Why was it ok for me to be spoken to like this?

[maristella]

The other day I arranged to meet my Dad with my son. My Dad has been amazing, he has offered to have my son for as much of the holidays as I have needed in order to be able to work, and I am so grateful.

My Dad asked me to collect DS from a town halfway between us. I have never been to this town, and had searched for a meeting place with car park where we could have a cup of tea etc, but to no avail. I asked Dad for ideas, he said he did not 'bloody know'.
After some encouragement he emailed me the post code for a car park where we could meet.

Any way, using the sat nav I arrived at the destination, and could not find a car park. I drove around the immediate locality and used to sat nav to return to the point where the car park should have been, still could not find it.

I called my Dad on my hands free, he shouted and swore at me. I pleaded with him for more information, he laughed and said I should call him when I've found them, and hung up.
I called him back and pointed out that I had followed the instructions, could not find them, had been driving around and around, and felt particularly worried as DS was with him and I couldn't find them. He yelled the street name down the phone repeatedly. I typed it into the sat nav and found them within minutes.

AS I got out of the car, Dad starts chatting away as if he had not just behaved really bloody horribly. I shook my head and said there was no reason for him to have spoken to me in that way. I went to get DS out of the car. Dad followed me and asked me who the fuck I think I am. I told him to stop it, and that his behaviour was unacceptable. He shouted at me and threw DS' bag into the boot of my car "You've fucking had it".

Once DS had closed his door I literally rounded on my Dad (I know, I know...) I raised my voice and said that he is not to talk to me in that way again, he is not to take the mickey when I am upset because I can't get to my DS, and that he should treat people as he wishes to be treated. He turned around to some shocked people in the car park and apologised, saying his 'daughter is having a turn'. I admit I was fuming at this point, I said "I'm not having a turn, I'm speaking to you the way you have repeatedly spoken to me while I have been desperately trying to find you!" I walked away, he followed me and hissed "You can fuck off". I've spun round like a mad woman and yelled "You can fuck off yourself, don't speak to me like like unless you want to hear it back".

I got into the car and apologised profusely to DS, this should never have happened.
I was shaking really badly. DS is ok, but I feel awful. DS said that when my Dad had started shouting down the phone at me and kept hanging up he felt really stressed.
I drove home feeling so so stressed. As soon as I got home I asked my brother to contact my Dad as I know what my Dad drives like when he's angry, and wanted to know he was home safe. My brother later contacted me wanting to know why I'm such a 'mad bitch', when I asked what I should have done, he did not know.

The fact is my Dad would never have spoken to anyone else like this. He seems to be enraged by any display if apparent inadequacy (particularly by a female). But I wasn't being inadequate. Yes, I'm more easily stressed than usual (have been a non-smoker for a matter of days). In fact every time I've tried to quit he seems to have found a weakness in me and gone on the attack, knowing he's more likely to get a response. He hasn't treated me like this since I was a child though. When I was younger he tried to trip me over if I ever stood up to him verbally. He seems to like to make nasty little digs, and very quietly (behind closed doors) where as my response to behind-closed-doors nastiness is to become very defensive, and very loudly.

I'm sorry for the essay, I have not been sure who to offload to, so I seem to have done it here.

I've been a twat though haven't I?
But why was I on the receiving end of this in the first place?
Am I being over sensitive?

I have my fingers in my ears, rocking gently. I can't believe your dad spoke to you like that. I only ever heard my dad swear twice (and only one was the F word just before he died and I think he was just trying it out while he had the chance). I hate to hear people swearing - funnily enough, I find it more offensive from men and from older people.

Your dad will not change - he just won't. He can dish it but can't take it (as is often the way with bullies). I would apologise (you are above this - and he pushed you, in fact, I am suprised you didn't lamp him) and agree with MadAbout. He has to be told that he had exactly what he gave you and why does he think that he is immune from that kind of treatment?

