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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Started Counselling today - My counsllor thinks my husbands alcohol abuse are root of problem

41 replies

DeathandTaxes · 17/08/2010 23:03

It is my our 3rd time going to counselling, (with the same lady). I went on my own today. My husband is going to go to her on his own next week, before we then go for joint sessions.

I explained to the counsellor that I felt that we had never really got the the root of out problems in other sessions and that I had finished them before I felt we were ready because I sensed that my dh was becoming impatient with having to trek 30 mins drive every week to these sessions.

I said that I really believe that my dh resents me, his life, his responsibilities, but mostly ME for making him rein in his drinking a few years ago, as it was getting out of control. He never drank at home or during the day, but would go out to meetings in the golf club, (in which he was heavily involved as a council memeber) then have a few drinks there after meeting and then, often as not, would end up stopping off for more at our local and swinging home full as a lord.

There were times when he couldnt get in the front door he was so drunk, times he got in the door, but couldnt make it up the stairs, times when he got upstairs but then pissed in our wardrobe or in bed, or in kitchen sink..once, at a friends wedding, he took a shit in the bath of the bathroom of our hotel bedroom.

This sort of thing went on, sporadically from time to time, until 3 years ago, it all came to a head, I got my FIL involved, it was all out in the open, and he was shamed into sorting out his behaviour.

And he did curb it to a large extent. I begged him at the time to jsut give up drink as I felt it had damaged us enough. He said that no, he knew that he had a weakness, but that he felt that he could change his behaviour, control his drinking and he wanted to prove that to me.

In the last 3 years, the binges have reduced in number and severity, maybe 3 or 4 times a year, and not quite as bad, though still unpleasant to witness. The real problem though is that he still displays worrying traits. He drinks quicker than everyone else, always on for one more, gets annoyed it I suggest to him he has had enough (as I did after he had 8 pints and a whiskey and wanted another drink, at 1am and we have 5 little ones to get up for in the morning).

We are going through a terrible patch this last 18months or so, He says I am trying to control him, that I am no fun anymore, that I am always clock watching and counting his drinks when we are out. This is not strictly true. It is when he starts to get in to binge territory that I start to worry and wish that he knew when he had had enough.

He carries this simmering resentment in him, claiming that I do not "trust" him to drink sensibly. But how can I when he has this inherent, probably genetic weakness and is in denial about his own level of self control..

The counsellor thinks that this issue is at the root of our problems and that in fact, my husband is an addict who is controlling himself with great effort, and taking out all his frustration on me, hence why he is angry at me so much. She says that he displays all the arrogance and selfishness coupled with, paradoxically, the low self esteem of an addict, and she has advised me to seek out the help of Al Anon..She also feels that my anxiety and efforts to make him curb his behaviour are actually enabling and adding to the overall problem Sad

Can anyone advise me who has been in the same boat and can Al Anon help me deal with this?

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mummytime · 18/08/2010 03:50

Do go to Al Anon! It does sound like alcoholic behaviour to me too, I'm afraid. I don't think it will be comfortable to explore how you are enabling him, but I do think it is necessary. They will also be able to give you the support you need for what is likely to come.

How old are your DC? If any are teens or near teens you might want them to contact Al teen at some point. This behaviour could be affecting them more than you think.

You counselor sounds great btw.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 18/08/2010 04:24

Definitely go to Al-Anon. And your counsellor sounds very good.

One of the things MIFLAW always says on the alcoholic threads around here is that if you're an alcoholic, it's much harder to "control" your drinking than it is to give up entirely. Your husband is in denial, is constantly thinking about alcohol and craving more of it and is almost certainly hiding some of his drinking from you. Rather than admit to himself that alcohol, and the desire for it, is controlling him, he has displaced that onto you. Which is why he calls you controlling.

