Access?

[2blessed2bstressed]

Can anyone offer any advice as to how my dp can best proceed with seeing his kids when his ex has announced that she's "not going to make them see him any more, if they don't want to"?
This is kind of a continuation of a thread I started in AIBU last week - where I asked about distancing myself from his children at the moment because of all the fighting and carrying-on that was going on with dp, his ex, and their kids.
Dp has had good relationship with them (9 and 12), but sadly, not with his ex. at all. They had huge barney a couple of weekends ago and he hasn't seen the kids since. He texted her earlier to ask if he could have kids for tea, and the reply was, "well I'll ask them, but they probably won't want to". Obviously I don't know for sure, but I can't help thinking that the question may be phrased in such a way as to not make it a very appealing proposition for them, so what to do for the best?

he could buy them a mobile phone and organise it that way? and speak to them about their day etc

oh dragonfly, eldest has mobile phone (that dp tops up weekly), but it's not always them that answer - sometimes ex takes it and hurls abuse.

Can your DP not arrange with the mother of his children set days/weekends when the children can come to your place? This is often a better arrangement for the children as well. It gives them a consistency that ensures a stable relationship with both parents.

There is no point in texting partner about changed arrangements on the cuff of the moment as it's probably seen as disruptive and controlling. This can really only be done if both mum and dad are on friendly terms post divorce.

Sorry that should be 'ex partner'.

Gah! I'll get me message finished eventually...

His expartner cannot withhold custody arrangements already in place unless for good reasons. If no compromise can be gained then the only option is to go to court.

They had an agreement that he has them every other weekend, and one evening a week for tea - and the occasional "extra", say, for example there was something on at the theatre that he wanted to take them to, or a sponsored event at work..stuff like that. But since they had this big row, his ex has said that the kids don't want to see him and she isn't going to make them.
I wasn't there when they were fighting, but sadly the kids were. The youngest was tearful and distressed, and the eldest was shouting at both of them - not to stop, but to add in their bits of opinion [sceptical]. So maybe they are a bit worried about upsetting the parent they live with and have decided it's best not to rock the boat? It'll be such a shame if this all ends up in court. Dp only just finished paying solicitor for sorting out parental rights and responsibilities.

Bah! I wanted to put this face in there

Oh blessed, no advice to give, just empathy as my DP is in exactly the same position. He so regrets sorting out financial side of divorce (during which amicable every other weekend with DC, who are 100 miles away so no possibility of midweek) and only then trying to formalise contact with DC when exW became increasingly difficult.

I think some women just use the DC to get at exH and lose sight of the need to respect that DC's relationship with their father is not one they should meddle with after family breakdown, if there is no reason to. It is spiteful and DC suffer in long run. DP unable to fathom where animosity has come from as he was the one who was rather suddenly asked to leave, quickly followed by exW initiation of divorce proceedings. Probably relates to exW's father deserting family when she was young, and this is her way of getting back at father. Who knows?

He's tried to appeal to exW's better nature with conciliatory letters etc (she will not answer phone to him, and he now only has address for her and DC, in addition to DC mob numbers, which they often fail to answer) to no avail, and is increasingly frustrated by her behaviour (as well as lack of time with DC and hence fragmentation of his relationship with them) - no one at home when he arrives to collect DC as arranged (and once police called), DCs presents 'never arriving', texts from DC cancelling arrangements when he is en route, and when he has seen then (about 6 quick lunches this year, no week in the summer) he's always made to wait a couple of hours at station before they arrive. He's suggested to DC about doing things, they've been excited, he's bought tickets etc., all seems fine, then receives 1 line letter 'they will not be going to x,y,z). At vast expense and anguish, he's resorted to trying to get a court order with final hearing next month; still not terribly hopeful as DC now 10-13, and thinks it will all hang on the judge he gets (in preliminary trials there seems to have been no consistency in the direction of things). Statements from exW simply state 'it interferes with DCs' social life', so like in your situation, lack of contact is made to appear the wishes of the DC, who DP is sure have been rather manipulated to tow the line with their mother's wishes. It's very important to DP that DC will know that he has done everything to try and see them frequently.

