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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

can you help unable to change status quo

22 replies

odietamo · 15/08/2010 09:31

Hello
I am in an unhappy marriage and have asked H to leave...he refused.We have a big shared house with three dcs and all their childhood stuff in,room for bfs and gfs etc.
Havw spoken to solicitor who said it would either be separation or unreasonable behaviour and either selling house or H move out.
I can't leave cos will look like I am leaving the family home.
If I force H out will be very traumatic I think and he looks after youngest dd when I at work...
I worried about youngest dd mainly,to force her father out when she sees nothing wrong and is babysitting while I at work...not sure if is fair on her
Also he would have shared custody...would miss her terribly and H very difficult and doesn't look after dd as well as me.
Don't know whether to put up and shut up or go for it and in two years time will be happy.
Have been married 20 yrs and H is selfish,difficult,uncommunicative,unsupportive,blaming and a bully.

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 15/08/2010 09:45

Hi, a horrible situation. My XH refused to leave at one point too but did go tg in the end.

How does your H feel about you and the marriage? Does he feel its over? What are his reasons for not wanting to go?

I really sympathise with you as I found it incredible when my XH refused to go (unless I paid him Hmm)

odietamo · 15/08/2010 09:49

He has been trying to help out more etc as I think he wants to keep me[don't see why when he hasn't treated me well all the years he's had me there]...but over and above all else he wants to keep the house and garden....I renovated it myself or oversaw it when dcs young and he main breadwinner...it is now worth a lot and he does not want to move or sell

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ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 10:05

but then - why should he move out, why should he be the one who leaves the family home, especially if he doesn't want the marriage to end?

I have no idea what you do, one of my friends is in a similar situation (except he is male) and it just seems to be stalemate.

odietamo · 15/08/2010 10:23

chasing...that is true.
He doesn't want it to end but I do...when I asked him to move out he said "It's my house I'm not going anywhere,off you go then"

So I could move out...but I won't have shared proceeds from the house...so the only answer is to sell the house and for me to force the divorce on grounds of UB

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odietamo · 15/08/2010 10:27

I don't think I should move out before the house is sold..or he wouldn't sell it....he would say now he is main carer for dd that is why he is doing more....and he will blame me to the dc for losing their home...and altho I could stick up for myself I don't want to tell the dc he is a selfish bully who doesn't care about anyone but himself.

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odietamo · 15/08/2010 10:32

ok need to talk to him again difficult tho that is and either
1...sell house with view to divorce or
2....stay in house living apart until dd older

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mummytime · 15/08/2010 10:34

You have to tell them why you want to split. I can't imagine anything more confusing than parents who split and one blames the other, and the one caused the split wouldn't say why.

I did have a friend who was in the US, his parents split while he was away without telling him. He made a surprise trip home for Christmas and had a horrible surprise.

You kids may or may not care about the family home (people have very different feelings about this). You do need to talk to them, especially if they are grown up.

ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 10:41

It must be an awful situation to be in, for you, him, and the children.
I can see why neither of you would want to leave, but as you say - what it is alternative.

Is relate an option?

Anniegetyourgun · 15/08/2010 10:46

Well, what I did with mine was to conduct a divorce while we were rather uncomfortably living under the same roof. XH too was looking after DS4 while I worked full time, and it seemed nobody but me actually saw anything wrong going on, or at least anything wrong that wasn't my fault. XH wanted to stay in the house with DSs and receive maintenance from me, since I was the one who wanted out; he persuaded all the DSs that this was fair and that I was a bit mad. (Actually that last bit was true, I was going a bit mad at that point. He was the reason for it.) There was enough equity in the marital home to enable both of us to buy smaller houses in a rather less desirable area (though that's a matter of opinion) with a small mortgage each. So I petitioned for sale of the house followed by 50-50 split of everything including DS4's residence (DSs 1-3 were old enough to make their own choices). I won.

Fast forward two years and due to XH's inability to look after DS4 on his own, I have him full time and DS2 & 3 came to join us (thank goodness DS1 got married and moved out or it would be standing room only!). We don't have a big garden or a lot of their childhood toys any more, but we do have a pleasant home and, more to the point, no Mr Grouchy to bring the little storm cloud of doom into our lives. Money is a bit of a worry since I lost my job, we'll have to see how things pan out, but I can't put a price on my mental health. If you can afford it, don't be too tied down to bricks and mortar. It's people that matter, and life is too short to stay miserable.

odietamo · 15/08/2010 10:49

relate not an option.
He has belittled me and treated me badly over the years despite initially being intensely in love with me

now I have got my confidence back he still wants me Hmm

I want to move on and have done for a long time but now have a good income and got my oomph back...but want to put dd welfare before mine but can't work out which best thing to do

we are completely emotionally and physically detached but still don't think it will work for long...don't know if make break now or when dd older maybe 1 to 2 yrs she is 8

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odietamo · 15/08/2010 10:56

Annie..thankyou so much for posting that is my situation and what I will have to do ...tho worried about trauma on dd

My bestfriend of 20 yrs is a very wise person and feels the way he has behaved is wrong...it is not bad enough to constitute proper abuse [and don't want to get into that whole mn row] but close..I have certainly been bullied and a bit scared at times.... but because he onlycares about/ looks after no 1 I am trying to protect the dcs as he will say and do anything to save face

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ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 10:56

I don't know.

My ds's were 5 and 2 when my ex left. He wanted the relationship to end, and he went. TBH I think that my boys have dealt with it reasonably well because they were so young, but it isn't what either of us wanted for them when we had them.

8yo is different, but 10y, 12y, 14y will be different again, and how long do you wait?