I don't know how you handle it from here, the counselling sounds great but if your husband won't admit to his addiction you're going to have to make some tough choices. Talk to Al-Anon, it'll be full of people who've gone through this.

jesuswhatnext · 18/08/2010 10:42

i am the alcoholic in our marriage and i would say your counsellor is right - you cannot make your dh stop drinking - i am afraid that you are going to have to be the driving force here - decide what YOU want, tell him, and then stick to it! - if you give him an ultimatum, mean it! - he CAN give up the booze if he WANTS to, he has to decide if you and your family are worth the effort - im sorry to sound harsh but there is little point in dressing it up - we (alkies) need to reach our rock bottom before we realise what we have to lose - you need to point out, very forcibly, that you cannot live like this any longer and the choice is now his to make - sober up or leave! - im sorry, but ime, its the only way!

btw - do go to al-anon, my dh finds it invaluable.

good luck!!

DeathandTaxes · 18/08/2010 10:42

Thank you for that, I will go to al anon.

By the way who is MIFLAW, I keep hearing about this poster but do not know her/him?

Am away from pc for next 2 days but will be back on here on fri to chat on this.

Thanks for support. Smile

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jesuswhatnext · 18/08/2010 10:45

miflaw is god!! Grin actually, he is a long term sober alcoholic and is huge help on our alkie threads!

btw - if controled drinking were possible, there would be no such thing as alcoholism!

DeathandTaxes · 18/08/2010 10:46

Jesuswhatnext - had to reply to you before I head off, thanks for that, really appreciate that advice and will think on it. Prob is my dh is not drinking every day or even bingeing every week, but he has done, and still does from time to time, and even when we are out together it is a constant power struggle between us as I am always the one who has to call time. I feel like his keeper and it has really damaged our relationship, but he cannot see this. He would have to be really hitting the booze hard for me to throw him out, but if it got to that, I would!

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Miggsie · 18/08/2010 10:58

I have two reformed alcoholic BIL, and an totally unreformed alcoholic SIL and based on my experiences of them, their struggles and the family fall out thereon I can say your DH is an alcoholic, probably stemming from his own inability to cope with life, so he uses it as a crutch. Blaming you is a way he can deal with his own feelings of inadequacy.

He needs to give up entirely I'm afraid, for his mental and physical health. It won't be easy, but he is lining himself up for liver damage and otehr associated problems.

Also, it isn't you, your DH can blame whoever he likes, but my BIL have been drunks no matter who they are with, it was something within themselves.

One BIL almost died and it wasn't until his 10 yo daughter sobbed on his hospital bed that he realised what a bloody fool he was being and sobered up. Up to that point he hadn't even thought about the affect his drinking had on the family despite his mum berating him regularly, he just seemed to filter that out.

jesuswhatnext · 18/08/2010 11:29

deathand - im afraid that although my behaviour in the past has been appalling, wetting the bed, pissing in the wardrobe and shitting in the bath would have been an absolute deal-breaker for my dh, and vice-versa - (this is sooo not 'normal'!) you dont have to be on a bender everyday to cause desperate unhappiness!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/08/2010 11:31

I would also say that your DH is an alcoholic and has probably been so for many years perhaps from the time before you two got together.

How long have you known he has a drink problem. Did you think that marriage and or children would somehow save him from his problems?. Would not criticise you if you thought yes by the way, such thinking though is often a triumph of hope over experience.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

There are often co-dependency elements within such relationships and I would also suggest you read "Codependent no more" written by Melody Davies as well as contacting Al-anon.

You really do not want to spend any more of your life trying to control his drinking in such a manner as you have tried because it just does not work.

You also have five children to consider in all this; having an alcoholic Dad as a parent will not do them any favours at all in the long run. Alcoholism does affect children to their emotional detriment and Al-ateen may well be helpful to them as well.
You do not want to spend the next 3 to 5 years waiting to see if he has an epiphany re his alcoholism because there are no guarantees here. He could lose everything and still drink. YOU are NOT responsible for him ultimately.

You need to remember the 3cs re alcoholism:-
You CANNOT control it (as you have seen he is still drinking)
You CANNOT cure it
You DID NOT CAUSE it

Last but not least - if you really want to help this man you would not and will not continue to enable him as you have done. I am not one to readily say leave but this may well ultimately come to your marriage ending as a result of his alcoholism. Enabling him as you have done has not helped either of you (all enabling does is give you a false sense of control) and your past actions have also contributed in part to his ongoing alcoholism. You've carried him to his detriment as well as yours with predictable sad result to your own well being.

colditz · 18/08/2010 11:34

I think she's right.

