Emotional stress / hormones from women

[EngineeringMike]

Ok, I promise to God I'm not trolling here, I'm genuinely interested in a female perspective. There are a lot of discussions on emotional abuse by men and their behaviour, and I wanted to address something that me and a lot of my male friends have experienced.

Essentially, a lot of my friends and I have experienced with the DP/DW what I would describe as emotional stress. Our partners are lovely, except for irregular periods when they cry, scream, and are generally quite unreasonable, not necessarily at certain times of the months. My friends say we love our partners, but find this quite difficult to deal with.

How do we deal with it. We want to help, and we don't want to be put in the position of thinking "women are just crazy". Have we just made bad choices in partners, or can we help?

I thik you are talking about 2 differnt things. the Emotional abuse which is regularly taleked about on forums by mumsnet (which can be something both men and women do) is not the same as the emotional episodes you are talking about in your OP.

sorry - typing so fast I left out loads of letters.

Mike - what do you understand by 'emotional abuse' in the context of men in relationships emotionally abusing women? I think your understanding of it is possibly incorrect. When we talk about emotional abuse we don't mean losing tempers and getting upset or stressed.

Shouting AT someone is totally different to upset and crying purely out of frustration.

And OF COURSE there are abusive women as well as abusive men.

Have you said what the 'everything' is that is getting on top of all these emotional women?

I think there are some really valid points made here Mike and no-one is saying it's all mens fault but rather you have asked a question and people are trying to answer truthfully.

I think as a general comment women tend to bottle things a bit more whereas men will get angry immediately. By bottling things up sometimes it just takes one more small thing for everything to errupt IYSWIM? I find myself doing this but usually because my DH is very dismissive of the small things that irritate me and can be really quite patronising. This results in me saying nothing about it but it will have annoyed me, subsequently a series of these 'events' will eventually blow up and so what might have seemed like a small irrational thing to you could have been months worth of small things to your DP.

booyhoo

"it is very clear you wish to blame your partner's behaviour on her hormones (what a cliche)"

Far from it

"When she is screaming, she is screaming because she has a problem. a problem taht is not going to be solved by rolling your eyes and saying "she is hormonal" the best way to solve it is to say this is unreasonable behaviour. i want to sort this out but i can only do it if you talk to me and tell me what the problem is. then you have to listen and work out a solution."

Isn't that roughly what I've been saying?

i understand what you mean by disproportionate reaction.

i will give you an example of something that was often thrown back at me by my EXp.

we had a hard time settling into living together as he is in the forces and only had alternate weekends at home. so when he was home for xmas leave one year i was getting increasingly frustrated at the lack of help he was giving me in the house and with the dcs. i had asked many times for general help and specific help. he would do something once but need reminded everyday that for example the washing needs hung out. to me it stands to reason that if you wear clothes everyday you need to wash and dry them everyday. this is just one example. so this was all building up inside me. i was getting increasingly pissed off and resentful of having to think of everything, do everything, tell him how to do normal things etc. so, we went grocery shopping. he kept asking do we get this, surely we don't need that, that is too expensive etc. then we got to sausages and i asked him to grab a packet of sausages. he asked which ones,beef or pork, herbs or spicy. i exploded. i yelled, just pick some goddamn sausages. and then i said. "that's it. I'm leaving you can do the shopping yourself."

now to anyone else, that was a mad hormonal woman shouting at her poor partner about something really trivial. but you have read the back story. what do you think it was? and btw i was being unreasonable to shout at him. i know that.

actually, i don't think that it is irrational to show emotion. i think it is perfectly normal & shows that that person feels relaxed enough with you to bare all, not just be polite & distant.

i don't like to make generalisations, but it does seem that men will just 'withdraw' and become unavailable - emotionally or physically, when something irritates them. to me, that is completely ridiculous, you can't solve a problem by pretending it's not there, it will fester and make everything worse.

perhaps men should be glad that women are able to show their emotions - it often brings out a response in their partner & leads to discussing problems that exist.

and perhaps women should see the positives of men withdrawing - it can give you both a chance to cool off & look at things objectively before discussing something.

neither way of dealing with a problem is either wrong or illogical - they are both different. i suspect that actually, when not making sweeping generalisations, the truth is that men and women are both capable of either response, and that individual couples need to work out which is better for them.

it sounds like you & your friends have been harbouring resentment & bitching about your wives behind their backs. how very rational, that will really make for a better marriage.

your thread title says emotional stress/hormones from women. i do believe you wish to blame this behaviour on hormones otherwise it would have not been your thread title.

I don't think men (even on MN) generally get accused of "emotional abuse" if they occasionally lose their temper or sulk. They tend to get accused of it if they do it on a regular basis, and/or do it manipulatively to control a woman's behaviour.

I would agree that, on some occasions, a woman can behave in an equally abusive way, using her "moods" to try to control a man.

But I think we have to make a distinction between those abusive behaviours and the "normal" ups and downs of relationships - men reacting to stress by shouting, but then apologising for their reaction, and women reacting to stress by crying, and then apologising for having got so worked up about it, are just ordinary parts of life. I don't think anyone on MN is saying that those things, as part of a generally-decent relationship, are emotional abuse.

btw, emotional abuse is completely different. abuse (of any kind) can often be based on 'normal' behaviour, but it is when this behaviour is used to control another person so that they lose control over their own lives & bodies.

ie, it is totally normal for a partner to want sex, it is abuse for a partner to force or coerce sex.
it is totally normal for a partner to get angry and have an argument. it is abuse if their anger is so frightening that fear of upsetting them controls their family's behaviour.

I've never found hormones to be responsible for me being tearful and shouty. What I do find being hormonal can do is lower my tolerance for the normal daily round of crap.

