Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

Lilian's 'family at all costs' rant exactly echoes Eddie's.

Ben repeated the claim that Asian hornets were a threat to their crops. I haven't been paying attention, but assume he means things like rapeseed and legumes of some sort (peas? beans? lupins?), which I didn't know they grew at Brookfield. I thought they grew grain and raised cattle. Oh, I suppose they have clover or something for the cattle.

Or perhaps by 'our' he didn't mean Brookfield but the UK farming industry?
(As you can tell, IANAF)

@Hotcrossbunplease surely if every one on the archers felt the same as you there would be no archers. Just a series of nuclear families chatting in their kitchens?

I think Pat did a very brave thing but I think she was also motivated by her loyalty to and respect for Susan and Clarrie. I don’t think either will ever forget this kindness.

@hotcrossbunplease I guess that’s the kind of thing I mean when I talk about a sense of community coming in guises other than a panto and street party. Hope it explains things more clearly.

Yes - ultimately a village is a web of relationships through work, friendships etc and you don’t need the panto to make a community. We get more drama at the shop and in the bull tbh!!

agree that Pat is able to see the bigger picture. Given how Alice has behaved to many of the people that are now being chastised I think she is very lucky they have been so forgiving of her

I guess the nice thing is that we don’t feel Pat acted purely out of self interest, given how reliant Bridge Farm is on maintaining good relations with Carters and Grundys.

If it had been Tom offering a reference …

@WagnersFourthSymphony Or perhaps the SWs haven’t twigged that grain crops are wind pollinated? Though, to be fair, a sizeable chunk of the population doesn’t know they have flowers.

I was genuinely quite moved by Pat's decision to give George a character reference. I agree with @JoelenesParrot that I don't think Susan and Clarrie will ever forget Pat's kindness. Unfortunately I don't have the same confidence that the SWs will remember it if it suits their arbitrary plots needs to have the three women fall out in future.
I'm glad Alice hasn't turned all saintly and forgiving and given him a reference too (as some here predicted). I don't think I could have coped with the intolerable smugness.

Lilian is correct, Pat is a hypocrite. She’s all about redemption unless a member of her own family is impacted by someone’s actions. She pointedly told Tony “Alice is your niece” last week.

Meh. Helen is family. They all now know what a controlling abuser he was, but Pat should accept Alan bring a wet dish rag and allowing the baptism in the church his victim and her family worship at?

In Pat's shoes I'd have reminded her of that, of all the stunts Alice has pulled and punched her in the face.

Yes that’s true - Rob was known to be a controlling abuser and Alan was enabling that. There are many ‘good’ people that enable abusers to continue their abuse because they don’t want o take sides or want to see the abuser as human

whilst Helen was rising above it I think it’s worth noting that domestic abuse can go far beyond the specific victim - Pat and Tony were also impacted and I don’t think their feelings should be dismissed.

the more I think back to that time the more I sympathise with Pat!

Brefugee
Pat should accept Alan bring a wet dish rag and allowing the baptism in the church his victim and her family worship at?

Bruisername
Rob was known to be a controlling abuser and Alan was enabling that.

Alan refused to baptise Rob in Ambridge; he passed him over to someone else (Reverend Nikita Berry), who baptised him in a different church (Downham, ten minutes' drive away). Peggy and Pat (and Susan and Eddie) went off the rails hysterically accusing Alan of something he had not actually done. He had refused to do it precisely in order not to give pain to Helen, Pat, Tony and the rest of his parishioners.

The entire village believed the entirely inaccurate "invitation" to his christening, that Rob sent out to everyone he could think of in order to make trouble for Alan for refusing to baptise him; it succeeded beyond even Rob's expectation. (The footnote which thanked Alan and Usha for their support clearly got believed even though it was a complete lie that Usha had had anything to do with Rob at all.) Helen was about the only one of the family who did believe Alan when he told Pat point-blank that he had not had, and would not have, anything to do with baptising Rob. Except that he turned up at the church on the day, because Rob had begged him to, he didn't.

Pat was particularly vile to Alan, accusing him of all sorts and refusing to listen to a word he said. I'd have sympathised about her being upset, but I couldn't when she was so utterly unreasonable in her accusations and behaviour.

