Archers thread #184: It’s a shambles! And we don’t mean Casey Meats. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're looking forward to Morris dancing on the radio, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Right, to business. I can't say I'm delighted that the focus is on Rochelle and Casey Meats at the moment, because I'm not. All far too peripheral to Ambridge and too new. As I say ad nauseam, more farming storylines please, and where are all the long-standing members of the cast? The discussion about inheritance tax in The Bull the other night was a bit clunky, but what a refreshing change to hear two familiar voices, both farmers, talking about farming-related stuff, even if BBC balance meant they had to be challenged by two non-farmers, and even if it is months after the Budget introduced these changes. Ah well.

I was tempted to put one of my Dad's terrible jokes into the thread title as an oblique reference to George's coffin-making idea, but it wouldn't have made sense to anyone else. He loved referring to the cemetery as the Dead Centre of the island, so I was pondering something about Grange Farm becoming the Dead Centre of Ambridge. It could happen yet. Emma and Ed could provide willow branches and Clarrie could sit in the kitchen weaving them. Surely it must be similar to knitting?

Finally, if the SWs are lurking and looking for new storylines, it's been very dry recently and there have been lots of wildfires in rural areas. There was a bad one on Gaspmother Island a few days ago. Many farmers are very worried about this at the moment, as reported on Farming Today last week. But what am I thinking! This is a story that only works in a rural setting, so in the current incarnation of TA, it's not soapy enough.

Over to you!

There’s many ways Joy could have come by her money but it’s odd that there has been absolutely no mention of it

i suppose Rochelle needs a love interest to try and tie her into the village so the ambridgites and the audience are invested in her. It’s not working for me - it feels like a drop in story and, as a pp said, she and her mum could disappear tomorrow and it would make no difference overall

I think if the SWs had thought about this a bit harder that would have been perfectly possible - Rochelle could have accused Joy of abandoning her/never having any time for her because she was too busy working. Joy could have countered the attacks by Rochelle with: "But I had to go out to work pet. Those baton-twirling costumes didn't pay for themselves. I had to be the one to earn the money and thank God I did - how else do you think I could afford this house?" And instead of talking about putting a bit of money aside for Rochelle she could have said she'd sold some shares or used some other phrase indicating how she's made her money. I actually think this would have been more satisfactory and believable than the scenario we are expected to believe with the rotting Alsatian. If Joy had her own business then it has never so much as been hinted at. Even if she hid her light under a bushel when she arrived in Ambridge, trying to reinvent herself as a homely, housewifely sort of woman, it would surely have been one of the first things Rochelle threw in her face when she turned up out of the blue - instead she made a comment along the lines of Joy having done rather well for herself, as if she was surprised Joy could afford to live in such a smart, executive home.

Re the suggestion that Rex could end up with Helen, I did wonder about that when she was telling him he was a lovely man that a woman could settle down and have a future with. So maybe that's what the SWs have in store for him after he has proved his manly credentials by foiling Rochelle's dastardly plot. But, please, no! What has Rex ever done to deserve Helen?

I thought Helen was talking to him as junior to her in a way so I would be surprised if something came of it

i think he and Kirsty should get together, but a camper van and go travelling

very odd for Rochelle the animal rights campaigner to be ok with dating a pig farmer

Will Jill and Peggy be going up Lakey Hill in the 4x4 on VE Day? I am assuming one of them will be killed off as the embers of the beacon die away.

Probably Peggy, as what will happen to Leonard if Jill dies?

I don't think it would be realistic for David and Ruth (who may have died herself given how long it is since we heard her!) to continue offering bed and board to him indefinitely after Jill's death. He may be striding up Lakey Hill, mending stiles and tearing down notices today, but he could be quite different in a year's time. Maybe I am unusually selfish but, looking after the ever increasing needs of my own elderly mother has convinced me that I would not willingly take on the care of an unrelated old person, however lovely.

What will happen to Leonard if Jill dies? I don't think the SWs would have the same qualms about bumping off Leonard when the time comes - he's a recent addition after all (albeit he has slotted in much better than some other newbies). The problem arises with cast stalwarts who are elevated to such a god-like status that they can't be allowed to die even when they have long-outlived any useful contribution to the programme. I miss Jenny, but better to have her dead than silently off-stage somewhere blocking other plot developments which would naturally require her input. Similarly with Shula (not dead, but might as well be) and Roy - sad to see them go, but let's get used to moving on without them. Killing Jill (I can hardly bring myself to type the words in relation to such an Archers icon) would unlock the possibilities for developing the other characters at Brookfield instead of having to pussy-foot around to avoid anything that should naturally involve the matriarch.

The SWs have left it too late to give a plausible back story for Joy. It's credible that Pat, Elizabeth and even Helen wouldn't have pressed her for information when she arrived if she didn't want to tell them but La Snell and Radio Carter would have, but it's too late now.

When she first got involved in organising the village fete she told Lynda she'd worked in a department store but no details about in what capacity.

Re killing Jill, fine but can we keep Leonard? Given the flexibility about the size, location and ownership of houses in Ambridge could Jill find a forgotten cottage down the back of a sofa and leave it to Leonard?

Maybe Rex should get together with Kirsty, another bad picker.

Maybe Joy inherited the money? From her parents or a spinster aunt/bachelor uncle.

