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Original poster

Rights of access to your child. Who, if anyone, should have them?

21 replies

Tigermoth · 09/08/2001 14:09

Did anyone see that article in yesterday's Telegraph? Some grandparents had applied for the right of access to their grandchild. The child was 2 years old and had never seen her grandparents, because her mother had fallen out with them. The grandparents argued that the child had a right to know her family. Rather than applying for direct access, which would have involved them visiting the child, they compromised and applied for indirect access,to enable them to send cards, presents and photos.
The mother chose not to comment to the press.

I can see both sides of the argument, and it set me thinking. Who should have the right of access apart from primary carers and/or biological parents? I would add medical professionals.

Obviously if there are problems, then it's a different issue, but on the assumption that there are no medical or social problems, should anyone else, like these grandparents, have the right of access?

OP posts:

Batters · 09/08/2001 14:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Tigermoth · 09/08/2001 15:04

I gather that the grandparents didn't want to upset their daughter any more than they had to. They felt indirect access would allow them some contact with their grandchild (one way, of course for now, given her age), and enable the grandaughter to learn about the rest of her family. Yet, by not having the right to visit, the grandparents would not have to meet meet their daughter face to face.

OP posts:

Bloss · 09/08/2001 20:54

Message withdrawn

Original poster

Tigermoth · 10/08/2001 09:47

Bloss, I too think indirect access is a very good compromise, but something about this case still bothers me.

I can understand the necessity for rights of access for parents/primary carers. But do grandparents and other extended family fall into this category? Of course it's very desirable for a young child to have contact with their grandparents, but should the courts be brought into this, and override the mother's wishes?

She seems to have the choice of either going public about the rift and arguing through the courts, opening old wounds into the bargain and possilby making it less likely that they'll ever be reconciled, or accepting that her child will have contact with people whom she feels should not be part of her life.

She may have the child's best interests at heart. There may be good reason why she feels these grandparents are a harmful influence.

I'm just not sure where I stand in this.

OP posts:

Winnie · 10/08/2001 10:28

Tigermoth in 'ideal' circumstances I agree with Bloss about the desirability of children to be in contact with their extended family however, as we have discussed elsewhere, relationship breakdown (whether between a couple or between a parent and grown up child who has children of there own)is rarely straightforward. I was thinking about the thread regarding bad relationships with mothers and there are several posts on there that would suggest that some people would not want their parents (or in-laws) having any contact with their children. I have very mixed feelings about the idea of taking such a case to court although I am not unsympathetic to the grandparents or the child. One simply has to consider the fact that it is perhaps far from a black and white case. (I have to admit that I've not read anything about this case.)

Tom · 10/08/2001 12:47

This has happened in my family - my wife has a brother who has a 4 year old daughter. They have fallen out with his wife, who will not let them see their grandchild at all - they havn't seen her since she was about 4 months old. It's heartbreaking for them.

Batters · 10/08/2001 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Winnie · 10/08/2001 14:37

Imagine the other side of the coin...what if your sibling or siblings partner stopped you seeing your niece or nephew would you figth to see them or would you want to but not? it would be heartbreaking!

Miti · 10/08/2001 14:54

Winnie, I know that situation too well.
I have a half sister (17 yrs older) who has cut off all communication with my mother and all but one of my brothers. She has two sons aged 14 and 12.
It breaks my heart that they have 3 new cousins that they have never met. But all I hope is that as they grow older that they are not tainted by her bitterness and make contact when they can.
When the oldest went on a school camp last year to a small town where my mother happens to live, he made the effort of sending her a letter in advance so as she could arrange a meeting with him. You cannot imagine what that meant to mum.
She was very cautious and explained the circumstances to the teachers in charge who on consultation with his mother permitted her visit as long as it was on camp grounds only.

Joe · 10/08/2001 15:46

Dont you think sometimes things go too far without it really meaning too and to stop others seeing children is sometimes done out of spite. We dont know what has gone on but it would be a shame if had all started from something very small. At least if the grandparents are able to send letters the child will have the means to decide on their own if they want to continue contact.
On a slightly different note my dad recently found out he has a half brother. He was brought up by his aunties until he was a year old and then we dont know, maybe adopted. His family will not give him any information saying it will cause too much trouble. My dad is desperate to find him and the rest of us would also love to meet him. I think it is wrong my dads aunties have made a decision for now 2 grown adults without my dads half brother being involved. It hurts my dad.
This could all backfire on the mum when the child grows older and finds out he or she (cant remember) was kept away from the grandparents.

