Archers thread #193: Christmas in Ambridge! Don't expect any wise men (or women). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a couple of acquaintances to clean and tidy your house without your permission, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/5457344-the-archers-spoilers-thread-11-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

What do we think - best Christmas ever followed by a nice quiet New Year? No, me neither. We have the tractor run to look forward to , and then whatever they've got lined up for the 75th anniversary of the first ever episode - New Year's Day 1951. I can't imagine that anybody involved with the programme then expected it would still be on the air 75 years later. I wonder what they would make of the current direction. The lack of farming content would be a surprise, given that was the whole reason for devising the programme in the first place.

Over to you!

Nope she hasn't changed for me! The villagers all seem to love her!
I'd love it if there was a couple of longstanding characters who confide in each other about how thoroughly irritating they find her 😂 that would be more realistic!

Joy had no interest in Tony. It was Tom who jumped to the ludicrous assumption they were having an affair and confronted Joy about it on Christmas Day a few years back. She was mortified and Tony furious.

So it seems the fates are aligning - Meadow Farm appears out of nowhere with an eligible (though never-before-heard-of heir), Josh announces he has money to invest in his girlfriend’s band. He is confined to quarters with Lily so they can both opine their lack of inheritance then low and behold Nina dumps Josh, David reminds us all that he and Ruth would never have got together if Sophie hadn’t dumped him and the scene is set. It feels highly contrived, but I’ll take it if it means we get more farming. We’ve lost Grange Farm and Willow Farm in my lifetime so there’s definitely room for expansion and Josh needs a project and a personality. Bring it on!

Isn’t Grange Farm trundling on in the background? Oliver only sold a section of the land, didn’t he? I admit I’m very vague about what it actually produces right now. So I guess it is pretty much lost to our ears.

I’d be glad if someone who didn’t get a Third in Equity and has never had to think about farm tenancies outside TA could explain why I’m reading in one place that family inheritance is restricted to actual long term working farming offspring, and in another place that any young fool with a dad who rented a farm can just turn up and have it?

I think they might be teeing Esme up for Ben and Josh’s & Nina’s break-up is a red herring.

I’m surprised he mentioned Sophie. Didn’t her reappearance ultimately lead to Ruth’s dalliance with young Sam…

...why was it news when Helen said to Tom and Tony about Chris spitting up with his girl friend... Alice is their first cousin.

David reminds us all that he and Ruth would never have got together if Sophie hadn’t dumped him IIRC he said met, and he would have met Ruth because she did her work placement at Brookfield. Them getting together probably was due to Sophie dumping him.

I think the legalities behind farm tenancy inheritance is complicated. I seem to remember that you could buy the farm, but I can't remember (and probably wouldn't have been told) much, I was young at the time. A friend's father died, and I think the widow bought the farm, and her brother kept it going training the eldest son until he was old enough to take on the farming.

They were, and still are, a lovely family. It must have been tough for my friend's mother - widowed with 4 school-age children and the business to sort out.
Why aren't there lovely families in Ambridge?

This is what I read at the start of the Meadow Farm story:

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/tenancies-rents/tenancy-succession-advice-on-meeting-the-suitability-test

So I guess Esme is saying her father’s tenancy was established before 1984?

It seems vanishingly unlikely to me that a woman who couldn’t wait to get away from the family farm has decided, after a handful of weeks of relying on strangers to do most of the work, that she’s capable of running the farm and entitled to have it. She’s had her entire life to train for it if that had been what she wanted.

(I am furious on Josh’s behalf.)

The SWs almost certainly won’t get it quite right, but for plot purposes I’m content to skip over this if the ends justifies the means of bringing a new farm into play. I see it as an acknowledgement from the SWs that they need to keep farming front and centre stage even if it requires a bit of poetic licence to do so. Grange Farm is not much more than Grundys’ Field now is it? Or the bit of land where Ed keeps his Texels.

am furious on Josh’s behalf She and Josh will run it together - that’s what David’s Sophie comment was all about.

(I am furious on Josh’s behalf.) I am delighted for Josh. He'll get a farm and a wife, even if the SWs had to invent them.

I'm not sure how much land there is with Grange Farm. How big was it before Oliver sold the 10 acres to Miles?

Typo alert:
The Fairborther's welcome Anthony Stewart Head into their family but others in Ambridge might not be so happy to see him. Anyone told Jill?* Or Elizabeth?
(BBC Blogs - The Archers)

Well, that’s as may be - but he doesn’t know that yet. He will feel crushed - after all the work he’s put in for the scheming *^#% …

@Eastie77Returns thanks for the clarification re Joy. My recollection was that she was definitely very over-persistent with Tony, even if she didn’t actually have designs upon him - as her character has developed, that monomaniacal trait is certainly one she seems to possess (see: the wretched tractor parade).

However, I’m more than happy to have it demonstrated that Tom was as much of an arse back then as he still is now.

@TottersBlatantlyTowardsTheBaileys , he doesn't need to know. We know.
He's paid to feel crushed, whereas we aren't.

I don't think Tom isn't an arse. When he was made they forgot to give him certain qualities like empathy and tact.

I think Grange farm might have shrunk over the years (perhaps it was slimming down to make space for Meadow Farm and Bridge Farm’s orchard!).

Oliver sold a bit of the land to Rob Titchener’s brother, Miles. I have a feeling that Ed had some Texel sheep on it (does he still have sheep; I seem to remember that they were eventually allowed to stay). The land is in trust for Gideon (which no doubt pleases Henry no end).

I’m wondering where the turkeys are kept? I can’t remember when the “bring the birds in” order came from DEFRA, but I imagine that it was problematic for a free range/on the cheap turkey farmer. Maybe he has an enormous barn we’ve never heard about? Josh must also be having headaches about it.

