Archers thread #193: Christmas in Ambridge! Don't expect any wise men (or women). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a couple of acquaintances to clean and tidy your house without your permission, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/5457344-the-archers-spoilers-thread-11-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

What do we think - best Christmas ever followed by a nice quiet New Year? No, me neither. We have the tractor run to look forward to , and then whatever they've got lined up for the 75th anniversary of the first ever episode - New Year's Day 1951. I can't imagine that anybody involved with the programme then expected it would still be on the air 75 years later. I wonder what they would make of the current direction. The lack of farming content would be a surprise, given that was the whole reason for devising the programme in the first place.

Over to you!

I’m baffled by the level of concern for a silent cypher of a character. There would be little dramatic impact to Keira being harmed as we don’t ‘know’ her and therefore can’t really care about her (or so I would have assumed).

C’mon, George, pull finger and do something dastardly: the audience is getting restless.

It won’t be about Keira though will it? It will be about Emma who will finally have to face up to what George has become when she is forced to choose which of her children to support. And it will be about Ed who has continued to cover for George - his step-son and nephew - to protect Emma and will now be horrified to find he has put his own daughter in danger. Ed knows the risks - that’s why he rushed home. I wondered if George might attack Emma, but I think it’s becoming clear now that Keira will be his next victim and there will be no coming back from that.

If Esme is going to hang around for a few years, I do hope somebody can persuade her to pop into the cereal cupboard for a few weeks and emerge with a less annoying accent. Budge up, Amber, and give her some tips.

yes please!!!

I can’t see Emma finding it much of a dilemma which to support. George is the favoured child.

But Keira is Ed’s child and that will be the real dilemma.

I think free booze is guaranteed to draw a fair few people.

@Eastie77Returns , I was about to say 'but Keira's much older than Poppy. Poppy's only little'. Poppy is 12! How did that happen?
Keira's 14.
They've been in the cereal cupboard too long.

@BeatriceBatchelor , in a small village, it would be a big draw, as would the free booze.

Can still feel concern about a silent character, she's still significant. It's the idea of her being very vulnerable and Emma potentially refusing to see what's really going on for me. I agree, with PP that she needs to be told about how he's been losing control lately.

I think it's been simmering since long before he went to prison. He started to get really nasty towards women in general. Hannah, Emma, Helen...

The conundrum with George is that yes he can be a deeply unpleasant misogynist. On the other hand, in his most recent scene with Ed he was full of remorse for hitting him, weeping, wanted to go back to prison and recognised that he has been an ungrateful nightmare. He genuinely wanted to see Martha and sounded bereft at not being allowed to spend time with his cousin (and it sounded as if she enjoyed seeing him). It’s therefore difficult for me to believe he is beyond redemption. I’ve said before that the biggest obstacles to George making real progress are his parents and Ed who are completely delusional, keep telling him he is not at fault and won’t allow him to take responsibility for his actions. They reward bad behaviour e.g. him to organise a welcome home party on his release from prison!

@SheCharter I had to stop and think about the exact age difference between Poppy and Kiera. I can’t believe they are 12 and 14 either.

He needs to spend a lot of time with grandad Neil.

Dil-Emma, perhaps...

Oh drat. Sorry.

It occurs to me that some of Emma's feelings are coloured by the fact that nobody ever tried to stop her from having Keira the entire time. The fact that someone else wanted George enough to argue the toss about having access to him has been part of Emma's feelings about George since he was less than a year old, and there is nothing that cements someone's strong possessive feelings as thoroughly as possibly being deprived of the thing in question. (Anyone who has ever tried to get rid of a toy that a child has not touched or apparently cared about for a year and more knows about this one!)

Good episode.

Bit on the mawkish side, I thought. One does not think of a sibling - or even a child - who died nearly thirty years ago a hundred times a day.

Someone I knew whose child died while being born was very upset about three years later when he realised he had not thought of that baby all day. I think some people do try to keep their dead in mind; I'm not sure thirty years and multiple times every day is all that realistic.

I don't know
if you are still living in the place where they lived and constantly doing jobs they did, surrounded by others who are also related, I can imagine they might pop into your head many times a day. Maybe not 100s though.

When on holiday in the UK this year, I realised with a start that I hadn't thought of my late DH one day (nine years gone now). This was the first time ever. I didn't feel sad about it, just surprised. I didn't attach undue significance to it in the sense of Ooh I've "moved on". I'm not aware of him being on my mind so often, but imagine that at home I'm surrounded by so many reminders of him that it's like background music - nearly wrote noise!

I can imagine the upset for a dead child as there are fewer physical reminders to prod the memory, so it might feel like a personal failing to not think of them consciously.

As for TA, I'm not convinced about the hundreds of times a day memories either.

What I found odd tonight was that, in all that discussion about John and having an event that would be lovely because it would include the grandchildren, no-one once mentioned Johnny.

I think at the moment it might well be (or feel like) hundreds of times a day, given that a significant birthday is coming up, and when grief is at the forefront of your mind it's hard to remember the times it's been more in the background. So if feels like it's always been hundreds of times.

I quite enjoyed that episode - but I listened to it just after a birthday dinner with my sister, part of which involved reminiscences about our late brother. One of which made me laugh so much wine nearly came out of my nose. So in keeping with the evening for me.

It's all too easy to imagine George being ratty towards Keira, her saying something like "I'm not surprised Amber decided to leave!" and the red mist descending upon George. We haven't heard anything about him making an appointment with Azra, or any other doctor, to address his anger management issues, have we?

🧐

MN is conducting rewarded research into ‘ongoing threads’. Why?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5462547-is-this-actually-mn-because-it-seems-odd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Yes, I got that email with a link to a questionnaire, and a request to agree to an interview over Zoom or similar. I said no to that as I can't really see the point. The questions were essentially all 'Why do you start/contribute to ongoing threads?' and there are only so many times I can say 'Because I like talking about The Archers with other listeners'.

I don't think the 'hundreds of times a day' comment was meant to be taken literally. I was pleased to hear the Bridge Farm Archers decorating the tree together. One of the annual events I always enjoy hearing. Also relieved that there have been multiple mentions of the Ambridge Christmas lights switch on, although we didn't have a scene set during that this year. Tractor run on Christmas Eve?

(Agree, though, that it is very odd that in all this talk of John there is no talk of his son. Have the SWs decided that inventing him was a previous Editor's aberration and they will just try to pretend he doesn't exist now? I hope not.)

In the current state of the NHS, would it do any good for George to ask for help? The waiting list is probably years long.

I was pleased to hear the Bridge Farm Archers decorating the tree together. One of the annual events I always enjoy hearing. Also relieved that there have been multiple mentions of the Ambridge Christmas lights switch on, although we didn't have a scene set during that this year. I agree. I love these set pieces - and I loved the reference to the fact the tree would usually be decorated on Christmas Eve, but that will presumably be taken up with the tractor run. I didn’t find the reminiscences mawkish at all - there is always a John shaped hole at Bridge Farm his loss continues to cast a huge shadow. He was very much a fully formed person when he died so there is truly a sense of a life cut short - Tom’s pigs were once his pigs, the tractors (obviously) I don’t find it surprising that there are reminders of him everywhere. It does beg the question of why there was no mention of Johnny - John’s true legacy - who seems to have been completely wiped from the board.