Ex's girlfriend hates my son

[SickofEverything]

My ex has been with his girlfriend for around 7 years. She's a lot older than him (he's 30, she's 50) and she's intensly jealous, she HATES me and is sure I will run off with her precious lover as soon as I get the opportunity (I'd be more likely to turn lesbian).
My two sons go over and stay at their house once a fortnight but she has taken a massive dislike to my eldest son. She says he's moody, cocky, has a superiority complex, is a show off, is a nerd - you name it. Its basically that she's jealous of him IMO, he got into the secondary school she tried to get her own son into (and now tells him its a terrible school and he will get beaten up on his first day there because of his know-it-all attitude) and DS has the same grades as her son (who is 2 years older). DS1 is also VERY close to me which turns her against him even more.
Anyway her treatment of him as got steadily worse over the past few months. She takes his mobile off him so that he can't contact me, rips the piss out of him, tells him horror stories about secondary school and slags me off to him. He HATES going to his father's because of her.
But last week they all went camping. I assured DS it would be ok as it was a neutral setting etc. He reluctantly went and now I feel awfully guilty because she was a complete bitch to him all week.
She refused to let him take his phone so he couldn't contact me at all, she shoved a lollypop down his throat because she thought he'd laughed at her falling over (even though her own son was laughing but that was ok , around the campfire she made everyone sausages apart from DS because she "didn't realise" and she took the piss out of him on top of a mountain saying "shame mummy can't text you up here, isn't it?"

Anyway, after the lollypop incident, DS shouted at her "you're lucky I don't hit you back" and she retorted with "yeah, then I'd have you up in court"

WTF??? He's 11. How can you have such hatred for an 11 year old purely down to your own insecurities?? She refused to allow ex to let me know when they'd be back, he was ordered to ignore any texts from me whilst they were away.

DS doesn't want to go but I'm really worried that if I say he can't go, she'll talk ex into going to court for him. She has already been overheard trying to pursuade ex to go for full residency so they get the tax credits and child benefit etc.

I don't know what to do for the best. Ex is shit scared of her so even if I tell him, the message won't get to her.

If anything goes to court won't OP's son be asked, he's old enough surely?

SS, I think hope you're wrong. Victimising a child is abuse, ridiculing a child is abuse, taking a child's phone on which they contact their main carer is abuse.

Agree with posie.

It IS abuse. And their fucking father is just allowing it to happen???

Op, do not make your son go through this for the sake of an easy life.

Put a stop to it. Protect your child.

PosieParker A court will give some weight to the child's view - and increasingly so as the child gets older - however, whether an 11 year old wants to see his father or not, isn't likely to be given an awful lot of weight to be honest. The argument would be that an 11 year is not fully mature enough to make the decision for themselves - exactly as parents would still think it was reasonable to be making major decision for a child that young.

The problem is (and no disrespect to the OP, because she may be the most genuine person on the earth) but courts don't like to get involved and judge between warring parents. OP says the ex's new wife is a jealous bitch - Heaven knows what the Dad's version is - you can hardly put the child in the middle and expect them to make the decision.

A court will take the view that contact with both parents is the best outcome. It is extremely rare for a father to pursue contact through the courts and not to be given any contact at all. Put it this way, if pregnant Mary fled her violent ex - he would still stand a good chance of getting a few hours supervised contact with the baby, with a view to building a relationship with the child, and eventually getting staying contact.

The notion that a court would look at the sort of incidents described here, and suggest that Dad gets no contact at all is just not on the cards.

More than that - it is also not a desirable outcome. Children need both parents. OP needs to work with his ex to try and resolve the problems for their son.

sorry - *her ex

Just a long shot but would it be possible for you to take your 2 DS to their dad to the house next visit and then ask if you can have a chat about all this with your ex and the woman? Be as pleasant as possible, but at least you would make her aware that you are not happy with the situation.

If she is being nasty to your son, then I assume she would be very careful of what she says in future if you have confronted her. If she does become aggressive with you, then leave with your sons and I would suggest only then getting the law involved.

At least this way you are giving her a chance to defend herself if your son has exaggerated things. If it is true, I would not be happy to allow my child to be bullied in this way.

Good luck!

"Children deserve a relationship with both parents."

Children deserve not to be abused when in contact with one or both of those parents.

SS, no-one is talking about permanently denying contact with this inadequate father. They are saying that this abuse needs to stop. And yes, all those incidents together do add up to emotional abuse and the courts are becoming more aware of that. Each one on its own (apart from the lollipop one) isn't abuse, but together they build a picture of abuse.

But you are right, on the whole, courts still come down on the side of abusers.

I'm not really sure what you're suggesting then?

