Advice needed - any teachers on here ?

[argeybargey]

I need some advice how to handle this.
Dd1 goes to a state primary that is very good in many ways that I consider to be important (including pastoral care).(Also Estyn (Welsh equivalent of Ofsted)grade 1's across the board.

However, lately Dd1 has started using speech patterns that we do not use at home. Most notably 'I've give' 'I've took' 'I've broke' and 'I've chose' :(

Two teachers that I know (one teaches at the school on supply and has taught my daughter in past)and one who doesn't (but who I mention in this as I am wondering if she is typical of teachers nowadays?)speak in this way. Also many of the classroom assistants and probably some of her little school friends do also.

I worry that dd1 is going to struggle later on if she is getting such mixed messages as to what is correct. I do correct her (which I don't enjoy doing)and I am getting quite angry about the situation(for her,not at)as she says 'but my teacher says it like that'- in her head it must be right if her teacher says it that way, and she is getting confused that I am saying no, actually, this is the right way.

I just don't know what to do. I don't want to hurt the feelings of the classroom assistants (who my daughter adores); if I say anything I will just come across like a raging snob. Yet I worry about the implications not just for learning sentence construction/grammar later on but also if she wants to go into certain careers... or is it normal now not to correct bad grammar at school ? I would appreciate any help on this please ; I know that it is a sensitive issue, how people speak, and I do not wish to offend anybody reading this as this is certainly not my intention.

That kind of thing is regional where I am. My dds have not picked it up though. Just keep correcting, I'd say.

You might get more responses if you post in 'education'.

I think what they hear at home will be what they eventually stick to, so wouldn't worry too much. Keep correcting though, esp. grammar

It happens in the college I work in and it makes me cringe. When I've mentioned it to managers, they avoid it, as though they would be politically incorrect to say something.

However, in your situation I would definitely complain to the head teacher. If he/she is well spoken then it will have been noted. There is no way your daughter should be taught to speak like that - it's ridiculous! If the head teacher brushes it off, I would say that I would speak to the governors.

I'm not sure what can be done with the present staff, because a language pattern is so ingrained, but the matter has to be raised.

You don't say how old your child is, and whether he is also learning English - guess so! - (You are in Wales, right?), but my son who was brought up bilingual, it's normal at a certain age to get stuff mixed up, it all falls into place soon, don't worry!

My son is 19, is bilingual and has had 3 more languages at school, which he can get by in! (yes, we live in europe ;) )

• I just realised that I have posted this under Relationships : ) Oh dear. I will try and post it under Relationships.

MOSP - Yes, it is something of a regional thing here too - especeially 'It's broke' - which does add an extra complication to not only raising the issue, but also to trying to prevent it becoming ingrained in dd1 speech as its use is so widespread...

Atswintwolengths - yes, yes and yes again - I do feel that it isn't politically correct to raise it yet if I don't . . well, what's the alternative? :(

The head is very well spoken and I have noticed that they have put my dd1 into class of a very competent teacher (there were two possible classes)who is also the deputy head (and I am guessing here)is probably well spoken (I have never really spoken with said teacher though). I am relieved that they didn't put dd1 into the other class where the teacher is well loved and by all accounts very good - but speaks in the way I mentioned in previous post.

It is still summer hols here and I am just hoping that with this new teacher, just the one classroom assistant and with me continuing to correct her at home that things should improve. . . am really hoping that they do so that I can avoid having to approach the school ... hopefully it'll be nipped in the bud with new class, fingers crossed. I posted today as I have had to correct two 'I've took's and one 'i've give' today :(

Doh. I mean under Education. It's late and it's been a lonnnnnng day : )

well all the teens I come across seem to be able to be very well spoken at home, Jafakean with their friends and write on their facebooks etc. as if they haven't been 2 skool sins dey wer 5. So I wouldn't worry about it, in the end your DD will have your example from home and will know how she needs to speak at school to be accepted and not bullied as being posh.

I don't get so worried about language use myself, you only have to read Chaucer then Shakespeare to see how much English has changed over the centuries and will probably continue to do so. Thee and thou are not really missed are they?

spot on, Eurostar! FWIW, we are encouraged to correct children in our school, I tend to do it with a slightly more 'sympathetic tone' with "do you mean 'I've taken them' " when they come up with "I've took um miss"
Carry on correcting at home, it will stick in the end. Ensure that your dd is clear about the written form being correct too, regardless of the colloquial terms we use in speech. Try not to get too sad or stressed over it, it's part of 'trying out' things as they grow up :)

:D Eurostar, your post made me smile. I know, I know. . and I've probably got all that to come. I remember changing my speech at school so that I didn't sound 'posh' (sad but true)so I totally get that; it's just the incorrect useage and if I am totally honest hearing 'It's broke' and 'I've give' just makes me CRINGE, I can't stand it. To me that's beyond roughing up your vowels & consonants and chucking in the odd glottal stop so that you don't sound posh and is just in pure WRONG territory. To me anyway. I know what you mean about language continually evolving but there have to be some constants don't there?! I do think of grammar as immutable on certain points - like 'I've given' as opposed to 'i've give' - surely that isn't going to change is it?!
But I will try to chill about it all a bit more(and keep reminding at home). I do think that I would have to approach the school though if it continued, and if they think that I am a raging snob then so be it !

My dd1, when she was 3, spoke beautiful, and very grammatically correct, English. Then she went to nursery and within days was coming out with "It's broke"s.

I just kept correcting her. She is 9 now and speaks much better. It is a regional thing here also. Luckily I don't have to contend with supposedly educated teachers doing it - I would definitely complain if that were the case. How can they teach and mark English without understanding what is correct English?

I agree with templemaiden. It is unacceptable for teachers not to speak in standard english. I am not knocking regional variations but children should be taught in standard english - to speak and write it. I would be complaining to the school if my children were taught by a teacher who did not speak correctly - and I am a teacher. I would also correct my Classroom Assistant if she spoke like that altho' obviously not in front of the children. And no I am not a dragon!

We have a deputy head who says 'Maffs' and 'Efos' (Maths and ethos), etc. Drives me nuts, and it's so hard not to collectively wince in staff meetings when she says stuff like that!

As an English teacher I am shocked that you have heard this language being used by classroom assistants. People always use the excuse that language is an evolving subject but I believe that you earn a lot more respect in later life if you can communicate effectively and this means understanding syntax and grammar.
I am proud to be a little pedantic when it comes to English as I believe it is beautiful and worth preserving!
I think you're right to correct your dd but don't worry too much as children do tend to experiment with language as they grow up. One of my bug bears is hearing people say 'I'm loving it', I blame MacDonalds...

It's about context. You (and the teacher!) need to teach that generally we speak Standard English in formal situations and dialect in other contexts - neither is 'better' than the other. Generally, we would expect teachers to use SE because it is understood universally, however some teachers do choose use some dialect because it helps identify with students (not the choice I make tbh). Some teachers do not feel that education is a formal context I suppose...

Bear in mind that written language can also be different from spoken language - so I wouldn't worry too much about her speech but if her written work is in dialect and remains un'corrected' (as per SE) then I would question with her teacher.