Archers thread #193: Christmas in Ambridge! Don't expect any wise men (or women). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love a couple of acquaintances to clean and tidy your house without your permission, or other unusual views.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

What do we think - best Christmas ever followed by a nice quiet New Year? No, me neither. We have the tractor run to look forward to , and then whatever they've got lined up for the 75th anniversary of the first ever episode - New Year's Day 1951. I can't imagine that anybody involved with the programme then expected it would still be on the air 75 years later. I wonder what they would make of the current direction. The lack of farming content would be a surprise, given that was the whole reason for devising the programme in the first place.

Over to you!

I'm still hoping the executors will refuse to refund Ruairi and any of the travel bills and the costs of the Blackpool stay.

Yes it was a weird way of saying about John. "Died" is so vague. You'd say killed in an accident surely. Joy is such an odd character, she just doesn't work on so many levels. Why does she act like she's known the Archer family for decades? She was talking to Esme like she was in the village at the time it happened. Also, surely Esme, being linked to the farming world would have heard about John. Do we know how long her Dad had the tenancy? I suppose maybe it happened before they were there? It's all so clunky, making up a whole new farm and somehow the farmers daughter has zero knowledge of the village.

And why is Joy so obsessed and involved with the tractor run anyway?! These things are organised by the farming community. Ok, I need to stop thinking about Joy now, not good for the stress levels!

But in fact I think it will never be mentioned again. It’s another example of a disconnected storm in a teacup - the drama of the will and then the Archers away days all entirely unbelievable in the grand scheme of things. Personally I think it was a poor legacy for Peggy who was a titanic figure in Ambridge and whose tentacles of influence should have continued to be felt from beyond the grave instead of being stubbed out with that unsatisfactory bequest.

IKR … I wasted half a lifetime wondering which of the clan would inherit The Lodge. And there were so many potential storylines around shifts in power and influence according to who got the money.

The creative team has amputated that entire thread of storytelling.

Recent joiner to this thread (although not the Archers) and very glad to have found it! I haven’t gone back very far so it’s probably already been said but why do the SW have Joy saying “an’all” so often? I know IRL people do say the same phrases but I have snagged on it and now get “blah blah an’all blah blah blah” when she speaks. That’s it - just needed to get it off my chest!

Welcome, @ivyleafgeranium! You're in good company here. We all have all sorts of Archers-related bugbears, as you will see.

Totters, 100% agree about the lack of inheritance storylines. So annoying. You only need to skim through the active threads on Mumsnet to see that inheritance is a source of drama and distress in a great many families. The Brookfield Archers had an epic row about this after Phil and Jill stepped back from the running of the farm. Why can't we have something like that now for Bridge and Home Farms? Can we envisage anything similar for Brookfield now? No, because Josh and Ben just seem totally resigned to inheriting nothing. Come on, SWs!

Can't believe that Esme needed telling about a young man dying on a farm a few miles from her home. Surely she would have known about it at the time even if she didn't know John personally.

It felt a l lot more ‘telling’ than ‘showing’, which seems to be happening more and more in the Archers. And as others have said why does Joy have the right to impart this information?

I’m finding the whole Esme storyline incredibly irritating, and her accent is driving me up the wall!!!

I'm not sure how old Esme is but John would have been 50 on New Year's Eve. Esme must be within a few years one side or another of 30, surely, so would probably not remember the accident, which Google tells me happened on 25/2/1998. Cripes. Even further ago than I remembered.

@Choccyp1g , Esme was probably a toddler when John was killed. I doubt she'd have been aware of it at the time.

A farmer's son from the other side of the vale died in a farming accident when I was a young adult, and it still gets mentioned.
He was lovely. Some deaths make no sense at all.

The tractor run is a big deal because of John, who died tragically because he wanted to leave The Archers.

What’s the difficulty with TomTash just bundling the twins into their carseats in their PJs AFTER the tractor run and driving to Wales at night?

It can only be a 3-4 hour drive at most.

