I cant see a way forward with DH

[pippylongstockings]

I feel so very sad. My DH and I have been together for 20 years but right now it feels as if it is all falling apart.

I posted last month in AIBU which probably wasn't the best place as most people said leave him!

Basically in the past we both enjoyed a party lifestyle where recreational drugs were involved however about 10 years ago I had pretty much had enough and put that part of my life behind me. We now have 2 DS who are 6 and 4. But my DH has not hung up his dancing shoes he goes out on a big night out about once a month but in the last few years the nights out have turned into nights and days away from home.

This year it has been terrible - he has gone on a night out the night before our family holiday and didn't come home until 9am when I rang and told him we were leaving without him. Also he went out on a Friday night and didn't come home until 10pm on the Saturday night, when it was my dad's 60th birthday on the Sunday that I was doing all the catering for. Last month I was signed off with a bad back and he went to a festival for the weekend - again not coming home on the Sunday as arranged but turning up at 7pm on the Monday night! This blew up big style as I found out he had taken £300 of our savings to fund his jolly's.

He said he was sorry and that myself and the boys were most important to him and we agreed to try and do things more as a family. This is hard as I work most Saturdays and we are currently trying to do up our house.

Anyway there is another festival this weekend which he said we should go to as a family, I said that we could do this, but it then turned into him going by himself on the Friday night and me and the children meeting him on Saturday.....I said I would rather not bother then as it seemed we were just invited as an after thought, plus I didn't want the kids to see him in a state etc. He has taken this to be he will just go on his own for the whole weekend!

The money aspect is a real consideration we are currently £2k overdrawn in the bank even though I work part-time I am the main wage earner.

Plus in the past he has had seizures because of his drug use.

I feel so sad - it's like drugs, music and so called friends are more important to him than his real life. I don't want to keep on picking up the pieces . The trouble is because he is out so often or sleeping in between, it is getting to the stage where the kids are playing up at him, not wanting him when they are hurt or whatever. I have said that he needs to think about why that is but he said that was really hurtful and he was a good dad!

I feel we are 2 people who were so in love but I can't love him when he is destroying us but he cant' see it.

I can't see a way forward other than seperation.

I think I remember your previous post. I think, sadly, the reality is that your DH is not putting you and the children first. He is putting his own pleasure before your family. Do you think, possibly, he has addiction issues ie alcoholism or drugs or is it just the fun associated with the "jollies"? If it's an addiction issue then, clearly, you will not be able to move forward with your DH unless he is willing to face up to this and get outside help. If it's just that he doesn't want to stop having fun then you can solve this between you but he'll still need to want to change...

pippy

"I posted last month in AIBU which probably wasn't the best place as most people said leave him!"

What did you want people to say, were you surprised by these responses that stated leave?. You are NOT responsible for him ultimately.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

Reading what he is like from your post today the signs are not at all good. All this man is doing now is dragging you, and by turn the children, downwards. You are emotionally as a couple and financially in deep trouble (does he work, I ask this as you said you work part time and are the main wage earner).

He wants the single life and you and your children are a mere afterthought. All this man cares about is his own self.

Seek advice re your own financial position here.

You have a choice here re him ultimately, your children do not.

I'm afraid you are going to get the same answer here.

He proably has some kind of substance dependance problem.

He certainly has an extreme selfishness problem.

You DO have to leave him. You can't love him into behaving like a responsbible husband and father. He has to love you back. He really doesn't, not enough anyway.

Tell him to leave until he is ready to act like a grown up and show some respect for his family.

I remember you

I am sorry, but I will not give you any different answwer than previously

He is an addict, and he will bring all of you down

Now please, don't keep posting this in the vain hope that one person will reply and tell you that you must continue in this relationship (so that you can justify it to yourself)

They won't

If you post asking how best to get this toxic twat out of your life...different story

Good luck to you

"it's like drugs, music and so called friends are more important to him than his real life."

they are - but that to him is real life

"I don't want to keep on picking up the pieces"

so dont. stop doing it. get your own bank account and put your wages in there. he has taken your joint savings to pay for his fun - so you would be justified in ensuring your money goes to you and DCS directly.

ultimately you will be the one left holding the babies and picking up the pieces for them - because he wont - and someone has to; otherwise what? but they have no choice right?

but if he wont take repsonsibility then leave him out of it.

let him go to the festival - but tell him he can't come back til he finds a way to fund his jollies and starts doing something other than sleep/go out.

yes, he can go to the festival

and out of your life

let him live the life of a single man...it is clearly his priority

I wasn't posting so some-one would give me a diferent answer just that topics in AIBU feel to me to be very much one liners - yes leave him he's a fucker - whereas I thought in relationship there would be opportunity for discussion and advice.

