Couples counselling questions I can't answer

[AuntieMaggie]

We've been having couples counselling for an affair my DP had and some other issues, and the counsellor has asked a few times now "what would resolve this for you" or "what could your DP do to give you closure" and I don't know the answer....

Am I supposed to?

I've got another session tonight and I feel stupid when I can't answer these questions like I'm supposed to know the answer but don't.

I'll watch this thread with interest - I have the very same problem!

I assume there's no more contact with the OW, and that the affair is completely over?

I'm not sure I've had a proper heartfelt apology yet. That's one thing. He's said "sorry", but you know how kids say "sorry" in a whiney way, so they say the right words, but not the right meaning? I feel he's a bit like that.

I am starting to think there will be no silver bullet, a special thing that happens or is said that fixes this. But it will be a big effort (from both of us) every day to relate in a more positive way.

It's difficult.

Yes the affair had been over for 6 months when he told me about it, only lasted a couple of weeks and he hasn't been in contact with her since she contacted him to ask how he was and whether I was kicking him out after I contacted her to tell her I knew. She was a friend of his since school.

Thats how he apologised to me at first, and I just didn't want to hear it. Hearing him tell the story to the counsellor was interesting for me to see the whole story from his side, if you know what I mean.

I don't think there is a single thing that fixes it but being asked that makes me wonder if there should be and doubt myself!

It is difficult but I'm so glad I stuck with him.

How long is it since yours happened/you found out?

Maybe what she is trying to find out is whether there IS something that could make it better for you.

With some people they realise that nothing can make it better and the best thing is to move on - or live with someone that you can never trust

I don't anything can make it better, time eases the pain but I'm over a year down the line and still feel incredible sadness at times. My DH is doing everything possible to make me happy, he is mortified by what he has done, how it affected me and DC. I don't think he genuinely "got it" until 10 months or so down the line, how much hurt and pain was caused and how you cannot take it away.

I keep thinking about "closure" as I haven't met the OW, seen her on facebook and received some rather vile texts from her when I initially found out what was going on . I did tell my DH that I would like to see her, not to talk to, but just to observe if that makes sense. I think DH would rather stick pins in his eyes than come across her again .

I personally think time is the best healer and also doing things for yourself, taking up new hobbies etc. Once you feel happier in yourself you can cope better with the aftermath.

Out of interest why did he choose to tell you, when it had been over for 6 months? Why then?

He could say:

1. "I am desperately sorry. I realise I was utterly wrong and I give you my word that this will never happen again. My heart and soul lies with you and I intend to prove through my everyday actions that you and our family are my number 1 priority. "

1. He could listen, without butting in, to your full account of how you felt. The utter pain, hurt and the slow realistation and putting pieces together. The fact that nothing will ever be the same for you. How it has affected the way you look back at photos of your children - 'before' and 'after', the fact that you view yourself, your body and your personality, the way you view your future and your finances, your dreams and ambitions, hopes and plans.

1. He could demonstrate daily by being openly affectionate that he loves you. He could also re-engage in the family by helping out with all the daily things that end up for you to do.

Not sure if that helps, but for me that's how it's been. It's a f-ing rollercoaster and I have never been so shocked, embarrassed, humiliated, disgusted and depresed / insecure / unconfident in my life. I have been unable to function normally since the beginning of May and everyone has noticed. It has changed my view of absolutely everything in my life and I feel that even if I went it alone I would have a jaded view of men for ever. They do not think with their brains I'm afraid. I am glad i do not have a DS.

Good luck - with everything; you are not alone

If you had the answers, that would make the whole situation easier for everyone. But you don't - so tell them that you don't.

Explain how this whole thing has made you feel and that you do not know how you can get past it - that your trust and love have been shattered and need time to heal and rebuild - and that your H needs to understand this cannot be the work of a moment.

Tell them both that you need time and space to be angry, grieve what you have lost and try to heal.

Beyond that, you do not know what will help. Because until it does, it won't be clear. However, you could point out a few things that would seriously hinder the healing process!

for you that you are going through this.

I often think when counsellors or friends ask these questions, they should preface them with:
"Apart from being able to believe this is all a bad dream...." because at times, I think apart from a complete memory erasure, it is difficult to cite what would help you move on.

And sometimes what would help you wouldn't help the situation overall and it then becomes too late.

For the longest time, what would have helped me achieve some kind of closure was for my DH to tell OW how it really was, but the advice we got and accepted from counsellors was that this would simply inflame her need for attention, as she was behaving erratically and trying to provoke a reaction. At the time too, our DCs didn't know anything and I feared a backlash from either her or her H.

With hindsight though, proper closure with her would have really helped me and it still festers. It is too late now, 2 years on. It is why I now advise posters in the same situation to insist that this happens.