Wish I could be more positive, and hope your DP will have a happier outcome. I can only imagine how very sad it makes him.

He's just phoned to say that no, they're not coming to his for tea, he was almost in tears as he feels (probably rightly) that the longer he goes without seeing them, the less bothered they'll be about it. I guess that they probably are wanting to go and hang out at the park and play at friends houses rather than going for tea with boring old dad, but surely ex should realise that this is a really crap way of behaving, and that actually she damm well should be "making" them see him. Grrrr

I'm so sorry for your DP (and for you). I've seen lots of actual tears, heartbreaking. It's not about boring old dad vs friends (of course latter get more and more attractive as DC get older); surely they can see dad and friends (that's how it works with my exP and me; DC spending one night a week and alternate weekend with him come rain or shine, and that means which ever parent DC are resident with fitting in as far as possible with DC's plans re seeing friends).

Maybe this is a temporary stance by your DP's ex, but my second-hand advice Ii.e that of an onlooker) would be for him to take some action now rather than for the current situation be the norm. No experience of mediation, but perhaps this should be suggested, but failing that perhaps he should seek a court order, funds permitting. For latter, children will need to give statements and as they are not so young these will carry enormous weight. In my DP's experience, his attempts over 6 months to reach an agreement before resorting to court has worked to his disadvange; he has seen so little of his DC for the past year (not for want of trying), reflected in DCs' statements, and he considers DCs' statements were hugely influenced by his ex (they were taken in DCs' home). Also, court process is not quick (DP began process last Dec).

Again, so sorry that he will not have DC for tea.

'become the norm'

See, that's my worry undermyskin - I'm guessing that the kids are being influenced by their mum. They tried mediation a few years back apparently (before my time ), and she was very pleasant and agreeable until about 5 mins after the meeting when she reverted to her normal self.
Dp will find the money if he has to seek legal help because he feels so strongly about it, and he loves his kids and wants to spend time with them.
Her parting shot today was that she's contacting the CSA to have maintenance payments increased since he's not having the kids!

Let's hope these are idle threats in the heat of the moment. But very unjust, given that he is very willing and wants to have DC. Again no expertise, but I think the CSA will only have made adjustments to payment to main carer if DC resident with other parent for 2 nights a week.

My DP knows that the DC are heavily influenced by their mother (one DC told him as much and felt they had to 'side' with mother). On a visit to pick up DC shortly after split, he noted he had been clipped from all the family photographs in the kitchen. His hope now is that through the court he will be awarded enforceable contact with DC, and that will be the start of rebuilding his relationship with them (rather than just a father who takes them out to lunch occasionally; and is also good for a text requesting money).

I wonder if you also find yourself in a difficult position; always wanting to be supportive, but not to become too involved?

Precisely. I really don't want to be involved, and ex has made it v clear it's none of my business - which it ain't, that's ok - but I want to support dp, plus I genuinely feel that his kids can only benefit from his slightly calmer and routine following parenting.

Has he joined Families Need Fathers? They are an excellent organisation with local meetings and a helpline, as well as an excellent website.

Your DP could represent himself in court, with the help of a Mackenzie Friend, which would save thousands. He could also apply for an interim order to restore the level of contact.

Whilst it sounds as though the mother may be controlling access to the children to punish your DP, he also has to acknowledge that seeing their parents have a huge row in front of them would be very upsetting - he needs to make sure he does not get drawn into any more arguments.

It is a valid point about how arguing in front of the children will be upsetting, but however regretable this is, the equation should not be 'we argue = you do not see the DC'

He is so upset about losing his temper in front of the kids, he deeply regrets it, and he really doesn't behave like that normally - I think he's just at the end of his tether.

this is blatant parent slienation

sorry,but he needs to file a c1 in court for contact. he can self represent to keep costs down,but he's right,this will get worse the longer its left

www.wikivorce.com child residency/contact forums can help. some good people on there to help

he has had good contact so far,this now needs enforcing,and quickly. it should be straightforward unless she makes allegations,but he needs to act now so dc dont become alienated

Thanks so much for the links - I'll get him to have a look when he gets home from work. Hate all this!