It's actually glaringly obvious that she's right, and if you could magically force your friends and family to tell you the truth, this is what they would say. You don't see it for the same reason that fish don't complain about being wet.

jesuswhatnext · 18/08/2010 11:34

deathand - im afraid that although my behaviour in the past has been appalling, wetting the bed, pissing in the wardrobe and shitting in the bath would have been an absolute deal-breaker for my dh, and vice-versa - (this is sooo not 'normal'!) you dont have to be on a bender everyday to cause desperate unhappiness!

jesuswhatnext · 18/08/2010 11:35

sorry, posted twice!

Nyx · 18/08/2010 11:50

I'm sorry, I have read the thread but don't have time atm to type a longer reply. Just wanted to say this - my sister has been to Al Anon and has read (and re-read) the codependency book mentioned above. It has been a tremendous help to her. She and her DH have not split up and she is learning how to have some emotional distance from his drinking - and stop enabling - it is very hard for her to stop herself from trying to 'control' her DH's drinking (or binges, or whatever) but she is getting good at it, finds she's not obsessing about whether/how much he might or might not be drinking etc. She thinks it is having a positive effect on him and his situation as well, and it certainly has been positive for their relationship. Early days yet but I'm very proud of her, and if she hadn't gone to Al Anon she would have had some sort of breakdown.

You said "She also feels that my anxiety and efforts to make him curb his behaviour are actually enabling and adding to the overall problem" - I think this is absolutely true and it is what my sister was going through.

All the best to you and I hope you find a way through your problems, hopefully with Al anon's help; if you can, let us know how you get on. Well done on the counselling so far too.

DeathandTaxes · 20/08/2010 22:33

Thank you all, and thanks NYX, I feel my situation sounds very similar to your sister and I hope that our relationship will also improve out of going to Al anon.

In some ways I wonder if he is really an alcoholic, for eg, I was away last night, and he went out to a function at 7pm and did not return till 2am (though he lied today to me and told me it was 1am) I know it was the later time cos the babysitter told me.

I know that he will have had at a conservative estimate 12 to 13 pints on that night out. Then, tonight because it was a nice evening, he went out to play golf from 8 to 9, but did not get in till 10 as he went for 2 beers (bottles as he was driving) after playing.

So, surely if he was really an alcohlic he could not have stopped at 2? But then, it he was a "Normal" drinker neither would he drink 13 pints on a night out.

He is 41, a pharmacist and married with 5 kids. He should know better.

I bit my tongue and did not let on I knew he was home later than he said, and I know that threw him. But it was SO damned HARD, when I wanted to shout FFS you were out for 7 hours of drinking and you are even lying about it. But there is no point, just not point at all.

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Snorbs · 21/08/2010 00:02

Alcoholics cannot reliably control their drinking. There are situations where they may be able to only have a couple depending on the situation (particularly if they're being closely observed by their peers) and their state of mind. But you can't rely on that, which is sort of the point. An alcoholic might have two drinks or they might have 12. You can't predict it and neither can they. If they could reliably control how much they drink then they wouldn't be alcoholics...

Nor can you rely on an alcoholic telling you the truth about how much they've had to drink. Was he the one who told you he only had a couple? If so, and in the face of all the other lies he's told you about his drinking, why would you happen to believe this one?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/08/2010 07:57

DandT,

Would like to ask you what your own definition of an alcoholic is. Your H is incapable of social drinking or drinking normally, he cannot do this and will never be able to. He cannot reliably control his drinking as Snorbs correctly points out. It is of no consequence actually that he is a 41 year old married pharmacist so in your mind he should know better - alcoholism is no respector of persons. Unless he wants to address his alcoholism properly there is nothing you can yourself do to help him and helping often turns into enabling (and you have enabled him an awful lot with predictable result). You certainly do need Al-anon and I hope you contact them asap. Alcoholics do not have to drink every day nor are they all sleeping on park benches with a brown paper bag.