Scared now … I asked Google AI, who said Oliver still had 40 acres of farmland, having sold 10 to Titchner. However - it also thinks ‘Ardil’ (sic) is / was Caroline’s son in law. 🙄

Anyway, The Torygraph probably has a more secure handle on things, and they concur with 40 acres.

The Archers farms that would be obliterated by Labour’s ‘tractor tax’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/d43d3c99f2380067

The polebarn is on a very small field that the Grundy's managed to buy when they got the money for giving up their milk quota. They nominally rented an adjoining field from Brookfield, to get their holding of land up to a size where they were allowed planning permission to build a barn.
I paid close attention at the time, thinking it was a PSA on how to build your own barn without backhanders to the council.

We think Hazel hasnt paid the builders hence the state of Chris’s flat
It does make me wonder how Super Farmer Esme has all this knowlegde from nowhere. I don’t think the silage will turn up

Grange Farm has forty acres of land; not so much a farm as a small-holding. When Oliver bought the farmhouse he bought fifty acres with it, and he has recently sold ten acres without asking permission from the Grundys, which infuriated Eddie. Ed keeps his Texels there, and they grow some hay for winter feeding.

Grundys' Field was originally three acres when they bought it in 2003 with the money from their unused milk quota, but when they built the pole-barn there out of old telegraph poles and galvanised sheet, and Lynda complained to the planning authority about it and they lost appeals and were summonsed to demolish it, David rented them another however much was needed to make it up to the legal amount for agricultural buildings on it not needing planning permission. I think it was about twice as many acres as they had originally bought. (The regulation was all in hectares, and it was therefore complicated when they insist in talking acres on air.)

Lowfield, 27th January 2004
Later, David tells Ruth about his plans to help Joe. He's discovered that Joe only needs to rent a few more acres and he could build his pole barn legitimately. So - David reckons they should rent a bit of Brookfield land to the Grundys. Ruth's a bit taken aback, but she agrees.
and the following day
Sadly Joe gets Ed to help him pull down the pole barn. They're just going to saw up the first pole for gateposts when David rushes up to stop them. He tells them what he's found out, and offers to rent them the necessary six acres of land, with a proper agreement.

I've been looking up generational tenancies, which were a thing 41+ years ago. It took me 5 minutes to find (and presumably Esme and the SWs are equally able to sit at a computer and use google). According to NFU online prospective applicants need to be both eligible AND suitable:
Eligibility test:
a) An appropriately close relative (so being Mulligan's daughter is okay) 🙂
b) Principal source of livelihood test - i.e. the applicant to show that their main source of income has been derived from agricultural work on the farm for at least five of the previous seven years, though this need not be a continuous period (Oops😪)

If they cannot meet this criteria, they would need to make an application to show they can meet the test to a material extent. So, whilst each case would be different, the test may be satisfied if the applicant can show they have derived a substantial amount of their income or spent a substantial amount of their time working on the farm. (Oops, I don't think 2 months really counts 😢)

Suitability test:
The applicant needs to satisfy a suitability test based on age, fitness, finances and their agricultural experience and qualifications (Oops 😭)

The applicant usually has 3 months to do this from the date of death (which I think was on/before 13 October).

More details here: www.nfuonline.com/updates-and-information/aha-tenancies-and-succession-explained/

So the race is on...Will Esme pretend to fall for Josh simply to secure her future at the farm or will the farm-owner favour the Maliks. Who is the landlord, I wonder? I bet Shula would know, having worked at Rodways.

Yes, @Madcats. (I think I linked all that a couple of threads ago. And again above.)

What’s being broadcast makes no sense to me. A person knowing that they are in line to inherit a generational tenancy surely does one of two things:

a) Informs their parent they’re not interested - thus giving them time to sort out their affairs.

b) Wags their tail rapturously and gets stuck in from childhood. Probably acquiring some sort of farming / business qualification along the way.

We’ve already had Ruairi run fast in the opposite direction and then return as the most prodigal son in the whole history of sons. But at least his dad owns the farm.

(I don’t know why it’s all making me feel slightly irate. I’ve known several ‘gentleman farmers’ whose land was worked by employees - and I’ve seen and heard from lots of tenant farmers at third hand. The SWs turning Esme into not just a clueless, whiny incomer but an entitled one is doing my head some serious damage.)

Catching up a bit with posts but wrt Joy, she blithely mentioned having bought a big turkey a few episodes ago - contrast with Tracy - again I was wondering where Joy's bottomless pit of money comes from!

Surely the sw see or hear of some of the online chat about Joy. They need to address it. I think she had a very good inheritance. They should have just mentioned something briefly when she first moved in.

I've jumped in and out of the Archers threads for the past month so apologies for missing Totters comments about tenancies.

Is it normal to be begging for turkey orders with less than a week to go before the big day? I feel sure I used to need to sort out that sort of thing so the farmers to manage their stock/growth etc. by mid November? Still I suppose it wouldn't be Christmas without Clarrie and Eddie fretting about plucking and selling the things.

If Esme is going to hang around for a few years, I do hope somebody can persuade her to pop into the cereal cupboard for a few weeks and emerge with a less annoying accent. Budge up, Amber, and give her some tips.

Absolutely no apology needed, @Madcats - I’m just frustrated that no matter how often I read the information I still don’t understand the way the SWs are writing the story!

I’ve been recalling (whether here or elsewhere, can’t remember) how my parents used to drive to a turkey farm, seemingly in autumn, to pick out their chosen live turkey. So I also find it strange that they’re not all accounted for a week before they’re to be eaten.