Maybe I have just posted too much about the problem and not enough of how I want to move on with my life.

Yes, he works but the job he does is not very well paid partly because of where we live, Devon is fairly shit for wages but also because it is an interesting but poorly paid job! I am the main wage earner as I used to be a manager for a high street bank and although that is not the role I do now they couldn't take my banding away.

Financially, we have a pretty large mortgage and are in the middle of house renovations - so the house is not in a state that we could sell in, but I wouldn't be able to afford to finish it on my own.

I guess I feel I want to make it work because I love him and dispite the going out partying issue we actually get on very well, we wouldn't have been together for 20 years otherwise.

I hate the thought of the putting the kids and myself through the upset and trauma of splitting up, but I can only think that unless we split he will not decide what is most important to him.

It the practcalities I am unsure of - Ask him to move out. Explain to the kids. Explain it to our family. Explain it to friends. Explain it to work. When can he see the kids. Where will he live. Who gets the car. How do I pay the mortgage. Do we go to relationship councilling.

Honestly I know it sounds terrible and wet I am a woman of 40 but right now I just can't think.

Is he actually addicted to drugs, or is he having a crisis about being a full grown up? He is acting extremely imaturely and selfishly - does he have any idea of how hurtful his behaviou is and how he is rejecting you by throwing hiself into partying?

You could try counselling, but in truth, I wouldn't want to continue letting him run up your overdraft with YOUR money on activities that he not only deliberately excludes you from but undermines other family activities by taking part in.

Would he consider counselling?

Does he reciprocate with taking responsibility for the children while you get time off? Add up the number of days and weekends he has been absent on his own, then tell him you are leaving the children with him for the same amount. Then do it.

Also, could you agree a budget for food and household, saving for rennovation (and out that money in a separate account) and then an allowance you can each use for personal choices...and prevent him being able to draw on joint money?

You shouldn't have to manage him as if he was a young teenager, but neither should he be treating the family, and his responsibilities, with such careless contempt.

I think that would be the only way he sees that you mean bussiness.. ask him to stay elsewhere for the time being.

How does this affect the children daddy dissapearing for days.

"He he says myself and the boys are most important"
and i dont doubt thats the truth,but he is an addict.

so without seeing what he has lost and proffesional help. cant see what would make him change?

You need to realise you and your children deserve more. Ask him to show you that you are more important as at the moment actions speak louder than words and his actions tell you he doesn't want to be a husband and a father.

do you want him to change ?

because he will not whilst you continue to enable him living like a single man, fucking off whenever he feels like it, letting you down time and time again...all the while you support him in a druggy lifestyle, like some delinqent teenager

this is a family man with responsibilities, believe it or not

he isn't currently honouring them...and you are complicit by not forcing him to comprehend exactly what he has to lose

are you frightened that if you make him choose his family over his wild lifestyle he will choose the latter ?

if he does...you have your answer

that you will be carrying him, like another child, forever

he behaves like this because you let him - simple as that.

Just tell him you have had enough and have consulted a solicitor and want him to move out.

Let him decide whether you and your kids or the partying take priority. Then you will have your answer.

msb...you and I should sort out a shift pattern

He is not merely 'behaving that way because you let him' that implies this is all the op's fault when it isn't.

I do think you need to give him an ultimatum- tell him what you want from him and then let him decide if he can be that person. Ask him to move out for a while so you can think too. There needs to be no more chances for him, difficult as that may be. You and the children deserve better.

It is very sad op and I feel for you, especially as it seems such a waste of what could be a very happy family unit.

msb & af I agree that to a degree I may be complicit in his behaviour, but also I don't see how me stomping around and grounding him like a teenager is going to make him want to grow up and act like the husband and father I want him to be.