Families are often in conflict - separated parents have different ways of parenting - it doesn't make it abuse. In fact, the damaging course here would be to deprive a child of a relationship with his father, purely because the adults can't sort themselves out.

OP - I realise you're upset, but you need to sort out the tension in all these relationships. Have you thought of mediation?

SassySusan you are perhaps a lucky person who has never come across cruel parents and step parents. Perhaps this isn't happening but I see no reason to believe at this point that it isn't. Adults can be incredibly cruel to children. ~Do you think that everyone on the Stately Homes threads are making their experiences up?

SS, nobody is suggesting that the child be deprived of a relationship with his father.

They are suggesting that the father ought to ensure that the relationship does not expose the child to abuse.

Eurostar I am probably the unluckiest person I know, tbh - but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not saying do nothing about the child's unhappiness - I'm just trying to suggest a more approriate set of actions. Sitting down and talking to Dad sounds like a useful first step - or professional mediation.

I'm surprised by a lot of the other responses. I think it's a leap to assume that this is definitely a description of abuse. No doubt Dad would arrive and say OP is impacably hostile, makes it clear she thinks his NP is a jealous bitch to anyone who'll listen, and has alienated his DCs against her (and him) probably. I also think it's wildly inaccurate to suggest that a court wouldn't enforce a contact order in these circumstances - he hasn't abused the child (these sound like simple parenting disagreements) - and to wind the OP up with silly statements such as the court will see through the bitch etc etc is just not sensible.

Sorry if that sounds harsh - but I do think both parents need to sit down together, stop bickering and agree a good solution for the DCs - which enables them to have happy contact with both parents.

Maybe I've missed it, but WTF is their dad thinking allowing this?! Does this vile woman have some kind of hold over him that means he would compromise his DCs wellbeing? I'm not doubting what you're saying OP, not at all, I'm just finding it hard to get my head around the idea of a father witnessing this kind of abuse to his child and not doing a thing to stop it.

Are you absolutely sure your DS is telling you the whole truth?

So it's true then. Children don't really have a say in society and adults can do what the hell they like?

This needs to be discussed between the parents. The vast majority of step families get along very well. The children are seen as a priority and are given the care and attention they so deserve.

This doesn't seem to be the case appro the OP so I think that it requires a belief in the child and protection from the abuser.

At the very least.

your poor DS :(
he does not deserve any of this abusive treatment.
if you were to call ss they would advise you to cut contact and be the protective factor.
my advice would be to sit with your DC's and talk through this.
their nasty fucking bitch of a stepmother is not their only abuser, their father is an abuser by allowing this to happen to his children while they are in his care. if their father cannot protect your oldest Ds, he certainly cannot protect the youngest either.
whatever you do next i strongly recommend you seek some professional advice, from solicitors, nspcc, ss, police.

"but I do think both parents need to sit down together, stop bickering and agree a good solution for the DCs"

That is an extraordinarily patronising thing to say. Why are you assuming that the OP is bickering with her ex? At no point has she indicated that that is the case, why is it your default assumption? Are you a cafcass officer? (Because they often take the view that both parents are simply bickering, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other and hey, if the resident parent (who is usually a woman) says there is abuse going on it's just a parental discipline disagreement - and guess what, there's a string of cases of abusive non-resident parents using their contact with their DC's to abuse them and in some cases kill them).

The courts are extremely sanguine about abuse, that's true, but you are assuming that the xh will take it to court. It sounds to me like it's the SM who is the driving force behind this court threat, not the XH.

herbeatitutde I'm sorry if it sounded patronising. I would have said, it's more "mother and apple pie" obvious than anything else. I am not a CARFASS officer.

Do you prefer the advice from the poster above (maristella), who thinks Social Services would advise cutting contact immediately? This is hugely unrealistic - what is the point in giving the OP an unrealistic steer? It only escalates the situation.

Regarding the bickering, I suppose my assumption was based on the OP. These parents do not seem to have a cooperative relationship, and the OP sounds incredibly hostile to her ex and even more so to his new partner.
For example, she tells us:
Np is a lot older than him - who cares? What's that got to do with the price of fish?
She is jealous and thinks I want him back - again, not relevant to the care of the children - and how does she know anyway? Hard to believe that the np has told her this.
NP is jealous because her DS has the same grades as OP's son, even though he is younger - I mean, how can she know how the np feels - how can an 11 and 13 year old have the same grades anyway?
Ex is frightened of his NP - ?? How on earth did she arrive at this conclusion.

In fact most of the OP is a character assination of the ex's NP and their relationship. We are told she is jealous, spiteful, aggressive etc., but there is really very little detail on these allegations of abuse. I don't know where you got the idea that the SM is threatening court either to pursue access... she doesn't say that.

