starting to affect my marriage now because I feel so down about it all. My DH and I cant agree when to visit the UK after the baby is born. I want to go sooner rather than later as my sister cant afford to come here and visit and it will also mean PIL wont need to visit so soon. My DH wants to wait 7-8 months after birth so his sister who also lives abroad will be able to travel back to England to see us. I understand his point of view but if we go for this option then I know his Parents will want to come over. Am in tears again at the thought of having them here. Am I being unreasonable to say we have to go back earlier?

Also, any advice on how to handle the relationship with MIL would be much appreciated. Thank you for reading this!

You poor love, I don't think you are being over-sensitive at all, she sounds like a very controlling person who is over-fond of getting her own way and doesn't like being
challenged in any way. Spoilt brattish behaviour should never be allowed to continue (strong feelings on this atm as DS is now 2.9 and really starting to push boundaries!)

I do not think you have to have your PILs to stay with you. I think you need to stick to the time your DH would prefer so that his sister also gets an opportunity to see the new baby; but you do NOT have to allow them to stay at your house in the interim. Tell them politely it will not be convenient to have them to stay as you have entirely too much to deal with as it is and will not be able to hostess for them - if they choose to come, make is abundantly clear that they WILL have to stay in a hotel. DO NOT back down on this.

If your DH refuses to make them go to a hotel, then insist on going back earlier. Give him those choices - Either we go back early so they don't come over here at all, Or we go back when you want and if they come they stay in a hotel. No variation allowed.

As far as the rest is concerned, you seem to be doing a fine job of standing up for yourself and not being rude to her (how, I don't know!) so keep doing what you're doing. She might not like you for standing up to her but if you bow down now, she will lose any respect for you and may still not like you that much, so carry on.

Hope that helps and I really feel sorry for you in this situation.

I sympathise entirely and agree with what thumbwitch has said. My MIL is very similar to yours in lots of ways (does yours try the shouting and the tears when she doesn't get her own way)? I'm sure that mine has lost respect for me because I haven't told her where to go when she's shouted at me, precisely for the reasons you have stated, i.e you want to maintain the relationship for the sake of the children and your dh.

Like you, we have also moved abroad, which was a source of much tension. I am also pregnant, for which she has not congratulated me, but I don't know whether that is because she is upset that it will be another grandchild she won't see very often. However they came to visit very recently with dh's brother and girlfriend. They all stayed in the house, went off to visit Yellowstone for a week then came back for the remainder of their holiday. Despite me worrying sick about it, it was actually ok for the most part. Maybe she was more relaxed because her other son was there? Anyway the point of all this rambling is to a, sympathise with you, and b, to suggest that maybe your dh's sister could visit at the same time? I don't know how feasible that is, but I wonder whether that would reduce a bit of tension. Sorry to talked about my situation so much, just wanted to let you know you are not alone.

Thank you both for your responses. You are right Thumbwitch, I will give my DH the choice of those two options. Great advice.
Congratulations Tadjennyp on your pregnancy. I have not seen the shouting or tears as yet! I suggested that my DHs sister could visit at the earlier time but it means her children missing school. Am glad their visit was not as bad as you thought it would be. My ILs have already visited for 3 weeks and it was hell. My DH was working and I was left to entertain them. I tried sending them off to do the tourist things which gave me some relief but MIL said that next time they come they wont need to do any of the tourist stuff and will be very happy just hanging around the apartment!!!
It makes me so cross that we are the ones who are trying to do the right thing whilst being treated badly by someone else and yet its us that are left so stressed and upset by it all. I dont think I should be getting treated by someone in this way and I don't know how much more of it I can take before I explode!

Do you live in a place where there is somewhere at a greater distance they would like to visit? That way they could split up their stay and make it less stressful all round. Is she a good grandmother in most respects? If she starts on you, can you reply with a stock phrase, such as, 'I don't appreciate being spoken to like that?' Try and see it as a positive that they want to spend time with you. Would you let them take out your older child for a couple of hours to give you a break?

I know how easy it is to get over-sensitive about everything they say and do. Little things that may be overlooked from other people, seem a lot more annoying than they should. Please try and enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and not worry about what may or may not happen with your MIL. (I know that's easily said, by the way, I'm pretty much incapable of that myself!)

Yes. I did say to my DH if they came for 3 weeks then they would have to go somewhere on holiday for the middle week. There are loads of beautiful places they could go which are only a short flight away.

Generally, she is good with my DD and she will take her out for an hour which I do appreciate. Although there have been a couple of occasions during the last visit where I have not liked the tone she has used when talking to my DD when I am not in the room.

Would actually be very difficult to say they could not stay with us if they came over. They know my Mum is coming for nearly 2 months and arrives before the baby is born (I have to have a c section so wont be able to pick up my daughter for about 6 weeks so Mum is coming to help me). My Mum is very different, very laid back and would not dream of trying to take over or tell me what to do. My DH says that as far as MILs go he is glad that she is his!