How much are you reliant on him? Do you really need him to look after the little one - do you really want him being a role model?

why did he send you just the postcde of the parking lot in the first place? Why not the street address as well or at least some clear guidelines on how to find it? It's as if he didn't mean you to find it. Most odd.

I have no idea what it was all about, was it because he didn't want to return ds or was expecting more of a thank-you that a cup of tea somewhere?

ahhh, wahwahwah, bless your father for "trying out" the f-word before he died. That is so terribly sweet.... and really ought to shame the people who fling f*s about with aggression!

He used to say that people who swore just showed themselves up as having a limited vocabulary.

I think his behaviour was appalling. How are you meant to know where a car park in a strange town is, when he's given you a postcode that isn't for the carpark! Why couldn't he give you the street name, or suggest meeting at a particular large shop, so that you could park anywhere?

I couldn't cope with someone talking to me like that. To be honest, I wouldn't want to see him or your brother for a very long time and I'd want to keep any children away from both, too.

It was not OK for you to be spoken to like this and while it was not ideal to retaliate in front of your DS, I totally understand why you did, and at least you stood up for yourself.

Your dad sounds really abusive. I really would avoid relying on him in future- it sounds like the power went to his head.

You can't change people like this either to be honest.

Supercherry is right. Some people just thrive on being aggressive, and enjoy any opportunity to "vent" whatever irritableness they feel as a general state of being.

They are to be pitied, not indulged, and avoided - where possible.

He must be deeply unhappy, somewhere deep down inside. Don't waste any more of your time putting up with it Mariestella, he makes his own choices how to behave.

I do understand your sadness though.

Your father is a bully, and you have been conditioned to placate him throughout your childhood. Your brother has learnt his attitude to females from your father.

I tell you what, I'd be making alternative childcare arrangements from now on, and setting very strict guidelines if I let my dad have my son in the future. No meeting in strange town car parks.

You know, I think it's so sad that your brother thinks it is in any way OK to ring you up and call you a "mad bitch". What a terrible attitude to have, and what language. He needs a good kick up the backside, or possibly he needs to read this thread to understand how upset you were and how threateningly your dad behaved.

I am totally shocked.

If he was like this, and not having been provoked (except that you couldn't find the car park - which is hardly a provocation) I would say he was incredibly abusive and you would be mad to let your ds stay with him.

In other words, it was NOT OK for you to be spoken to like that.

It wasn't ok for you (or anyone) to be spoken to like that.

Like others, I think you have been conditioned to accept this. My lovely Dad is quite impatient and gets easily frustrated but would never speak to anyone in that way.

I think if you want to maintain a good relationship maybe go with the "neither of us should have behaved the way we did.." making it clear that you regret loosing your temper but that you will not tolerate being spoken to like that.

This sounds just my dad - its a game he plays he sets up a situation where he knows that I will become emotional about in some way and then when I do get worried or show vulnerability or other "female" emotions, he likes to belittle me and generally make me feel stupid. Its really unpleasant and I try to avoid him when there is a likelihood of him doing this. Or I have to psych myself up to stand up to him calmly) which sometimes I succeed.

By not giving you the correct information in a way that enabled you to easily find them, I think your dad set this situation up. Probably because you have given up smoking, you are more vulnerable and emotional and reacted whereas you wouldn't have otherwise.

I think that you should not try to apologise just to keep the peace. If you can stand up for yourself now, you might have less to deal with later.

Sounds like your brother is a chip off the old block, maristella. My dad is very domineering & I wouldn't apologise as such if I found myself in a situation like this with him. I would tell him that we were BOTH out of order but that you won't tolerate being treated/spoken to like that. I would tell him that if he feels he has a bone to pick with me he should bring it up calmly & rationally or expect, as you said, an equal response. Good luck!

I agree with mumonthenet, Kirlyovie and didgeridoo.

Ok so you snapped back, but the only other option your dad was giving you was to just shut up and take it. IMVHO you have done very little wrong.