I thought about these questions long and hard though and for me, it meant a complete change in lots of behaviours in my DH that had contributed to the infidelity. Issues such as selfishness, not taking responsibility, a dislike of "difficult conversations", casual lying - as well as being completely honest about the affair in terms of what was said and the feelings recalled. Infidelity never happens in a vaccuum. There are always behaviours and character traits in people that make infidelity more likely. It is therefore a mistake to concentrate on the affair itself, or the primary relationship - and not the person.

To counsellors and people supporting us too, it can sometimes seem as though the unfaithful party is doing everything they can to atone for the hurt and yet....we are still stuck.

We have now got to the stage where everything I needed to change has changed and my H has done all the difficult work on himself and is in truth, completely different to the man he was 2 years ago, in terms of his own character faults and behaviours.

So I think like Counting says, it becomes more about "managing" the extreme sadness that lingers and perhaps nothing but time lessens that.

However, with hindsight, at the 6 month stage there were still things that my H could have done in terms of his journey and in your shoes, I'd think long and hard about what they are. What we learned is that proper character change takes a lot longer than 6 months or even a year. I don't know if this will help you, but the following questions might help:

Is your DP properly regretful for the pain caused?
Does he take complete responsibility for the infidelity?
What behaviours and character traits led to the infidelity? How must these change?
Is he with-holding any information about the affair; things that happened, things that were said by either party; the feelings felt or expressed?
Do any vulnerabilities remain, in terms of lifestyle, relationships with family/friends that don't support fidelity?
Do you have a shared understanding of the affair - its cause, its meaning, its effect?

For you specifically Aunt Maggie, it's also helpful to project the future and the challenges that children might produce. I imagine you would want to be certain that the old vulnerabilities in terms of him are eradicated, because children bring stress as well as joy to any relationship. How will he respond to reduced attention? Does any sense of entitlement linger?

He told me because we were talking about getting married and he said he wanted to be honest with me before we did. We hadn't made any arrangements but had been discussing the best ways as my family is complicated.

Ironically our relationship outside of this has been better since even before the counselling that we waited 5 months for.

All of your comments make sense, and he has done everything since to make me feel like the most important person in his life. I just get confused when the counsellor tries to pin point it to a specific thing like that.

I think I'm confused about that a bit more because at the last session I brought up the one and only violent outburst he had towards me a couple of years before this and she asked what would tie up the loose ends on that one for me.

Lucy I completely understand where you are coming from. The ripple effect on everything is astonishing and it alters almost every view you had about yourself, your life - and life in general. It feels as though nothing is as it seems...and it is something few people truly understand until they have been through it. I imagine you want to hurl things at the screen when you see posters on here write that "these things happen" and "infidelity happens all the time, get over it" etc.

What I would say to you personally though is that if the things you cite aren't happening for you, that is a very worrying sign. Your H should be doing everything in his power right now to convince you that he is sorry and he should be doing all he can to restore your self-esteem.

I recognise too that feeling that your life is ruined whether you stay or go, but that does pass and some logic returns. If you part and form another relationship, you will have much firmer boundaries about fidelity and since this isn't about you at all, another partner won't necessarily be unfaithful. And if you stay, be really firm about what needs to change and accept nothing less. You change enormously after something like this and trust me, many of those changes are to be celebrated.

Having read a few of your posts now Lucy, I would say don't hide from this and try to bury it. Don't resist the very necessary journey you need to make and always remember that you have a choice. This doesn't have to blight your whole life, although I know it feels right now as though it has.

I think it's ok to feel as if it doesn't really work like that. 'I don't know' is a good answer IMO. Slight to be honest at the idea of a single thing that would 'finish off' a devastating experience like infidelity.

Why do YOU have to come up with an answer, just because the question has been asked? 'That feels like a question that has nothing to do with my life as it is at the moment' could be another answer.

I don't know if this will help, but these are a few of my thoughts, based on my own experience.

I agree with what Lucy85 has said about the three things that your DP might do to help you recover.

I know that I can?t expect my dh to do penance for the rest of his natural life (did I read on MN or somewhere else that things can?t be right if the ?guilty party? is still remorsefully putting out the bins in 10 years time!). But I do find that him helping more around the house and taking more responsibility for home things is a good indication to me that he is focused on improving and contributing fully to home and family life.

I also agree that it would be useful to say what would hinder the healing. In my case, I know that finding out that he is lying even about small things, or lying by omission (eg going out after work in groups including the OW) is very harmful. I have told him that I now have zero tolerance on lying and I will enforce this.

I think that healing has to be about consistency, truth and the gradual rebuilding of trust through actions and not empty words. I think that it also has to be about regaining intimacy.

I?m very attracted by the idea of doing this ? of becoming more intimate - but I?m really struggling to bring it about. We do have sex, but I am thinking about intimacy in a wider sense.

It?s tricky. On the one hand I know that my husband would like to be more intimate and is making the effort to be demonstrative and affectionate. But I find myself deliberately holding back ? I don?t want to give him 100% of myself again because it?s too high risk. I need to keep a little kernel of myself safe and away from him.

And how can you be intimate with someone when you are (necessarily) holding something back? I don't know the answer to that.