Alih · 11/08/2001 13:21

Oh a very difficult sitation. How mature of the grandparents to settle for indirect access, but to what end? Surely if the mother wishes the child to have no access, any correspondance will not be passed on. Who receives the post through the door? But of course, we do not know the full facts of the case as always.

Winnie - I am in that situation. I have a niece and nephew (8 and 14 respectively) who I had a very close relationship with until my daughter was born. At this time, my sister became very jealous, very nasty and spiteful, and as a result will not allow me to see her children. After 18mths of heartache, and trying, I have resigned myself to the fact that the older one will soon be old enough to make his own decisions. I know he misses me, so I look forward to rekindling the relationship in the future.

Some people just don't know what they do to their children do they? Every case is different, and families and their feuds very complex.

lilianmccall · 19/08/2006 22:39

i am a very depressed aunt . i fell out with my sister in law .i have now been told i will not get to see my niece again is there nothing i can do to get access.

CaligulaCorday · 19/08/2006 22:48

I think in the main you have to have a legal position where only parents may have direct access. Every situation is different and I think it depends on how old the child is and what the relationship was before.

I can imagine that if my ex-MIL had the right to have sole, direct contact with my children, I would simply flee the country and go into hiding until they were old enough to physically take care of themselves while they were staying with her. There is simply no way in the world that I would allow that mentally ill woman to be in charge of my children, however sorry I feel for her. And I'm afraid I don't have enough confidence in the (secret, unaccountable) family courts, to rely on them to recognise that she is incompetent to be in charge of children.

And can you imagine having to send your children to an ex-MIL who did everything she could to undermine your marriage, and will do everything she can to undermine your parenting? Or a mother with whom you have fallen out because she was a crap parent, who is given the legal right to undermine your parenting? Ghastly.

fireflyfairy2 · 19/08/2006 22:48

Oh So sad I know my MIL has no love lost for me but she loves my children so much, I could never stop her seeing them. They were up here visiting today, after not getting on for a while due to SIL, and then DH and MIL had words, but I have been trying to stay out of it and let the kids see their grandparents, and so far so good.

lilianmccall · 20/08/2006 10:04

i could be really mean i have witnessess to prove she used to hit her child when she was 1 month, old as i put them up for a year . i also have a disclosure of scotland act as i work with kids .she is like a gypsy she is always at her mothers house and her brother abused her when she was young but she still takes her up there. the kid meeds stability in her life

fireflyfairy2 · 20/08/2006 21:41

And what good would it do her to be taken off her mum? Why didn't you say anything at the time she allegedly hit a one month old?

mistressmiggins · 20/08/2006 21:50

my ex left Nov last yr
he had to take the kids to his parents for weekend access til May this yr
now he takes kids to his house, his parents dont see the kids

except.... I Have had my ex's parents to stay several times - I am the ONLY reason my children see their grandparents

its not their fault their son is a knob
its not their fault he catn be bothered to go & visit

so I let them come & stay with me

unfortunately for them, if I meet another man, how will that affect them?
will they want to come & stay if I lived with another man (not their son)

so sad

Tommy · 20/08/2006 22:02

well done mistressmiggins - what it needs is more people like you and less like your exH and the other selfish people talked about on this thread.

I think the problem is in the wording - does anyione have a right to access to a child? Surely the child's needs should be taken into condsideration first before anyone starts banging on about their "right" to have access to them?
Yes - children shou,ld be able to see their extended family as long as they will be safe with them but I think once you start talking about it being a right, it all goes a bit pear shaped

lilianmccall · 21/08/2006 16:06

the reason i didn't say anything back then was exactly for that reason . iused to pop down 3-4 times a week to make sure every thing was okay.now that i no longer get to see her i don't know if she is okay . i am very annoyed i didn't do anything about it back then . at this moment in time she has 2 black eye's

Greensleeves · 21/08/2006 16:19

If my mother took it into her head to apply through the courts for access to my children against my wishes, I would emigrate. It's a ridiculous idea.

wannaBe1974 · 22/08/2006 14:48

I don't think anyone should have "rights of access" apart from the parents of a child. After all where would you draw the line? Imagine if grandparents could suddenly apply for access rights, wouldn't that mean there was a possibility that grandparents who do see their grandchildren, but not as much as they think they should, might get it into their heads to consider applying for more access? it's something I can imagine my own mother considering, as she's always saying she doesn't see my ds enough, and seems to think I should just let her have him when it suits her.

My mil actually said to me one day that she didn't believe that grandparents should have rights. If anything happened to me and dh though I wouldn't ever stop his parents seeing ds, and I do think that all too often people do prevent people seeing their children out of spite rather than out of a legitimate concern for the child.

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