Do you honestly think if I forbid him from going out and take all his money away that is going to make him want to stay in and spend the time with the family with goodwill and good heart ?

I have kind of come to the conclusion that sometimes you end up being different people that want different things. And as sad as it may be I can't force him to be anything else any more than he can force me to be.

In his mind I have changed, I am not the party girl I once was - to me my children are a good enough reason for saying I want a normal life. He on the otherhand can not seem to let go of that other altered reality, he is socialising with people who seem to have both, (although granted most don't have children). I can explain to him until the cows come home, that most people do not do what he does, and that the very fact that he wouldn't want his work, parents etc. to know how he lives should raise questions in his mind about his behaviour.

Last night it all blew up again, I said that I felt he was being very selfish when us as a family are not getting the luxury of same time and money spent with us, that for the last 5 months every time I have had a weekend off I have spent it by myself. He said he wouldn't go and that was to be an end to my evil moods.

We have hardly spoken since, and this morning I have found myslef in floods of tears, especially when my eldest who is 6 said 'It is hard being just one grown up looking after two children isn't it?'

Hi Pippy

Sounds like you are at the 'thinking hard about it' stage - gathering information on practicalities, making plans etc. It is a good think to face the practicalities before you make such a huge decision.

I have been in exactly the same situation. It's hard and horrible and you have my sympathy.

Here are some random bits and bobs

• go to relationship counselling on your own; basically this gives you freedom to rant and explore with someone rational for a while. May help put things in perspective.
• look hard and realistically at your finances. Even if you are in the middle of doing your house up it is sellable. You are earning good money and have two kids - you will be able to afford to live a decent life without supporting him. Go to cab or even a solicitor and get a feel for the realities of the situation
• at some stage he needs to know that you splitting or not is in his hands - if he changes his lifestyle you will stay, if not you will throw him out. Be prepared emotionally for him to choose to leave
• similarly, you need to remember that splitting up is something he has made happen. You may be the person asking him to leave but he has forced you to choose between him and the security of your children and yourself
• divorce is hard on children, but living in a toxic family with a dad who can't take responsibility is hard on children too. Stay or go he is still their dad. and they won't be the only kids with divorced parents in their class

Enough. Here's some tough love: grow a set. He's not lovely, he's taking the piss, using you as a doormat and bank account, and ignoring his lovely dcs. Time to get ANGRY Pippi.

There's no point in issuing more ultimatums: it seems obvious that he sees you as his mum, spoiling his fun, when you do.

You could wait for him to get help for substance abuse/make him do so
You could carry on as you are
Or you could take charge and start to make a life without him.

He doesn't seem able to see the difference between him and the other people he socialises with are your DCs, 2K worth of debt and his lack of earning. That would be a big worry to me.

He does sound like more than a recreational user. You have my sympathies, I know to some extent what it is like.

My first thought it that you re-arrange the finances so that he can't use any of 'your' money (and by that I mean your earnings and your children's money) to fund this life-style.

As Oldenough... says, he's taking the piss and I think you need give him an ultimatum. If he wants to make this work then he has to prove that he is prepared to cut this partying down to just a few times a year or even stop it completely.

I know that people are often quite judgemental about recreational drug use and so for aome it would be the deal-breaker but there are many couples in similar situations who manage to achieve some kind of balance where ther is time for fun but it is limited to once or twice a year and where the 'rules' are set and followed.

Oh that old chestnut, "I guess I feel I want to make it work because I love him and dispite the going out partying issue we actually get on very well, we wouldn't have been together for 20 years otherwise".

You met this man when you were in your late teens/early 20s (someone then who had no real life experience behind her). You've grown up since then, emotionally he's still back there and he does not want to join you in the real adult world.

Both habit and apathy have kept you with this man and look where its got you now.

You need to wake up and fast, take a proper look at what he is doing to you and by turn your children. He is taking you for a fool and you are allowing, yes allowing this man to destroy you all.

"We have hardly spoken since, and this morning I have found myslef in floods of tears, especially when my eldest who is 6 said 'It is hard being just one grown up looking after two children isn't it?"