He had absolutely no right whatsoever to use language like that in front of your DS, if he was anyone else, would you have allowed that? Would you have just let it go? I hardly think so.

Step back from him. Don't allow yourself to be put in that situation again.

NO-ONE should be spoken to like that BY ANYONE, and much less their own dad. Your brother has learned to be the same. It's not his fault, it's your dad's. But nothing YOU can do about it.

Stay away from the pair of them.

Bingo Kirlyovie.
It was a passive aggressive set up to create an opportunity to degrade the OP.
Abusive.
Excellent, OP, that you responded in the moment. No apology necessary.

He was being unreasonable.

I wouldn't want my son exposed to that.

You were not wrong to respond that way. Sometimes people need telling (rather than 'placating') or they continue justifying their c*ntish behaviour.

He sounds horrible, bitching about you to your brother.

He should be a strong(minded), mature role model for his kids and yours not some screaming (in public) banshee.

Stick up for yourself, don't feel bad.

Also,
the post event assessment with other family members is like icing on the cake for them. That you did respond outside of their script for the subordinate female will be fodder for them to manipulate at your expense.

you were both out of order.

he shouted and swore. you shouted and swore.

yes i understand the situation brought you to boiling point but that is exactly the justification he would use to explain why he spoke to you like that. you both exploded.

but, i am guessing that this is normal behaviour for him. i sense in your post that this was not a reall shock to you and that you are used to him responding to stress like that. in your shoes i would wait to evrything has calmed down and then ring him or go and see him to tell apologise for resorting to the behaviur you did and then to tell him that you wil no longer tolerate being spoken to like that. furthermore your sone will not be with him until he has promised that he will alter his behaviour.

i speak as someone who did similar a few months ago as other posters may remember.

my son fell at my parents' house ad my dad reacted in his usual way of shouting and swearing at me. for the first time io just snapped at him and shouted back "who are you shouting at" i shouldn't have shouted but it was enough to make him ralise that his behaviour was ridiculous.

you need to tell your dad that it is not acceptable to speak to people like taht and that you will be unable to be around him if he does.

you have all given me a lot of food for thought. i do tend to slink back and chew over the feedback, mull it all over. but this has all really upset me.
i know i should never ever have responded in the way that i did, but i'm still so shocked at having been treated in that way.
seriously though, what is it with men trying to belittle woman, even those in their families? and men convincing each other at the drop of a hat that the woman who stands up for herself is blantantly barking?

...and you are leaving your son with him?....

It's not OK for you to be sworn at - you're only feeling guilty because your dad and then your brother played the 'crazy female' card.

No one in my family would ever shout and swear like that - ever. It's not normal. And if they ever got annoyed they'd most likely apologise afterwards.

Stand your ground and don't apologise. It's hardly a crime to ask for directions. And it's certainly not a crime to stand up for yourself when someone is being abusive.

my brother spoke to me like this once, and thats it, in 2 yrs i haven't spoken one word to him.
I won't have it, anyone like that i can not have around me, at all, you should set yourself some standards about who you want to be around and who you want to influence your DS, i would implore you to not let your dad have your DS again, ever.
IMHO, you have done nothing wrong except fall into that trap of ignoring how toxic our parents were and feeling laden with childhood guilt.
He has always been like this, he is a bully, and has taught your brother to treat women in the same way.
both would be off my visiting list forever a number of years as they will not change.

I wouldn't want my son growing up thinking that he can treat someone this way.
Men like this make me feel physically sick.
im sorry he did this to you, i can not imagine what my reaction would of been.

DO NOT APOLOGISE!

If you want to learn more about this behavior, I recommend the book " Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. The basic point is that this behavior is built on a foundation of disrespect for people/women/children (whoever the 'target' is). And that this behavior is a choice; as in does he choose to treat his boss like that, or his mother?

The book is easy to read, a real page turner.