Archers thread #187: Send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for Peggy. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Harrison to hasten home, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to John Donne for the title inspiration. The funeral of the century beckons. How much of it do we think we will hear? Kate confirmed tonight that Shula, Debbie, Noli and Sipho are all coming. If we hear one peep from any of them I'll be amazed. Bets on Hazel turning up?

Over to you!

Well given what happened to joys Alsatian I don’t think she can be classed as an animal lover

The funeral planning is utterly tedious. Alan was a brick.

"Muscular" Christianity isn't evangelical; it's its own thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscular_Christianity ), and is not mutually exclusive with being AC (I know at least one AC marathon runner...). And I've played for plenty of funerals where the hymns are discussed with the priest, and/or the organist. I'd say discussing the hymns is more normal than not.

The cat...yeah, normally I'd agree, but Hilda and the general unreasonableness surrounding her is at least well established. It IS completely loopy, though! But I have known a very conventional AC parishioner who regularly brought his poodles...they were meant to wait outside (I think maybe they were supposed to be in the office; I don't remember), but once, one got loose and wandered up the aisle to stand there wagging infront of the Eagle Lectern. The parishioner calmly finished his reading and took the poodle back outside.

The bitchiness infront of randoms was something else! I've encountered the odd bit of...cattiness...among priests, but generally not around randoms, as you say!

If it's 24 hour care, it's still going to be expensive plus a lot of hassle involved.

My DB's life was saved by his girlfriend who knew how to do CPR when his heart stopped out of the blue, so I'm all in favour of CPR enthusiasts. In fact, the whole episode made me a total advocate for everyone having to learn how to do it.

I thought Alan was very good and calming and just had a no fuss attitude to the funeral arrangements. This is what you want when arranging the last goodbye of a loved one.

I agree. Interesting that Keri Davies is a humanist celebrant. I believe he was his Dad's carer latterly (read this here, IIRC).

Poor Alan! I wonder if he’s prayed about the pleasure of having the last laugh …

I did CPR on DH when he had a cardiac arrest in the garden. It was as if someone had pulled his plug out. I had had 30 seconds on a St John Ambulance dummy five years previously and that scant knowledge saved his live until the paramedics arrived. First one glanced at me and told me to keep it up until he'd got his equipment ready, as I was doing a good job! Three massive shocks later and his heart finally restarted.

I neatly lost the will to live. I don't need a step by step of a funeral plan. I want to eavesdrop on a nice rural village and some farms not hear the minutiae of organising something morbid.

It occurs to me that we now know TWO of the hymns: yesterday, we found out that the last hymn is "Abide with me". In the meeting with Crispin, the tune named "St. Clement" was mentioned, which is usually sung to "The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended", at Compline, Evensong, or funerals. Unless Kate and Phoebe changed the last hymn, and nobody tells Jakub, which would be very amusing (for everyone except Jakub).

I enjoyed Kate having to eat humble pie. She was vile to him - very Lady of the Manor and taking on Peggy's role.

That must have been terrifying. Well done for keeping calm and saving his life.

My husband did the Heimlich manoeuvre on me when I swallowed a lump of gristle in a restaurant and totally blocked the airway. That's a birthday present he'll never be able to top!

Excellent hymns for a funeral (I am Church of Scotland by upbringing, atheist in adult life, but I do like a good old-fashioned hymn). If I'd been entrusted with the choice for either of my parents*, I'd probably have gone for Dear Lord and Father of Mankind and The Lord's My Shepherd (Crimond).

*I haven't. Dad left written instructions, which we followed, and Mum has hers ready.

That's brilliant!

The funeral planning is utterly tedious. Alan was a brick.

I think the level of detail was meant to demonstrate how Father Christmas hadn’t actually done much planning or even covered the basics.

@muddyford well done, even with a lot of training coming across a first aid situation can make people go to pieces, let alone a loved one.

I have loved Alan being so calmand lovely. the bit about assuming Crispin had spoken to the funeral directors about the soil -and then asking about anyone who might be movement impaired, implying that (despite his connection with Peggy - and the laurels?) hadn't even thought about that. Brilliant. Absolute class.

And Kate! what introspection in recognising that she had been vile to him. (an apology would have been nice)

As for sporty clergymen. In my army days when i was planning my (ultimately civil) wedding, i spoke to the camp Padre (DH catholic) and he was hilarious, like the one in MASH, offered me a cigarette "i have these, oh and someone left these if you prefer them? oh and i have some menthol from when i had a cold last week... do you want some tea? oh, it's late enough for a G'n'T" (16:30)

The protestant one used to wear a t-shirt bearing the legend "Jog for Jesus" which my troop gave him, he was a marathon runner, and took it in turns with each troop to do PT with them for a month. Brilliant bloke.

I thought this.

Also Father Christmas 🎅 needs to go in the next thread title along with 'I've killed a vicar'.

I thought Alan handled it superbly. Could hear him trying to keep a straight and concerned face whilst inwardly rubbing his hands in glee.

Just shows what even the minimal amount of 'training' at a WI meeting can do!

I thought Alan was very nice about it and the pleasant contrast with Father Christmas was funny.

Quite Father Ted, who’s that priest in that who’s always the object of Ted’s envy?

Btw I’m no theologian, surely muscular Christianity isn’t meant literally?!

<amends previous note>

I would vaguely associate muscular Christianity with the big push in the 19th century to turn public schools into places where boys were trained to run the Empire, uphold Christian values and maintain the status quo. Hours on the rugby pitch, cold baths, compulsory chapel, don't tell tales, stiff upper lip at all times. Mens sana in corpore sano. Nicky Campbell did an interesting series on R4 recently about the history of (boys') public schools. There was a vague promise from his producer that if she could get it commissioned there would be a follow up looking at girls' boarding schools.

The public school my brothers were sent to had the stated aim of churning out "christians, gentlemen and scholars in that order"

As far as I know it wasn't run by muscular christian though.

I think (not that I've read it) that the epitome of muscular Christianity in education is found in Tom Brown's Schooldays. There's at least one very interesting The Rest Is History episode about it.