I think that you cannot expect to feel the same again ? at least, not unalloyed, open, trusting, romantic love. But maybe, given time, a love can grow back which is not fairy tale, but is perhaps more equal, more realistic ? more human. I don?t know ? we?re not there yet, but we are trying. Maybe this new love is literally like scar tissue. Not pretty, but tough.

I also think that you have to really try not to let yourself become defined by the infidelity. I am determined not to become in my own mind, ?the woman whose husband sleeps with escorts and his work colleague? and not to let this become the central event in my life which colours everything else. This is hard to do, but I am trying to refocus myself as an individual ? not always by reference to him and the things he has done.

With many apologies for this hijack - hello to WWIFN! (I don?t really want bump my own dismal thread again - sorry). Thanks for your message yesterday on another thread. I did read yours and Karmann?s comments about a life coach and plan to pursue this in Sept (after school holidays) ? and thanks very much once again for your thoughts. Briefly, I am much, much better than I was. I?ve got back my enthusiasm for life again and I?m doing things again (the garden, sorting out a loft extension).

Before, I felt completely broken and consumed by panic and fear, but I feel much more in control now. Of course I think about it, but now I don?t get all those awful physical stress symptoms when I do and I don?t feel compelled to think about it all the time - just churning things over and over in my head.

Despite my whinging in my last update, in retrospect, I am really grateful for my counselling and felt that it has allowed me to look this awful thing in the eye and break it down into expressible chunks that I can deal with. My h and I have talked at length (which we'd been unable to do before)and he has been saying and doing all the right things. I do honestly think that we have a chance to make this right again.

Sorry AuntieMaggie that this has been focused on me and my story...but I do hope that there are few little things in here that may be of some help to you too.

whenwillifeelnormal - do you really want to know all the "information about the affair; things that happened, things that were said by either party; the feelings felt or expressed? "

isn't that just raking it over and over, and tormenting yourself.

isn't it better if some things are just omitted?

Different people want to know different things.

Personally, I agree with WWIFN because you need to know the truth. You need to know that that time your h went away with work but really went to see ow, you weren't mad for being suspicious. Things start to fall into place and you can understand why your h was acting like he was and what was going on in his life at the time.

It isn't raking it up - it is facing up to what happened and dealing with it.

I realise that most men would be happy to mutter a "sorry" (in a kevin-the-teenager stylee) and then everything return to normal but that isn't possible.

StubbornHubby I could write a book in reply to you, but it very much depends on the person and the relationship. For me, yes, it was essential that I knew everything. I've never been the sort to put my head in the sand. Very often too, the unfaithful party comforts himself that giving such information is counter-productive, because it will hurt too much etc. And that is partly true, but very often the primary reason for with-holding information is to diminish culpability.

So the only way forward is to give what information, the betrayed partner says they need. You mustn't second-guess them or patronise them by deciding "what's best for them", or by telling lies of omission. Not everyone wants to know, but if they do, they must be told.

I have often said that I could only forgive when I knew all there was to forgive.

Thank you all.

I think (hope) its just a time thing.

He has been brutally honest with me about what happened and answered every silly little thing I wanted to know. He has taken complete responsibility and does understand the consequences of what happened and regrets those.

"What behaviours and character traits led to the infidelity? How must these change?" I need to think more about that one.

"Do any vulnerabilities remain, in terms of lifestyle, relationships with family/friends that don't support fidelity?" No I don't think so.

"Do you have a shared understanding of the affair - its cause, its meaning, its effect?" Again something I need to think about.

I think we're going the right way but yes he does have some growing up to do and has done an awful lot since this.

With regards to when we have children - yes those questions need to be answered as much as he can do in advance before we have children. But to be honest with you I think he'll be a great dad (don't want to go into too much detail as why incase anyone recognises why in RL but lets just say he's had experience with family and friends children for more than a few hours)

stubbornhubby - yes it is better to know. Your imagination is worse.

WhenwilI- Yes, thankyou, DH is working at it. So am I. 2 steps forward, 1 step back sometimes but hey ho we're still here, just.

I think AuntieMaggie is stuck in limbo to a certain extent and I have every sympathy with her. Sometimes it just feels like it happened, you can't change that so nothing will make it better, but utter remorse and effort on the partners behalf does help.

Also the little things do matter - it's about re-engaging with the life they withdrew from. No, emptying the bins does not make for a fabulous marriage, but thoughtfulness and care over all aspects of family life demonstrate where priorites lie and send a message.

Oh - also I think that it is right not to define yourself as the victim.

I do not think of myself as a victim, I know what's great attractive and likeable about me - and I know what's not. One of the best things about me is that i have my priorities straight, I know who and what comes first with me and I know what matters. This has helped me deal with other significant life changes and given me strength.

On the other hand I see my DH with different eyes. I used to see him as strong, now I see him as weak. I uswed to see him as principled and ethical, now I do not. However in some ways this insight also helps as I now understnad some of the (minor) frustrations we have had in the past come simply from his personality and mine.