LC

Its not just a question of being more reasonable here; you are dealing with a controlling and toxic woman here so "being reasonable" does not work. It cannot be just a one way process.

Trying to placate someone like this actually makes them worse. Her own family "knowing what she is like and putting up with it" has given her further rein to cause emotional havoc within it (I note your H's sister and her H have an even more difficult relationship. I am not surprised at all to read that given your MILs behaviours). Her H, your FIL, sounds like a bystander who has acted purely out of self preservation and want of a quiet life so I am not letting him off the hook.

"Although there have been a couple of occasions during the last visit where I have not liked the tone she has used when talking to my DD when I am not in the room".

That to me is another warning sign. I would actually be wary of leaving your MIL with your DD at all, at the very least without you being present. If she is toxic to her other family members then she will likely be the same towards her granddaughter as well. These types of problems can easily become generational ones. She could well be saying unkind things about you to your DD.

Her relations with her other family members seem fraught to say the least. Such people are often emotionally damaged individuals with deeply rooted problems (it often starts in childhood and her own parents probably treated her badly). However, you are not responsible for her. She has actively chosen to act like this.

I feel for your H in all this as well, its no fun at all having a toxic parent whatsoever along with a Dad who is acting as a bystander within the overall dysfunction.

You and your H both need to set firm and clear boundaries with this woman and her H even though it is patently clear she is not getting the concept of boundaries at all.

I would also suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward as a starting point.

Thanks Attila, you have given me lots to think about.

My FIL does say things to stop her if he is aware of all thats going on, so will my DH which is why she usually tends to do it whilst they are out of ear shot!

Am pretty sure she had a good childhood but as you say she is choosing to act like this.

Is interesting that you say she could be saying unkind things about me to my DD. I don't think she has but I do know that she has done exactly that to her other grandchildren about my SIL and husband.

I know my DH is in a really difficult position but I realise now that I can't make it all ok!

Thanks every one, you have really helped me to see it all more clearly

If she's done it to your SiL then if she hasn't yet it's likely she will IMO. She sounds vile.

What does your DH get out of this relationship? How does having her in his life benefit him? I'm not saying that you need to cut her off, but if telling them they can't stay with you sparks an issue then perhaps that's the perfect time to state that her behaviour is unreasonable. Do you have Skype? Maybe having a conversation with her, both of you, so that nothing can be misconstrued / misrepresented?

In the long run, though it sounds harsh (and said from a very distant viewpoint) if it all hits the fan in a big way it sounds like you'd all be better off without such negativity in your lives.

Your mother is coming to help you after major surgery.

That is entirely different to having two visitors-one of whom is extremely rude to you.

"When are you going to start doing as you are told?"

Seriously-and your husband thinks it´s OK to have this woman in your house?

No way-she can see baby when/if it´s convenient to you.

You can expect them to stay in a hotel because she is rude!

Can you have someone else on your side to stay at the same time? I know your DH is on leave but some other family member to back you up and be another body around when MIL is with DD?

Your dh needs to grow a pair and start dealing with her antics. She's his family, not yours.

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy and thank your lucky stars that for most of the time she's 14 hours away!

i don't think you have to explain yourself to her. she gets to stay in a hotel. that's the way it is. don't enter into a discussion about what your mum will be doing.

what a nightmare. i think you're doing all the right things, so carry on as you are.

but you are absolutely entitled to set your boundaries and she will just have to lump it.

Good grief, you poor thing. No wonder DH and his sibling have left the UK.....

But seriously, she doesn't need to come as soon as the baby comes, your DH needs to stand up to her and give her what for. Your mum is coming to help, not stir and wind up, so if MIL can't behave better, then she can't come. She won't change so even if she says (unlikely) don't worry, I'll be good etc, a bad one is always a bad one.

Wish I could help you more. Never been faced with such a situation. How very rude and vile she is.

Good luck, hope things go ok.

LC,you poor love,and you are pregnant,i know what you are going through,my MIL was like that,she still is but its a bit better.

Right from the start,she was not happy with the choice her son had made,i was definately the wrong wife for her son,when i got pregnant,she didn't congratulate me,i have shared this here on MN so many times,when she met me the third time,her question was how many people in my family were HIV positive,because i might give it to her son if i had been in contact with my brother or sister,

there is lots,i started by refusing to go to her house,well never got invited anyway,she would take DH for a meal every saturday,without me and that suited me fine,to make matters worse she would talk about how much she hated people from other countries coming into her country and doing nothing,expecting the taxpayer to take care of them,that she hated this race,which i am and i would just walk away from the table,

after a while my husband developed balls,told her that if she wanted a relationship with him then she had better behave,but each time we were left alone the third degree would start,and all bout money,she has millions and was scared that after she died her money would be given to my family by DH and she told him so to which he replied disinherit me,,

then one day she cried to my BIL,DH's twin,that she was not going to be allowed to see her GC,i asked my DH if i could talk,that is when it all came out,i said it all,i stood my ground,i told her which grandchild are you talking about,you haven't congratulated me,but i also told her not to expect anything from me,that if she wanted to see her son she could do it without me,,