Joy and Leonard seemed very compatible on their walk. I could more imagine him with someone like her- more active and out-and-about in the world than 120-year-old Jill chained to the ironing board. If Leonard is late-70s it wouldn’t be unreasonable to have a gf in her mid-60s.

Rochelle offering a few kisses was a bit of a strange line but I suppose it was pre-watershed. I think what she really meant was shags. It is impossible to accept her as an activist because she seems so uninterested in anything. She has no real values at all and zero interest in the outside world. Mia was convincing as an activist but I could name about 20 other characters who would be better suited to being an undercover agent in the abattoir than Rochelle.

@JoelenesParrot I thought it meant shags too! I don't think there is a watershed on the radio though. Rex comes across very needy and insecure to be love bombing her, especially someone with very little going for her personality-wise, she must be an absolute stunner! I had an online date once tell me he was in love with me after three dates. Then he said he didn't like me calling him when I was driving or walking upstairs as he didn't have my full attention, then he decided what our pet names would be (Pooh and Piglet, minimal effort) and sent me a Piglet "to watch over me" ugghh. Rex came across as similarly intense and needy too.

JoelenesParrot
If Leonard is late-70s it wouldn’t be unreasonable to have a gf in her mid-60s.

On VE Day in May1945 he was helping to hang bunting; surely that must make him six or seven then? So he must now be over eighty.

Yep, I think if I were to meet Rex on OLD, I'd find him way too intense too soon and he'd probably be one of the rare few I actually go to the effort of blocking.

I’m not sure what Rex has done to deserve Helen! She is completely dull while also being superior.

Rex talking about "the L word" after only a handful of meetings with Rochelle sounded like a major reduction flag to me. Rochelle's response was very sensible and this was the only time I have ever warmed to her.

Just listening

really can’t take to joy. - her not being a dog person has reinforced it. They seem to fill a lot of her stories with cliche and she’s so school ma’am ish.

Also agree about the mixed messages re cow fields. They’re really hammering home the dog poo but are we to believe the Brookfield cows are unusually passive? And is it Leonard’s place to remove property from David’s field? And why are the elderly so fragile that they can’t see the photo?

yeah Rex is a real red flag. And sounds about 14. I guess well suited to Rochelle. The palm reading was maybe a bit more university level. And a few kisses - bloody hell they’re adults - could they not have used a euphemism at the very least. The conversation was more teen than 40’s

one thing with Rochelle - she is consistent with her mother in the running away from problems stakes and also a bit of the activism too.

That reminds me of a friend of mine whose theory was that, if you break down, you need to open the bonnet and stand over it wielding a large hammer. Eventually some petrolhead won't be able to bear it and will stop to help you.

I thought he'd be at least 86/87, he couldn't be late 70s or he'd have been born after the war. Isn't Jill about 95?

Jill was born in October 1930.

I thought he'd be at least 86/87, he couldn't be late 70s or he'd have been born after the war. Isn't Jill about 95?

If he is literally late-80s then it’s ridiculous to have him zipping around on an electric bike and racing up Lakey Hill with Joy. I know this thread will now fill up with stories about marvellous DMs who are 107 and about to take up hang-gliding but still, in my experience, anyone over 80 as a rule is nowhere near as active as Leonard is portrayed.

I'm going to be one of those people!
My mum is 87, widowed and lives alone, drives, runs her large 5 bed house and does everything in her third acre garden herself, apart from mowing, and walks 4 or 5 miles a day, in all weathers. I frequently go round to see her and she's up a ladder pruning a tree or similar. My siblings and I have given up suggesting that might not be wise. My mum says doing all this keeps her going and I think she makes an important point.

Her brother and male cousin who are only a year younger, regularly drive hundreds of miles to go on holiday, do all their gardening and cycle every single day.

Until he died in his mid 80s my dad was gardening, cycling, walking, driving hundreds of miles to France and Spain on holiday.

Most of my mum's friends are over 80, many are widowed but have continued to live in their large houses with large gardens that they all tend and look after with very little help. Frail 80 year olds, especially women, don't seem to exist in her circles.

My 88-year-old DM also lives alone in a large house with a big garden which she manages single-handed (though has finally conceded she needs a gardener for the lawns and hedges). Active as she is, I couldn't imagine her cycling around the countryside and climbing Lakey Hill via several different routes. I must say I had imagined Leonard to be slightly younger than that, but if he was hanging bunting on VE day he must be at least my mum's age if not older.

Ah, but Leonard were labouring down the mines at the age of two in them days!

Joy isn’t a dog person but used to own an Alsatian… surely you have to be a very big sort of dog person to take on an Alsatian, Cat people tend to go for small and fluffy, not could swallow a cat whole. I could understand if she’d mentioned the Alsatian put her off dogs for life (and I’m sure they are fabulous for the right people, but not a starter dog either).

I liked Rex before and wished he were in more scenes. The smooching made me feel more uncomfortable than watching love scenes on TV as a teenager with my parents in the room. And when did he turn into such a bunny boiler? I thought that was going to be one of Rochelle’s ‘quirks’.

And the dog poo and VE talk made
me wonder if I’d tuned into an episode of blue Peter.

Well given the poor alsatians end I think it actually supports joy not being a dog lover. Probably the husband got the dog