What does that tell you?. Take heed of this child's words!. Your 6 year old child has more of a handle on this situation than either her weak Mum or deadbeat waster Dad.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?

"I don't see how me stomping around and grounding him like a teenager is going to make him want to grow up and act like the husband and father I want him to be. "

no of course it wont - only he can decide what he wants to be. yu are saying you qwant /need a repsonsible adult partner to lvie with - he wont change at all unless you take steps; he may not change anyway but you giving him an opportunity to know what you expect from him.

but you can set the boundaries (as you would for a teenager) because he is behaving like a teenager. he will decide how to respond.

if you do nothing then you stuck like this for ever.

your six year old is noticing that you do all the work and dad just flits in and out... not having to think about the man when it is like this is liberation.

he may decide he will go off, live with his friends and pop by occasioanlly to visit his dc - fine - but at least you will no longer fund his lifestyle.

he may decide he doesnt want to lose you - so you are in charge here and you have to set the rules.... it is a lot on you - but you are the adult in this family, the only one....

If a six-year-old can evaluate your marriage so clearly, Pippy, you'd better grow up sharpish or your DCs will learn this is how relationships are supposed to be. Moreover, that remark shows your child is empathising with your ADULT problems & responsibilities. Do you know what this means?

Taking a step back: you said "In his mind I have changed, I am not the party girl I once was - to me my children are a good enough reason for saying I want a normal life."

This is true, isn't it? You have changed. He hasn't. There is no shame in becoming incompatible, you know. Disappointment, yes, but it's no failure - just one of those regrettable things.

For the time being, I'd suggest you give him a realistic & do-able fun budget, get off his back and start running your family like the competent mother you are. Let him join in if he can be bothered for now, but don't plan around him or adjust for his absences. Start being a successful single mum, in other words. Look into ways to get your house OK; forget about perfect - go for 'functioning', cut corners and expenses.

One of my family members has lived the way you seem to think it could be done. Their children have quite serious emotional problems. It's one of those lifestyle choices that looks good on a summer weekend, but in reality you need adults to raise children. Not overgrown teenagers.

I'm not down with the addiction thing. I was a party girl for over 20 years and understand that the the shared experience/music/lifestyle thing can be more addictive the drugs.

Did you ever speak about what would happen to your lives when you had DC? What was his view then? Can you remind him of how he was willing to change (presuming he was) at that time and talk about WHY it has not happened?

listen to your 6yo

he is wiser than the both of you put together

PT I completley understand that the shared experience of the other altered reality that a good night our brings can be something that you can't really put into words unless you have experienced it. I don't believe he is addicted to drugs but I think he finds the thrill of a night out etc etc something that he can't let go of.

I have the memories, and I am not objecting to a big night out a couple of times a year.

When we had the children his view was that he would put it behind him. What has mostly changed is we have moved to a city!! It is all on our door step. Clearly should stay in crappy seaside towns....

Normalish, service has been resumed, DH has said he is NOT going out this weekend. I have said I will work out a spending budget and sort out all the direct debits to come out of a new joint account, with food/petrol etc. We are left with very little each month.

I am now very aware of how this may have been affecting our DS - I have alot of memories of my mum and dad arguing and I have always been very concious not to argue in front of them, but clearly they are picking up on the general mood anyway. That really worries me.

Just got to get though this weekend now and see if I can get DH to agree to going to relate.

Pippy I sympathise my stbexh was very selfish going out drinking every night and commandeering most weekends for his golf/football on the basis he went to work all week long.

I too felt if he doesnt choose me and our dc then why stand over him and try and make him be here if he doesnt want to.

I too worried how it would all be if we split up,how we would tell dc etc .

He left at Christmas and now I am a single mum on paper as well as in reality and no longer spend my life justifying his behaviuor to myself or anyone else and I have my self respect back.

I realise he wouldnt have tolerated for one week what I did for 10 years.

Give your marriage a chance but it does sound like the rot is too set in and he will consider things like not going to the festival as a huge favour to you and really we want to be with someone who WANTS to spend time with us not someone who is ticking a good behaviour box waiting until he can do the things he really wants to do.

Sorry Pippy wish I could be more positive