I do take your point that emotional abuse can be difficult to describe, and that it is a pattern of behaviour that build up to be more than the sum of its parts. However, I think it is equally dangerous to assume that the child is being abused by his step-family. This screams hostile adults, tension and parenting discipline disagreements to me.

she shoved a lollypop down his throat because she thought he'd laughed at her falling over (even though her own son was laughing but that was ok....

Please please tell me that you are going to take this further!!

Personally I would be contacting the police and SS for urgent advice. She, according to your DS1 - who you obviously believe and why shouldn't you- shoved a lolly down his throat because he is meant to have laughed. I would not be sending any child of mine there.
I would be on the phone to my ex NOW telling him that until you get the truth from him as to what happened then contact will need to be in a nuetral place without this woman present. He needs to grow a backbone and stand up for his child.

What does your DS2 say happened or have you not asked him?

You are all your son has in the way of protection going by your OP and you need to stand up for him.

I would invite your EX and his dragon girlfriend round to discuss things - somewhere your son will be comfortable and they will be the ones out of their home ground, I would also make sure there is another person there.

I hope you get this sorted...for your sons sake and safety!

Sassy...

Np is a lot older than him - who cares? What's that got to do with the price of fish?

this was relevant to explain it is not a younger woman who is treating OP's son this way but someone who is meant to be mature.

NP is jealous because her DS has the same grades as OP's son, even though he is younger - I mean, how can she know how the np feels - how can an 11 and 13 year old have the same grades anyway?

Quite easily, my 12yr old son had the same grades as a yr9 child in his end of term tests. And has one of the highest results in the school house he is in and he is going into yr8 when he goes back to school.

Ex is frightened of his NP - ?? How on earth did she arrive at this conclusion.

Why else would he walk away when she was abusing his son??

She has already been overheard trying to pursuade ex to go for full residency so they get the tax credits and child benefit etc.

That last bit tells you she has ideas about going to court.

Do you work in the family court in a professional capacity SassySusan? I am just wondering because you seem to be talking quite authoritatively about what might happen.

I don't blame the OP for slagging of her ex's partner - anyone that I thought was making my child unhappy would get the full force of my wrath. That's what parents should do surely?

It may well be natural to feel hostile, but it's not generally helpful. When parents separate, the best outcome for the children is that parents co-operative and parent collaboratively.

Like parenting when you are together, it is usally better to have a united front - and support each other... but that is hard when there is underlying tensions and upset.

I'm not commenting in a professional capacity - but I think my advice is fairly accurate. As I said, there are some posters on the legal board who are pretty good, who are probably far better placed to comment.

I agree absolutely but that is an ideal - it's not always possible and if one parent is not being cooperative and allowing their child to be sidelined and bullied by their new partner, then the other parent must act in the child's best interests, even if that increases tension between the parents.

SS I think you?re right to advise the OP to be realistic, but I question your undeplaying of the incidents and the dismissal of the OP's concerns.

I do take your point ? on the whole, courts don?t protect children in this situation, so I can understand your emphasis on realism versus protecting the child ? but I think it?s wrong to go from the starting point that the kid is exaggerating or that it?s only a problem of squabbling adults, rather than something the child is experiencing. Just because one adult may be unreasonable, that doesn?t mean that the other adult who has to negotiate with him/ her, is also unreasonable and has to be reduced to the same status as him/ her ? ie you?re all bickering adults, just sort it out. That view tends to be the default one of the courts and authority in general and it totally disadvantages anyone reasonable dealing with anyone else who is unreasonable. That?s why it?s a good idea to keep a diary and communicate in writing ? so that a third party can see clearly what has been happening.

Sorry if I?m coming across as being v. aggressive to you, I don't mean to, but I find it quite upsetting to read a thread where a child?s experience is being poo-poohed as not being very important. Children don?t have much of a voice and I think that it?s never right to underplay their feelings and their experiences. It must be utterly miserable to know that you have to go and spend another weekend in a house where you are going to be picked on, and the OP has a duty to make this better for her DS, not ignore it. She won?t do that by being a doormat, there?s a balance here between ensuring that the child?s right to have a long term relationship with his father is facilitated, and his greater right, to be protected from abuse in the course of that relationship, whether that be emotional or physical. Courts aren?t very good at balancing those rights at the moment, but tbh I think you?re jumping the gun by focusing on courts etc. anyway ? the OP didn?t mention going to court, she made it clear that the SM was thinking that. Her best course is to try and sort this out without courts, of course it is, but she won't sort it out by minimising what's happening to her DS - she needs to know that this treatment will not continue.