Yes Alan did the right thing intend but initially he was engaging with him until he finally spoke to the bishop

perhaps people believing Rob’s little note was a lesson to Alan about how people like Rob operate

yes Pat was on the daft side but I put that down to bad sw and the need for drama. It was a stupid SL and when questioning a characters integrity I think it should be ignored (including Alan)

Alan is naive, to put it politely.

Pat has done the right thing. The reference is truthful and fair. She has been clear, straightforward and honest.

Lilian (who I do like) OTOH … talk about emotional immaturity!

If George gets blamed for Martha’s acting up I’m going to be even more irritated

her mum going off to rehab and drinking would have had the effect surely - with or without the dragging out of Alice not knowing the truth. Would it really be wise to let an alcoholic just out of rehab go back to normal with a 3 year old if it could be helped?

To be fair, Alice threw the brick in the drunken heat of the moment. Whereas the problem with George isn't so much that he decided to drive Alice home (a dumb, but understandable decision), but that he tried to frame Alice for the accident, and didn't fess up when it became clear how severe the consequences might be. What is more, he has form for letting others take the blame (Brad and the bench), although I don't think anyone other than Brad knows this. It's this underhandedness that I find particularly nasty.

Alice has said some vicious things when drunk. Unlike some, I don't think that necessarily in vino veritas, so I don't think she is revealing her true feelings. But certainly, the brakes come off, so she, being quite clever, knows exactly what to say to wound someone else deeply. But at least she's been contrite about it afterwards, and tried to make amends. Maybe George will get there, too.

In either case, I think a custodial sentence would be too much, and would make an already bad situation hard to salvage at all.

Trivium4all
To be fair, Alice threw the brick in the drunken heat of the moment.

And if that brick had happened to hit Susan on the head and crack her skull, or the glass from the broken window had gone into Susan's eyes and blinded her, would Alice having thrown the brick in the drunken heat of the moment have reduced that damage?

I don't think being drunk is an acceptable excuse for violent behaviour, and nor is "I was angry".

You could argue George was traumatised after his heroics and not thinking straight

or perhaps he had drunk too much cider and can blame it on the drink?

There’s a flaw in the ‘drank too much cider’ excuse. It’s the one thing he mustn’t say.

Traumatised, schmaumatised. His immediate instinct was to shift the blame; he then maintained the lie for months. I’m very much hoping he doesn’t get a suspended sentence.

It’s such a pity Alice won’t get a driving ban.

Yes. They have a strange approach to mentioning real places. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Schools: Adam went to Sherborne School, Debbie and Kate went to Cheltenham Ladies' College. Nobody else has as far as I can recall ever gone to a real school.

University: Adam - Newcastle, Debbie - Exeter+, Alice - Southampton, Ruth - Harper Adams, David - Cirencester, Helen - Reaseheath, Lily - Manchester+, Brenda - Bournemouth+, Lucy Perks - Nottingham+, Phoebe - Oxford. Ruairi went to an unnamed university in London. I think we were told that Jim taught at Stirling, which was very odd, as it doesn't have a Classics department. Everyone else has gone to Felpersham or nowhere.

+Dropped out or failed Finals. The completion rate for students from Ambridge is abysmal.

Both Alice and George have been spoilt and overindulged by their parents and had the consequences of their actions cushioned by others. Even though Kate has been indulged in many ways too, I think she had a point when she went off on one at Brian about it.

Golly. Brads uni talk was a bit PSA

and the yoghurt 🙄. Nice of Susan to take the fall

why would Poppy have done it?

interesting Tracey turned on family

george is so well acted - you can hear what the characters say they’re seeing. And Brad showed his non horrobinesqueness. Interesting George didn’t ask him for a reference

Golly. Brads uni talk was a bit PSA

It was very dull, although I fast forwarded most of it.

Pat, Susan, Emma, George and Brad (once he'd stopped droning on about uni) were excellent.

DH's comment was that since George's immediate reaction to being in a difficulty was to try to lie his way out of it and put the blame on someone else, DH would be very reluctant to employ him and would regard him as untrustworthy.