The problem that many women have is we expect men to act like adults and take responsibility for their own actions and the daily running of the house and family. In reality what appears to happen is many men are fine until children come along and suddenly they absolve themselves of any responsibility. Even if they've kept up their side and done half of the housework pre children, it's amazing how may simply lose the ability to see a full bin or a pile of ironing as they suddenly change their partner's status from "partner" to "mother" and thereby responsible for all the things that their own mothers did.

Your wife says things are getting on top of her. Listen to what quiddity says. That's what your wife means.

I agree with all the above posts, Mike's included. In averagely sane, only-averagely-fucked-up people, outbursts are almost always due to frustration. If your missus goes into meltdown because you forgot to get any milk - it's not "just because" you forgot the milk.

It might be that the day cannot proceed as planned, so she's got to readjust everything (so feels as you would, if a crucial component of your working day was missing). Or maybe you've 'forgotten' twenty little things she depended on you for, and she's let it go nineteen times already. Maybe she knows one of your children is going to demand cereals in the next half hour - and there's no milk.

I bet it's the same when you blow up over something apparently trivial at work, home or play. ("Blowing up" includes sulking, withdrawing and snapping, btw.) If you're a football fan, wouldn't go "Uuuh!" the first time a striker misses the goal; "Aargh!" the next time; "Grrr!" the third time - and get really quite shouty if it happens yet again?

The main thing is to hear the frustration. Making "Don't be silly" noises will obviously add to it. Try to empathise. Do something to make it better if you can (eg, get the milk) but don't assume doing something's always required. Some frustrations are better dealt with by sympathy. When the meltdown's over, you can try & piece together the buil-up. This will help you both avoid similar frustrations in uture.

Hmmm, dirty keyboard. Uuuh!

I think, Mike, that even in households where the (male) partner thinks he is pulling his weight you will often (not always) find that the organisation and remembering/control of the kitchen calendar with all the family things on it/making sure everything happens/milk gets bought/weetabix doesn't run out/gym kit in school on the right day/etc, etc, etc (I could write a book on the things I remember) is with the woman. That is the stress. Male partner may do lots of things when asked but it would be much easier if they just did them - like checking whether the wash is finished if they're left in the house when it's running and then hanging it out, rather than female partner getting home and having to say "now could you empty the machine and hang it all out".

I suppose that's a long-winded way of saying male partners need to SHOW SOME INITIATIVE.

If a man can hold down a job and remember his own social life then he can apply initiative to home too. Whether women are SAHM or WOHM they do a full time job and they don't need another baby/child to look after. There isn't much excuse for an adult not to exercise brain. That sounds harsh, but think of it this way: if you failed to take your tools/papers/car keys/to work, or left a sloppy mess for others at work to clear up after you, missed key meetings or appointments, didn't give your co-workers credit for what they did or failed to work as a team, supporting each other, how long do you think you'd have a job for? I reckon it wouldn't be that long. Dealing with home is just the same. Yes there is often a project manager at work, but I bet they get paid for it.

Maybe that analogy will help you understand that sometimes, we've all just had enough of having to run absolutely everything and do all the thinking. And then a seemingly little thing will precipitate a huge meltdown.

Best of luck in trying to understand and sort the issue, there's a lot of good stuff in the thread to help you.

Mike I haven't read the other responses, but I can tell you that I turn from a nice, calm, laid back person, to a bitchy, short-tempered, not very nice person right around mid-cycle.

Since coming off the pill, it's been really bad.

And my poor partner says he does find it really difficult for that period of time.
As has my closest colleague!

I'm aware I'm like it, but I can't help it - I get really angry and irritable. I'm trying to use diet etc to deal with it though.

Good point, hairy. We're making it all sound completely rationsl because most of the time, it is. The "but" is quite a big one, though. Hormones influence personality far more than most people realise (trust me, my endocrinologist explained it!!) They affect men just as much, as you will know if you've ever had a body-building pal who overdid the enhancers.

Women's lives include more frequent natural and medical hormone changes than men's. Pregnancy, ordinary life cycle, IVF, change in contraception, common disorders like PCOS and endometriosis - all change the hormonal balance, resulting in a different mood 'profile'. If anything like that's going on, your partner should know enough to be able to warn you & make contingency plans - but that depends on her medical practitioner. If she's not made aware of possible changes, she can't make you aware.

An unbelievably sane, confident, consistently serene friend had thyroid treatment. She became weepy, sensitive, nervy - and started asking, for the first time in her life, "Does my bum look big in this?" Her husband thought she'd turned into his idea of the Wife From Hell (he's not good with female quirks). It was the meds. She went back to her normality once the treatment was done.

This is NOT to say AT ALL that "us women are barmy, it's the hormones you know". Just a heads-up that, if moods change concurrently with a known hormonal change, it can explain the alteration.

i hate when women use 'i've got pmt' to excuse being a bitch. hormones can be incredibly powerful, when i was pregnant i had horrific sicness AND depression. i needed emergency psychiatric help at one point, and it was entirely due to hormones from the pregnancy. the moment dd was born, i stopped being sick & stopped the crying. BUT i did try not to snap & be nasty to people because of it.

i think if someone is upset, their partner should attempt to understand why - whether it's hormones, or grief, or just general fed up-ness, the feelings are valid, and should be respected. i also don't like the gender sterotypes, e.g. women cry, men don't do housework. i thin it is a little dismissive of both genders to just assume that they'll behave in a certain way.

mumtolawyer that was perfect.

"i hate when women use 'i've got pmt' to excuse being a bitch"

With me it's not an excuse, it's a reason. Honestly, I know Im doing it, but I can't seem to help myself. The only solution would be to not interact with anyone for about four or five days.