Sleeping toddlers must be a lot easier to cope with (and how we often coped with tedious drives when DD was a pre-schooler).

I appreciate that it involves venturing beyond the bypass, but the way they all keeping saying “Wales” in shocked tones a new listener would assume that Ambridge must be near Dover!

"Wales" is as near as dammit the next county over from Ambridge, and fairly meaningless in terms of driving times and distances. It all depends where in Wales Natasha's parents now live; if they are in Knighton or Builth they're quite local, if they are in Pembroke or Bangor they're a fair old drive away and the roads are dire for much of it: they'd be better off driving to Bangor at night or in the early hours.

I wouldn't say John was "killed" in an accident when he was the only person involved; I'd say he had died in it. Killed would suggest to me that he ran into or was run into another vehicle, as opposed to turning the tractor over on himself without anyone else being present. But I would definitely say "died in an accident" because otherwise he might have died of leukaemia or strangles or something.

Goodness, "he passed in an accident" sounds silly! and so does "he passed of leukaemia".

@Madcats , it would be over 3 hours I think, and the midlands and that part of Wales can get snow in December. I wouldn't fancy the journey at the best of times. It's by A roads, scenic in the summer but not in bleak midwinter.

If I'm right, Ambridge is about 60 miles from Wales as the crow flies, but that's to the southernmost part of mid-Wales. Natasha's parents live in the Eryri national park, up in the north. About 10 miles from the north coast.

No idea what time the tractor run is, but I'd not be too thrilled to have my frazzled daughter, twonk son-in-law and two fractious three year-olds turn up at 22:30 hrs.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , they're in Capel Curig, which isn't far from Bangor (about 15 miles). Tom referred to it as Betws (Betws-y-Coed) the other day.

Natasha and her mother have accents suggesting they are from the most southern part of Wales (Cardiff and Port Talbot), quite dissimilar to that of the Betws-y-Coed area.

Thanks! I have to admit to not being even slightly interested in them, if I am honest, so that simply slid over me and left no trace in my mind.

I am fascinated with them. Why are the accents so different. Why did they relocate from the industrial South to the rural north? Did Caitlin deliberately look for a Mr Thomas to marry? Why did Natasha end up in the Midlands? We don't really know anything about her, and like other Archer brides, she is an only child.

Does Jolene have siblings? Does/did Jill? Pat? Kenton's ex-wife?
Ruth didn't and neither does Esme.

Does that mean that Amber will marry Freddie? (I hope not.) Does it rule out Chelsea for him? (I hope not.)

For anyone who might be interested:

The Brookfield Archers had an epic row about this after Phil and Jill stepped back from the running of the farm

Oh I would have loved to have heard that!

Come on Ben and Josh - man up and kick off!

It took Elizabeth and Kenton (both entitled beyond words, and one very nasty with it) to create that epic row, and it was no real fun. Neither Ben nor Josh has the sheer malice to make a go of it: Elizabeth regarded Ruth getting cancer as having been done on purpose to do Elizabeth out of "her share" of the farm.

Which will come as a huge shock to David and Ruth. How could they have known their sons felt left out?!

The inheritance rows were glorious (which is why I am so cross that the SWs have tried to ignore the issues for the past decade). I'm not sure we'll hear from Shula again, but it would be glorious for Daniel to pop back to deal with "Stables issues" and mention how Helen/Tom, Lily/Freddie and Pip/Josh/Ben need to sort out who takes over. Now the twins are 26, and Freddie should be running LL, it deserves far more of a mention even if it is Lizzie saying that he needs to get in professional help.

I never understand how, after all the Sturm und Drang of his beginnings, Dan has been so completely disappeared and shows no interest in claiming his inheritance. (Although I guess that’s somewhat diminished thanks to Justin’s colonisation.)

Well, now I’m thoroughly confused.

Never mind …

And the prize for crass this week goes to The Archers for that reference to Lily surfing, or rather to that reference to where she would be doing it.

I wondered about that. Obviously it was recorded ages ago and slipped through today. A bit of an oversight.