Archers thread #192: Village of the Dammed. Discuss the beavers here. Throw in the odd word about the Archers if you must.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to have Kate present as you give birth, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

I'm more excited about the arrival of the beavers than anything else going on in Ambridge at the moment. I hope there will be a webcam.

Bets on how much of next week is set in the castle or on the way there/back? I'm bracing myself for at least 50%.

Or he'd connect his phone to WiFi and use WiFi calling and WhatsApp. Alternatively use mobile Internet if there's a signal for that. It would be unusual to have neither and no phone reception or landline.

I think Tom is not so much concerned with his feelings for Kirsty/Natasha it is all about the lifestyle he thinks he deserves and the image he has of himself.

Natasha was glamorous and successful and appealed to the up and coming businessman side of himself. He was flattered she was interested in him (she was probably more interested in the stability of his family much like Amber and the Grundys).

However Tom has always wanted a cosy family where he is the breadwinner and his wife is at home with the kids (maybe with a small hobby job) and worships him.

He and Brenda split up over their different views of their future. She wanted to build her career and travel. He wanted marriage, babies and a cosy life on the family farm where his sausages provided a living.

He thinks Kirsty might have given him what he wanted, but she probably wouldn't.

He used to look up to Brian when he was starting out and that's the lifestyle he wants. A lovely house and farm as his kingdom and legacy, an attractive intelligent wife at home being the perfect housewife and hostess. Plus some beautiful obedient well educated children to take over the sausage empire when he retires.

He's overlooked the reality of Brian and Jennifer's relationship. He doesn't want an independent feminist wife who expects to be an equal partner and he doesn't want someone who will go out and earn their own living, enjoy their own social life and fail to massage his ego.

He is also feeling neglected because his wife has other priorities and he's jealous of the attention she gives the children, hence he was keen to leave the twins at home.

(Sorry for wading in after a long absence I haven't been up to date on the Archers for ages)

Welcome back!

She poisoned the goldfish at Grey Gables by pouring gin into their tank, early on in our acquaintance with her. I went right off her at that point.

I listened earlier and really enjoyed that episode.

Henry's outrage ("was he trying it on with you?") was so typically teenage and self righteous (although, Tom was inappropriate... "we'd be together" 🤦‍♀️).

The synopsis refers to stillborn son and ton thinking they’d still be together if he had survived

i thought they had split before then?

Yes, they had split. They had a one night stand after Helen's trial (emotion fuelled, finding comfort in each other) which Kirsty made clear was a one-off very soon after.

Tom and Kirsty had a one night stand! They hadn't been together since 24th April, 2014, when he left her standing at the altar and ran away from their wedding.

As I noted before, the foetus was conceived on 16th September, 2016, and died on 12th February, 2017.

According to the NHS website, in order to qualify as a stillbirth it needs to have been in utero for 25 full weeks. Even if we accept the fiction that a baby is conceived two weeks before intercourse has taken place, Kirsty and Tom's was not in utero for 25 weeks; 23 and two days at most.

Well the sw have form for not understanding the back stories

Definitely true!

The BBC synopsis for the day it happened got it right: "A consultant comes in to do an examination. He tells Kirsty she is having a late miscarriage."

And presumably they also got it right on air, since the Lowfield synopsis for the same day also uses the word miscarriage: "The consultant tells Kirsty that the news is bad. She had an infection and will be delivering the baby soon. The baby is not going to make it; Kirsty is having a late miscarriage."

(I feel strongly about this; one of my five miscarriages missed being a stillbirth by very few days.)

I think it is important to get the language right - it doesn’t diminish the impact

Has Tom learned any Welsh? If Natasha is speaking Welsh to the children, to her mother, and possibly sometimes to Pat, the day will come when he suddenly starts to wonder what they're all saying about him.

He has a tattoo. Sadly, the 'hiraeth' is for Kirsty.

Jakob with Kiwi birthing bantz

Here’s to Leonie the Sheep Wrangler.

And the new arrival! 🎉🎉🎉

I was waiting for Leonie to fall off the crag. I didn't recognise her voice to start with. James sounds like an utter bastard.

Kate is going to be the grandmother from hell. If I were Phoebe I would be planning an imminent move to join the poor kiwis.

And naming the baby after a vindictive and manipulative woman who made no secret of her favourites, isn't the best idea Phoebe's ever had. Wonder if she will have a middle name. Margaret Kate?! Daisy is another diminutive of Margaret - much prettier.

Leonie sounded a bit..unhinged. Very sad that James always tells her she’s useless, Lilian needed to hear that about her precious son.

I’m wondering how Kate put the cab fare on Jakob’s card. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of man who would leave his card with anyone (even a partner). The only other way she could have done it is via an app that had his card stored in it but I don’t think Uber or similar would be operating in a remote corner of Scotland.

Pearl. Greta. Margo(t) or Etta or Mae or Megan for the Scots connection. Maisie.

I had a cousin called Meggie, as opposed to Peggy.

Kate is Katherine Victoria and Alice is Alice Margaret.
I used to have a dog called Peggy.
Peggy is fine and she is named after her great-grandmother, who wasn't called Daisy.
I hope she is Margaret Jennifer. 👶

I hope she is also named after one of Brodie's female relations, and is always known by that name rather than as Peggy.

And I hope she dies, of being dropped by her grandmother when drunk after wetting the baby’s head. Now that would be fun.

Possibly James tells Leonie she’s useless because, you know, she mostly is. Occam’s ladyshave an’ all that.

Would have been nicer if they'd called her Jennifer.
Even though Kate is appalling it was lovely how she was so excited about seeing her first grandchild. I wept when I saw my granddaughter for the first time, took myself completely by surprise.

"They were all speaking English until I walked in"

I think my idea has legs. There was all the OTT flapdoodle when Alice stumbled while hauling Marrthurr to be Christened (spoiler: child was not dunked on that occasion because THE HORROR and Cristyffur had a hissy-fit). But now Alice is being sober, responsible, and to my taste intolerable, can you imagine how the sisterly dynamic would play out? Jam!

Ghastly Kate - I’m so glad she missed the birth. I’ve been rewatching Downton Abbey and recognised Leonard’s voice immediately as Daisy the kitchen maid’s (lovely) FIL. Have I missed an episode? I don’t recall an explanation about Leonard’s supposed fancy woman in the cafe.