I assume that divorce while still living together gets very very messy, more messy than when one of you has moved out. I suppose it is which option you could cope with more.

Could you move out with the children?
Does "leaving the marital home" impact on your stake in it at divorce?
Are you at the point where you can take action (legal or physical), or are you still getting there?

odietamo · 15/08/2010 11:01

I could move out with the dc I think...all money tied up with current house tho so would be loathe to leave it as may never recoup the money

stuck in a loop and I hate the weekends

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odietamo · 15/08/2010 11:03

sorry should have mentioned or thought of this before but we have a small holiday flat in disrepair,...maybe we could do it up again and I could go there....but then he wuld keep the house...or he could go there then he would still have the garden?

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ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 11:06

if you instigated divorce proceedings wouldn't you be entitled to a share of the assets, and if that means selling the house.....
I would have thought he could argue against selling it (mescher order?) if the children were living there with him, but if they were with you?
I think you need legal advice and you need to make a decision as to what you are going to do.

My mate has been in this position, and the talking to his wife about it has gone on for more than a year with nothing changing.
He knows that the only way something will change is by him taking action, I don't think he can even contemplate the "divorce while living together" route, and to date he isn't able to bring himself to move out. So it goes on, day by soul destroying day.

odietamo · 15/08/2010 11:25

yes same situation chasing...thanks for taking the time to try to help me and you are right I either ...
on the solicitors guidance instigate the divorce while living together here with view to splitting assets fairly somehow

or he go into flat[would that count as separation?],instigate divorce and split assets fairly and share some childcare and the garden..maybe become more amicable?

or me go into flat,would be able to be independent and live my own life,start divorce proceedings ...and would have rooms for two dds ....H more likely to be able to pay me difference as has much bigger income than me...if could get him to amicably agree to split would be ideal

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mummytime · 15/08/2010 11:26

I wouldn't move at all until you had at least got legal advice on the consequences of any such move. Do it tomorrow!

ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 11:30

ditto legal advice, although the OP has already spoken to a solicitor.
I guess you need to firm up in you mind what action you are prepared to take, then get legal advice as to the best way to do it.
Then comes the "doing it".

I think for my mate, regardless of how unhappy he (and she) are at the moment, the process of going through the separation seems worse.
So even if the eventual outcome would be better than where they are now (and to be honest - who knows if that is the case, and who would it be better for, him, her, the children?), going through the process would be worse.
And that is the stumbling block.

odietamo · 15/08/2010 11:34

exactly my problem

thankyou so much will do as we have said
xx

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Anniegetyourgun · 15/08/2010 11:35

Ok, the emotional side of it... DS4 was 9, similar age to your DD, when I first used the D-word, and he did find it hard to handle. It didn't help that his dad told him all sorts of nasty untrue stuff (the first he heard about it was when his dad said "Mummy's leaving us all to go and live with another man", which unsurprisingly made him burst into tears!). For the next two years while we went through the divorce process he was subjected to an almost daily barrage of emotional pressure, to say he wanted to live with his dad in the same house and didn't want to live with me and my "fancy man", and when he tried to say he would like to be with each of us half the time even his brothers jumped on him to tell him that wasn't an option, although I assured him it was. It wasn't an easy time for him at all.

The alternative, though, was for him to grow up thinking that the conditions he lived in, the stuff his dad said and did, were normal. Although with 50-50 residence he would be a fair time with his dad, he would also be a fair time with me, and I hoped that would be enough to keep him grounded. I told him as little as possible about our arguments at the time, but I did promise him that there was no "fancy man", and that he, DS4, was more important to me than my job or computer games. (I may have been lying about the computer games Grin)

When we first moved he preferred staying at his dad's as it was the carer, atmosphere and general conditions (pathological untidiness and no baths!) that he was used to. Sometimes during the week with me he'd ask if he could pop round to his dad's, and I'd always let him as I didn't want him to feel he was a prisoner here. Later I found out he'd sometimes asked to go to my place in the middle of XH's week but wasn't allowed to. Not a huge surprise. Anyway, gradually he became more settled at mine, till eventually the school said they'd noticed he was happier (and cleaner) in my weeks and would I take him officially more often, like, er, all week? XH was given pretty much no choice in the matter, with social services hovering grimly in the background. Following a meeting at the school DS came home with me and seemed hugely relieved.

He's 13 now, still working through some of the issues, poor mite, but cheerful and secure for the most part. He sees his dad occasionally but does not express the wish to spend time in his company. XH has offered him treats like a day at the seaside which I said he is quite welcome to go on, but I think we both know that it isn't actually ever going to happen because days at the seaside are things that mummies organise.

Not sure where that gets you with your DD. It will inevitably be a shock to her and there's no telling where her loyalties may go initially. There's also no guarantee that her dad won't be putting his side of things when you aren't there, and let's face it, children are programmed to learn from their parents, so the one who gets the story in first is likely to be believed. Unfortunately the more unscrupulous parent wins this kind of one-way contest in the short term. I can only say that if you don't compromise your beliefs, if you continue to treat her with kindness and consideration, be truthful but not tactless, and of course always make it clear just how much you love her (without ever, ever trying to suggest you love her more than the other parent does, that is so no-win), she should accept before long that she has two parents but not together, and that she is not losing any love because of it. There does not have to be a "good" parent and a "bad" parent, just two people who don't make each other happy. Very best of luck with that, it isn't easy...

ChasingSquirrels · 15/08/2010 11:35

I hope that, in the end, you get the best outcome for all of you.

Good luck.

odietamo · 15/08/2010 11:41

thank you for that very helpful post Annie and well done on your journey
xx

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