things got better after i stood my ground,and with the arrival of our DD she just acted like nothing had ever happened,may i say her other son moved to singapore,she followed him there,so she spends 6months in asia with him,giving him a hard time,then 6months with us giving us a hard time,thats how controlling she is,

why hijack your thread LOVECHOCOLATE,ITS BECAUSE I KNOW IF YOU STAND UP TO HER YOU MIGHT GET SOMEWHERE,but make it a once off thing,not all the time because seriously it is your husband's issue to deal with his family and for you to deal with your own,,

oh,the tears,she uses them a lot ,they used to work before my husband met me,i am not a crier,so he realised that he was being manipulated,,i hate tears that are shed for manipulation,

"When are you going to start doing as you are told?"

Erm.... well, as you're not her Or anyone's) small child, never!

Your MIL sounds really vile.

I think you and your dh need to be firm and tell them that you are not up to it - they can come for a week maximum -it's then up to them if they want to combine it with a holiday elsewhere to make the most of the flight.

Thanks everyone for all your input. I really appreciate it. I have been thinking about it alot the last few days and have had a really good chat with my DH about it. Thought you might be interested in what we are going to do....

He had not realised it had got so bad for me. He said he was making no excuses for his Mums behaviour as he knows what she is like but does think I am a bit too sensitive about it (I made it clear I did not think I was).

I have made the compromise that if they want to come here they can stay with us BUT he must take the time off work whilst they are here, if they are coming for longer than 2 weeks then they must go somewhere else for a few days and if she steps out of line I will tell her (nicely but firmly that I wont be spoken to /treated that way). My DH will back me and if she starts the silent treatment/ sarcastic comments they will be asked to leave and go to a hotel. My DH will then deal with it from then on. He says he would expect her to apologise to me and we will take it from there. Firm boundaries will then be put in place and she will have ONE chance only.

We are definately agreed that we do not want it to come between us. And maybe it does all need to come to a head in order to improve.

I was really concerned that my DH would start to resent me if I stopped a relationship with his Mum. He knows that I have acted reasonably all along and says he would only start resenting me if I was unreasonable. That makes me feel so much better!

I feel much better about it all. Thank you again for all your advice/insights

LC,

I am encouraged by some of what I read in your most recent post namely that this woman won't come between you two.

I still would not have told H that they can stay within your home though primarily because of her previous behaviours. Also your H taking time off work eats into any holiday time that you may want to share together.

I do not excuse your H's behaviour at all and he should have realised what it was like for you re her far sooner but when you've had a lifetime of such conditioning it is very hard to change views and this is perhaps why he thought you were sensitive (for what its worth I think you have acted reasonably throughout and not too bloody sensitive at all actually!). He still needs to grow a spine though with regards to his mum and properly stand up to her. His primary loyalty is now or should be to you and not his mum.

Just acting reasonably is simply not enough when dealing with such toxic people. Firm boundaries need to be in place before they arrive. If it comes to a head as it may well do relations will likely deteriorate further rather than improve. This is because she will blame you for it all. Be prepared also for more tears on her part if asked to leave and she subsequently developing previously unknown health conditions.

BTW she will never apologise for any sarcastic comments etc because she feels she has done nothing wrong. You need to remember as well that toxic people really do take no responsibility for their actions but are more than wont to blame others for their own failings.

Do read Toxic Inlaws written by Susan Forward as it could well help you further.

Just thinking, Attila, it's possible that rather than being treated badly by her own parents, MIL was treated a bit too nicely, ie spoiled rotten and led to believe her word was law. It's still bad parenting although no doubt it made her happy at the time!

She does seem to think everyone except her is a small, rather naughty toddler.

Attila,

I have certainly realised my DHs reactions are different to mine, SIL and her DH where as we get angry by his Mums actions he seems to laugh it off/ let it go over his head.
When I met my DH he had hardly any confidence and is still very quiet and finds it hard to socialise in large groups He put it down to having a Mum who tried to force him to be sociable. Am glad to say he is more confident now and is trying to be more sociable.

I had a very violent, alcoholic father and I did not start to get any confidence in myself or realise the extent of the control/abuse we put up with till I was in my 20s and well away from him! I hardly spoke as a child because of him.

I agree that DH is so used to her behaviour he has come to accept it not as 'normal' behaviour but thats what his Mum is like. When I told him about his Mum saying to me "When are you going to do as you are told" Firstly he said I had not told him that before (definately had) and then he said that he would have reacted differently and laughed at her. No comment on the fact that its not acceptable in the first place. How do you get someone to see it when they are conditioned?! He passes some of it off as her sense of humour that is not funny rather than manipulative/ controlling behaviour badly covered up as humour.
I will read the book you suggest and have a look at the parent version for DH.

And Annie, you got it in one, she talks to all her 'family' as if they are small, rather naughty toddlers!