Alcoholism is a family disease and you all need support and help. What do you think all this is doing to your children?. They likely know more than you think about their Dad's ongoing drink problem, not just to mention the ongoing relationship problem between you as a result of his drinking and the effects on all of them are incalulable. You cannot fully protect/shield them as their Mum from the very worst of it.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 21/08/2010 08:00

"I bit my tongue and did not let on I knew he was home later than he said"

Shielding him from the truth protects him from actually having any consequences for his own actions. Again this is enabling him. You MUST stop enabling him because doing so only gives you a false sense of control and may even delay any recovery on his part. However, there are no guarantees here as he could lose everything and still drink. You are still NOT responsible for him.

Tortington · 21/08/2010 08:32

my dh get plastered once a week - passed out plastered. he has done some embarrassing things and even his own brother hates to go out with him.

i manage my life around this as 6 days a week he is a good good thoughtful supportive man. that is my choice.

what i am not is his keeper. if we are out and i think things are getting out of control - i will call a taxi and go home, if he falls asleep in a roundabout ( it happened) then thats his fault. i do not ensure he is safe, watch the clock or count his drinks. he is a grown up and it is his responsability.

DeathandTaxes · 21/08/2010 17:19

Yes, I will go to al anon and get help for this. I mistakenly believed that my dh could not be an alcoholic because he was able to go out to certain events and not get plastered, and yet, other times, usually when you would least expect it, thats when he would break out.

But in recent years even the breakouts were not as bad as they used to be, so I thought he had learned how to control it.

But now I think that all his moodiness, resentment anger and overreactions to things are all a part of the "dry drunk" syndrome and caused by the sheer effort it is taking him to rein his excesses in. And I have taken the brunt of that frustration.

Or else I am barking up the wrong tree totally and he really is just an angry resentful man. But I do not think so. He has been kind thoughtful and loving in the past, but I think that alcoholism and the effort to control it has warped his personality.

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KristinaM · 21/08/2010 17:29

good decision to go to al anon

the worst that can happen is that you go along to a few evenings and discover that you have nothing in common with any of them / nothing they are saying makes sense to you

what have you got to lose?

llareggub · 21/08/2010 17:35

My DH is an alcoholic but has been dry for nearly 4 years now. Initially he tried to control his drinking but it just made him worse. Now he is out and proud as an alcoholic, well, not proud exactly but he has accepted what he is and we live our lives accordingly. He attends AA, neither of us drink and our lives have transformed for the better.

I attend an organisation similar to Al-Anon but it is a local organisation run for the carers and families of addicts. I get a lot out of it; even a few years on I have residual issues to deal with. If you are in the midlands I can give you further details, if you like?

DeathandTaxes · 21/08/2010 18:15

Thank you llareggub, but I am in Northern Ireland actually. Mt nearest al anon is 30mins drive away but I am determined to start going.

I wish that I had realised the problem for what it was years ago, and gotten the help that I needed then, as I have such a lot of residual anger and resentment at my dh for what he has put me through and I really would like to be able to forgive him and move on.

The thing is, I have to relearn everything now, and stop stressing myself each and every time that he goes out for a drink, wondering if this will be the night that he goes AWOL. That knot in the stomach that can keep me awake all night until he comes home is not easy to live with.

Am glad to hear about your experience and the positive ending with your dh giving up. Did your DH become an angry person to live with in the period when he was trying to control his intake of alcohol?

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llareggub · 21/08/2010 18:35

He wasn't angry, more defeated, a bit more selfish and secretive and definitely more destructive. TBH at the time I was also in denial about his drinking as I didn't really want to be the wife with the alcoholic husband.

Complete abstinence is the only thing that works for him. I'd also add that he isn't angry now either: he is happy, at peace and proud of his achievement.

DeathandTaxes · 21/08/2010 23:18

It is good to hear that a happy ending is possible.

Right now, I feel pretty hopeless. I have to let him go, and do his worst, stop trying to control him..knowing that this will mean a return to the 4am return times, staggering up the garden path, collapsing at the foot of the stairs, etc etc.

Tonight he has gone out to the gold club. Left 9.30pm, said he would be home by 1.30am. I know 100% this will not happen/ He will likely stumble in around 3am or later.
And I will have to bite my tongue and get on with it tomorrow with the kids, becuase NO amount of reproach or admonishment from me will make a damn bit of difference to him or what he does, he is an alcoholic, the drink will always come first. Sad

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DeathandTaxes · 21/08/2010 23:19

Golf club i mean!!

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